Freya, that sounds very good. Good job on holding your tongue! See, you can hold back the lovebusters if you really want!

I think the next step will be to work on WOOING him back and showing him that you are an attractive alternative. He needs to know that he can fall in love with you. Find out what it was that attracted him to the OW. What do you think it was? You need to find this key and work on attracting him back so he can ENVISION a happy future with you where he is in love.

Go take a peak at LilSis's thread and see all the things she is doing to attract her husband and see if you get any ideas. And keep in mind that many of the things she is doing are COUNTERINTUITIVE, so keep a very open mind!

Thanks ML.

I know that one of my WH most important emotional need was admiration. I have tried hard to work on that one but I do try. I just got the book "Falling in Love, Staying in Love from W. Harley so I am very eager to read it.

Also SF was big on WH list of important needs. That one was a real struggle. As of this year, WH and I had NOT had SF for about 6 years! He sighted various prostate problems (for which he was seeing a urologist) and then wouldn't discuss anything about it. I went through various stages of prying, pleading, ignoring and finally denial about the whole thing.

Also, over the marriage I gained 80 lbs. I always kept myself well in spite of my weight so I convinced myself it was okay. WH was always very complimentary and everything and never told me what he was really feeling about the extra weight. Turns out during this summer's counselling he admitted it was a MAJOR problem for him. He no longer found me attractive sexually. In my quest to work on our recovery, I started a dr. supervised diet and have now lost 65 lbs.!! He has been very happy with this and has given me a ton of encouragement and compliments and support. We resumed an intimate sexual relationship in about October/06 and it was greatly improving our relationship. Meanwhile, of course, he was involved with OW. Our intimate relationship really started to improve very quickly and it was during this time November, December, that WH stated he was feeling extremely ambivalent about OW.

Anyway, I continue on my diet plan and feel very good about my hard work and starting to feel great about me doing something for me. He did notice.

I have read LS's thread and have been most impressed with her tenacity and creativeness. It is great inspiration for the rest of us.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Freya

P.s. reading this over, I can't believe I was in such a state of denial that I allowed myself to believe that not having an intimate sexual relationship with your husband was okay and "normal".

Freya,

I say treat every moment you see WH like OPPOSITE DAY, be pