Just call BF and let him know what is going on. Be sure you don't warn your WH so that he and OW can spin a story. Hang in there, and expose. That will often end the problem.

Hi, everyone.

Just an update.

WH and I went out for dinner on NYE and it started out a little rough with me asking a question about OW and him rolling his eyes and saying "We aren't going to do this tonite are we?" I restrained myself bigtime after telling him at some point I will want some answers regarding this but that at the moment, he was right and we should just try to spend time together and enjoy the evening.

Had a very nice time, cuddled on a couch and ate Moroccan food. We shared some family memories and talked about our girls and how proud we were of them.

Then we returned to our house and visited with DD and her friends, hung out and watched a video (Superman). We stayed up to ring in the New Year and opened a bottle of champagne and shared a glass. We both were feeling very tired and WH asked if he could stay over and I said yes.

It was so nice to have him there and cuddle with him. About 2:30 a.m. I woke and up and, of course, the fear and anger start moving in and I began to cry. WH woke up and held me and said how sorry he was. One thing led to another and we ended up having SF. This was completely unplanned but anyway, it happened. I'm not sure how I feel about it. One the one hand, I thought it was wonderful but then I got the idea that perhaps he was doing this out of sympathy and just trying to make me feel better. I don't know.

I've noticed that one of the things that happens to a WS is you lose your sense of intuition and you don't trust your own feelings. After all, I start to think about how wrong I was before about our relationship and I don't trust myself anymore.

So the next day he left about lunch time and he came over again tonight.

I had checked his work email this afternoon and saw that he had forwarded a joke to several co-workers, including the OW. I immediately phoned him and he said it was an "oversight" or "unintentional" and he claimed he deleted that email from her inbox. Said he was sorry but I was very upset with him and let him know it. LBs for sure. But what the he//?

Anyway, we discussed this when he came over tonight and I reiterated my stand on no contact. He agreed (again!) Ended up talking for a couple of hours and it was a good talk with both of us bringing up observations and some past issues that we have been trying to work on after affair #1. Didn't really talk about present affair much.

He had to go back to his apartment but before he left I brought up the no contact letter. He agreed but also said he doesn't like me "telling him what to do" and has a real problem with that. I tried to make him understand the concept of no contact but I fear I sounded like a teacher speaking to her student and a little preachy. So, to make a lss, he will do the letter tomorrow night here at our house so I can read it before he sends it.

Also, phoned the OWBF today but there was no answer. Apparently they were coming back from holidays today but may not have been in yet.

Starting to waffle a bit on contacting OWBF. I am thinking that this will precipitate a phone call or visit to my WH from OW.

Could someone please tell me again why I should do this at this point in time? Just need a kick in the pants I guess.

Thanks,

Freya

Well at this point of time you need an ally to keep them apart. OW'sBF fits the bill for that. Additionally, if you didn't know your husband was having an affair, wouldn't you like someone to have enough compassion on you to tell you so you could protect yourself?

Orchid: That piece in bold? Hm.....very telling. This is the WS in him speaking. Don't take that guff. Instead learn to RB it into something positive for you. For example:

BS: Don't forget about that NC letter. You promised.

WS: I know but I don't like you telling me what to do. I have a real problem with that control thing you like t/d.

BS: Hm... really? Well the control I exercise is due to the love and protection our family MUST have. The WS in you isn't part of our family and so I understand why the WS in you doesn't like it. So it is best if you tell the WS to check himself out at the curb, because the WS is NOT welcomed in our home. Can YOU control that or does someone have to help you?

WS: Hm.... not sure.

BS: Hm..... (do NOT give any response. He needs to wonder what you are thinking).


Orchid: As for calling the OWBF, that's to help you keep tabs. Remember there is NO trust right now. Let's say worst case scenario, OW calls the WS. Can you handle it? I mean really, you know they are gonna talk.....so what?

Exposure alone has diffused the A. Let them talk.....their tongues will get all twisted and maybe they will LB each other! LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Be smart! Think ahead of their game. Do NOT allow yourself to be undermined by their A. U R better than them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

take care,

L.

Thanks for the input from everyone.

This is the latest:

WH was here for a couple of hours helping me remove Christmas tree and had supper together, just the two of us.

I had talked to SH earlier in the day and WH was apparently supposed to do an "exercise" with me, letting me know what led him to make the choice to have another affair. (SH and WH talked last week). Whenever this is brought up, WH keeps saying he doesnt know why he made this choice or what really happened, etc. I told WH about my session with SH and he became defensive but said he would talk about this issue after we ate. Meanwhile, he is finding lots of little odd jobs to keep him pre-occupied and finally sat down with me at 7:45. to "talk".

Said he "doesn't buy" SH's take on how an affair happens. Feels like we are both towing the Harley party line, etc. He is different than any other WS, etc. I tried to ignore his foggy talk as best I could but he clearly was not interested in examining this issue. Then he admitted he is not sure he still wants to come home and that being away is good for him.

I feel that he has now the best of both worlds. He spends a lot of time with me and our two DDs, eats meals with us, hangs around and watches movies and does all the fun stuff. When I try to initiate a conversation of any substance (trying to avoid LBs) he gets very uncomfortable and wants to leave to go to his own place. Great for him but not so great for me.

I know this is part of the plan to show WH all the good things about our family and me, but I cannot stand to hear this crap coming out of his mouth! I admit I'm not doing a great job of avoiding LBs, angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements but honestly, I'm starting to feel my resolve slipping. I just want to vent to someone so here I am.

Is he completely delusional? I have never wanted to slap someone so badly as I have felt in the last two days. How much more can I endure?

On a more positive note, WH did email the no contact letter to OW. (rather reluctantly, I might add). Also, I'm still trying to get a hold of OWBF by phone but they do not answer their calls. I have blocked my number so they do not know it is me. Anyway, I shall keep trying.

In the meantime, I am in a holding pattern for now, but I pray that God gives me the strength to keep going.

Freya

vent here = good

Perfect time to get ready to plan B. You don't want to be lulled into settling for this stage for life.

The WS is dragging his feet whether he will admit it or not....some WS' don't fully realize what azzez they are being but the title still sticks.

Notice I said get ready for plan B. You will find you tolerate less now so his recovery gap will widen unless you allow him to show his stuff. This means no pampering an Xws.

L.

Hello all,

Here is the latest. WH came over last night and spent the evening with our DD. I was working late so they had supper together and watched a movie. I joined them and WH was very friendly and laughing with daughter, etc.

I didn't say too much but we cuddled on the couch and held hands. When he left, he was really sweet and very affectionate with lots of hugs and kisses.

This morning I finally got a hold of OWBF on phone and was able to fill him in on the situation. Of course, he did not know anything about an affair. No surprise that she lied when she promised to tell him the truth. Anyway we have exchanged phone numbers and he will stay in touch but will be having it out with her tonight. He was overall, grateful I had called.

Anyway, met WH for lunch and I asked him if he had heard from OW. He admitted that she had called him and told him I was in touch with her BF. She was quite upset. Anyway I asked husband what about no contact letter which he sent two nights ago. He got mad and said "don't tell me what to do" and "it's not that simple" and "it's always your way or the highway", etc. etc. I was livid and threatened to leave the restaurant. It was apparent he has no intention of stopping seeing OW and/or talking with her.

To make a lss, I said that I would no longer see him or talk with him, that he would be out of my life, as his actions and choices continue to twist the knife in my gaping wound. It was an unpleasant scene, to say the least, but I felt I could not back down from the no contact stance and he was clearly not going to comply.

He dropped me off and I told him he was now free and on his own.

I'm sure he immediately phoned OW to tell her of his horrible encounter with the shrill, angry, and controlling wife. BOO HOO. I am still furious with him.

I realize that I may be getting 2X4's for major LBs but it is obvious to me that he still wants his cake and eat it too. I will not tolerate his lying and betrayals any longer.

When I got home after work, I informed my two DDs that it was my intention to not have anything to do with WH because of his continued lying which is killing me. They were very supportive (they are 21 and 19) and were very upset with their father for also lying to them. He had promised them he was finished with OW and not contacting her in any way.

DD (21 years old) immediately phoned her father and said she would no longer be involved in his life and expressed her anger, disappointment and hurt to him. They talked for awhile but she hung up very angry because he was apparently spouting the same crap to her that he said to me at lunch.

WH was very upset and pleaded with DD to not cut him out of her life. She said that is just the way it is right now. I did not put words in her mouth (he accused her of this) but he does not understand how fiercely protective of me my girls are. They clearly see him as being in the wrong. Unfortunately, DD is returning to college on Sunday, so she will not be seing her Dad before she leaves. That just breaks my heart as I know how much she loves him and how much he loves her. This is just a testament to the addictive power of an affair; that he is basically choosing OW over his relationship with DDs. The other DD will not even talk to him right now.

So..... that is my sad story today. Not totally unexpected but still is breaking my heart that we have come to this point.

Could really use some words of encouragement. Thanks.


Freya

Well, not quite according to the MB plan, but that is alright. Good on you. Exposure is the best way to put an end to the affair. I'm surprised your husband wasn't angrier, but maybe he just hid it.

Don't worry, the next couple of days are going to be h*ll for both your husband and the OW.

I'm sure you will be hearing from him again. Go buy some popcorn, and sit back and watch the show.

You exposed more than to OW's BF, you showed up the WS as he is. He doesn't like everyone knowing he is a WS so his WS claws extend and he lashes out at you and even his own children.

See why he isn't your H and dad right now?

I don't see you as LBing, I see you as seeing things as they are and protecting you and your children.

The ride w/b rough but not as much if you had laid yourself out there t/b trampled on.

You did fine. Go hug your children (no matter how old they are). Thank them for being a part of your support group and give them your support along with reassurance you will NOT lose your mind like a WS. If you ever do, they have YOUR permission to knock some sense into you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Read up on Love must be Tough by Dobson. ID your bondaries and get your plan B in order along with your finances.

Expect the OW and WS to try to rile you all up. Then step away when they lunge at you and your family. Reverse babble and other tools help.

take care,
L.

Well, the battle goes on here.

As someone here pointed out you must enter into Plan B with a well laid out plan and proper preparation. In my anger on Friday, I did not do that and let anger get the better part of me.

I realized very soon after that I was not ready to go to Plan B. That is, I have nothing in place regarding finances and arrangements for our shared life and getting prepared to be separate. It was simply not going to work without preparations.

DD (21 years old) was leaving for college on Sunday and WH had contacted her a couple of times over weekend to ask if he could come to airport. She said an adamant "NO!" Meanwhile WH became very upset with me because he felt I was involving our two DDs in our problems. Is he kidding me??? I did no such thing; THEY ARE ALREADY INVOLVED thanks to him. I felt that she was doing this more on my behalf and saw the pain that she was suffering because of it. After all my WH has done to this family, she still loves her Dad so much so I suggested that he come to airport to say goodbye. So he came and it was okay. I think my daughter was very happy to have him there in the end, as it was a painful thought to leave town for months and not say goodbye or see him. He seemed very grateful for this.

I talked to him very briefly and it was fairly civil. Today (Monday) he phoned me and we arranged to meet for dinner. One of the reasons I decided to alter my Plan B was because I did not want to leave WH with the lasting impression before implementation of an angry, resentful and hateful woman ( which is what I portrayed to him on Friday). I want him to remember me more as the kind and loving and faithful wife who is capable of compassion and comfort.

He was actually rather hesitant about meeting for supper as he didn't want another scene in a restaurant. As it was, we had a very nice time and then he came over for a hot tub. It was awkward at times, but I made it through. I felt he was wary of me and my actions.

OWBF phoned me today and we talked for a long time. As expected he had more information and it turns out my WH started affair with OW in July and not in November as he had stated. I was absolutely not surprised by this and it makes much more sense than the story my WH had been telling.

I will not push the issue now, but one day I will certainly want the truth from him. Right now, WH is very wary around me, waiting for the axe to fall or something. I can understand this and I am trying to do more of a Plan A for now.

As it turns out, I feel I have a real ally in OWBF. He talked about how he and OW have decided to work on their relationship and are planning a trip in February. He has been hurt deeply, of course, but seems to want to keep her in his life. She has apparently stated that she wants to work on their relationship too but who really knows. Meanwhile, I will keep my eyes and ears open and OWBF and I have promised to keep in touch and let eachother know if we find out anything.


I really feel that I am all over the place and struggling with putting together a cohesive plan. It is quite the rollercoaster ride. The anger I feel at times is beyond description.

So, WH and I have agreed to meet later in the week. Meanwhile, he has not seen DD (19 years old) for the better part of a week and she is still very upset with him. His response to that is "she needs her space" so he has backed off completely from wanting to see her. I don't know if she sees it like he does. Right now, she refuses to talk about the entire situation but does say simply "I hate him!"

If anyone has some tips on how to get through this next little bit while trying to Plan A and WH who is living in another place, please, please let me know. I want to give him room to breathe but at the same time, I want to connect with him in a positive way. I have read "Love Must be Tough" by Dobson and he does suggest the cage door must be opened.

Meanwhile, I pray to avoid LBs and try my hardest to be more affectionate and loving. Why is this so hard?

Freya

I have come to the conclusion that it's so hard because ...
IT GOES AGAINST EVERY SELF PROTECTIVE CELL IN MY BODY!!!!!

My human self wants revenge, wants to do a Lizzie Borden on them both!

Its hard because not only are we so deeply wounded, but they apply fresh wounds on top of wounds every time they lie... They are so stinking entitled, and we are the ones trying to keep the ship from sinking...

not only do we fight Them... we have to fight ourselves too... otherwise we would all be in jail right now....

Hi.... just a quick update.

WH and I met for lunch on Wednesday. It was again, very pleasant and friendly. WH seemed quite distracted and talked a lot about his work situation which is very stressful for him right now. I tried to listen and not offer too many comments. It was cordial. I made sure that I was not early and waiting at the restaurant. He was late as usual and I made sure I wasn't sitting around waiting for him.

We did not make any arrangements for the rest of the week as I have work obligations. He spent Wednesday evening with his sister and then tonite with sister and our DD(19), they went out for supper. WH dropped DD off at home and came into the house to say hello to me but I wasn't home from work yet (I work late every Thursday).

Anyway, I'm feeling a bit low as WH has not called or emailed me at all today. I'm trying to keep busy so I am not waiting around for his calls. So far it is working pretty good, but it does hurt that he doesn't want to talk to me.

I have been trying to picture myself alone in the future and a life without WH. Sometimes I just feel this is all so hopeless. I desperately want to work out our problems but he seems quite distant these past few days. It is hard to keep positive in the face of indifference. I have no idea what he is feeling or thinking.

Dr H did advise me to spend a lot of time with WH but he clearly does not want this right now and keeps saying he needs space to "think" and "sort things out". Should I push for more visits or dates or just let him be for awhile. I have not called him since Monday.


Does he miss me and our life together or is he thinking he is now free of me and ready to start over again? I feel like he just doesn't want to be around me or this family right now.

What should I do now or should I just be patient and wait to see what happens? Should I call him or wait till he calls me?

Freya

Freya, I can't explain his behavior because I don't know if he is still in touch with the OW or not. If contact has ended, then he may be in withdrawal. If not, then his distance is self evident.

I would work on ATTRACTING him back rather than chasing him. Make yourself a PLEASANT alternative in contrast to the OW. I know the thought is galling, but that is how he is viewing this. So when you lovebust him, it makes the OW look good. Just look for opportunities to draw him back.

It is Saturday night and I am sitting here with tears running down my cheeks because I am feeling so hurt right now. I ask myself, what did I do to deserve this WH? Why is this happening to me?

I last saw WH on Wednesday when we met for lunch. Everything seemed fine when we parted. It was pleasant and cordial. No talk of marriage or recovery, etc. He did not call so I left it until Friday afternoon when I left voice mail for him on his cellphone to call me regarding business matters. (we own rental properties). Normally, he calls me fairly soon afterward. Anyway, he never called and finally after another call this morning he FINALLY called backed. I found this so frustrating and excruciating. I simply wanted to talk with him about business but he was clearly avoiding my calls and refusing to call back.

After talking with him, he said he just couldn't handle talking to me as he felt "overwhelmed" with everything. Anyway, he came over for dinner with DD and me this evening then we watched a movie. Everything was fine and he seemed relaxed for the most part. I asked him what was up with him not calling me back and he visibly tensed. I simply cannot understand him.

He says he feels suffocated by me and that I am "choking" him. This really is difficult to hear. I have been reading Dobson's "Love Must be Tough" and this has helped me try and understand his viewpoint but he seems really oversensitive to any questions right now. This is absolutely excruciating to me. I do not pepper him with questions on a daily basis but even a whiff of any questioning lately, sends him into a tailspin. What am I to do???? Just sit here and pretend he didn't have a 2 year affair and in recovery from that first affair, start another affair with OW#2?????

Am I just to let it all go so he can "find" himself and have all the time in the world to decide what choices to make regarding us? In the meantime, here I sit, stewing in resentment, anger and loneliness.

Somebody let me out of this insane asylum. There is only so much I can take.

We talked tonite about how often we should see eachother during separation. He said he thought we should see one another about 2 times a week "at the most". Dr. H has meanwhile advised me to spend at least 15 hours a week with WH. I cannot force him to see me more often but I fear that by the time he feels like spending more time with me, any feeling for him on my part will be greatly diminished or gone.

He is definitely feeling "trapped". Is it time to throw in the towel and just give up?

I have tried to make our limited time together this week as pleasant as possible, but he is sorely testing my resolve.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom?

Freya

BS(me) 50
WH 48
EA/PA Dec/03-Jan/06
DD#1 April 1/06
False Recovery
EA/PA July/06-Dec/06(with OW#2)
DD#2 (with OW#2) Dec 17/06
WH left home Dec 17/06 (at my request)

Does this tactic seem to be ATTRACTING him or PUSHING HIM AWAY?

Let me ask this another way, Freya, because it is important for you to get this.

If you are HIM, which would you prefer to be around:

A. angry, demanding wife who constantly erupts into challenges and questions, ie: "WHAT IS UP WITH NOT CALLING ME BACK??"

B. loving, accepting OW who is GLAD to see him and full of admiration and praise

ML:

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate your thoughts.

Of course, you are 100% right. I must stop LBing him when he is around. I feel like a split personality lately. On one side I know what I have to do to ATTRACT him and to make our time together pleasant. Then suddenly I feel the overwhelming desire to show him my anger and resentment because he continues to hurt me.

I realize that ultimately this will be very unhelpful so I am working on zipping my lip and being loving and accepting the WHOLE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> time we are together.

I will come here and vent and hopefully you wonderful people will listen to my meanderings and various outbursts.

Acknowledging receipt of 2X4's. Thanks!!!

Freya

Freya,

I have been reluctant to post here, as you are getting such great advice, and I have not much to add, just my support.

I remember the early days after my WH's first affair; they were AWFUL...I was so angry and deeply hurt, and LB'd all over the place. I hadn't found MB, and was twisting in the wind. You are lucky to have found this place, in your second bout, and I hope it helps you to find your way...

We all know how difficult it is to go against the 'fight or flight' response and force yourself to love and be pleasant in the face of such an A$$...hang in there, come HERE to vent, not to him...

Freya, believe me, I understand, I really do! I did much worse that this, I beat my H up and he had to run to the police station for protection! But...all I did was push him into the arms of the OW. REAL SMART! [he is still with her today, btw. This was my LAST marriage]

When you feel the urge to lovebust him, ask yourself this: DO I FEEL LIKE HELPING THE OW TODAY? Because that is what you are doing when you lovebust him. You make HER look good! You help the HO-BAG, not yourself!

There will be a time when relationship talks are very appropriate. That time will come in RECOVERY. You are not quite there yet because he has not really ended the affair and is still in a deep FOG. He should be viewed as a FALLING DOWN DRUNK right now, and you will get NOWHERE having relationship talks with a falling down drunk.

In the meantime, concentrate on being ATTRACTIVE. In every interaction, ask yourself if you would find yourself ATTRACTIVE. You CAN control that desire to lovebust him, you really can. Especially when you know it only shoots YOU in the foot.

Many thanks to all who have read my thread and posted here.

It helps so much to hear from you all and also to read others' stories.

In particualar, I just read "in Pain"'s thread and am so worried about her. I felt the same sense of panic when I found out about the second affair while supposedly in recovery. I have been reading "Love Must be Tough" and this has helped so much. Especially in my WHs case it really seems to fit. He has stated many times the feeling of "being trapped" and "suffocating", etc.

I also know that this could mean he is still in contact with OW but I have no way of really knowing this. I have been in contact with OWBF today and he reports that they are doing very well. Spending lots of time together and she has re-commited to the relationship. Sounds like he has done a good job of avoiding LBs and angry outbursts, etc. So, I don't know about contact or not. Remember WH has been kicked out of house and now lives in an apartment.

We had lunch with our DD(19) together yesterday which went fairly well. WH gave me a big hug and kiss when he arrived at restaurant and seemed really glad to see us. I did have some bad feelings as the restaurant was one where he used to meet the OW#1. I thought it would be okay but it did bother me. I phoned him later and shared my feelings with him in, I hope, a nonconfrontational way. He said he understood and apologized.

Most of our conversation centred around DD and her problems regarding her chosen field of study and her anxiety. We are both on the same page as far as that is concerned and we have always been very much in agreement on these kind of issues. Also lots of conversation about his new job and how much he is struggling there. He cannot concentrate or sleep and is falling behind already. I care but also feel that these are his problems alone to sort out.

I am feeling better and stronger and more confident. I know that I will be okay, no matter what. I still have fear and insecurities but I can face the fact that he must make up his own mind about his future and make choices accordingly. This is somewhat liberating to let go of that part of it. I can no longer try and "control" his thoughts and feelings. It has helped gain perspective by having him out of the house and not seeing him every day, as painful as that was.

So, right now we are not seeing or talking to eachother that much (3 times a week or so). In the meantime, I am working on me and keeping very busy.

He will attend DD's birthday party this weekend and in fact, seemed surprised that I made a point of inviting him. He seemed to be thinking "but of course I will be at the birthday party, she is my daughter and I want to be there". So goes the mind of a WH, I guess.

In the meantime, he has been quite affectionate when we meet and loving towards me. I wonder if he is just trying to make me feel better or is there any truth or honesty in how he appears to be treating me. On the other hand any question or discussion of affair, marriage, relationship and he recoils. So I will avoid that type of thing for now.

Also, am planning a trip to Mexico with my DD in February. It is just something to look forward to and also good for DD who is often sad these days.

Marching on and surviving is my motto now.
Would be interested in any feedback that you may have. Thanks!!

Freya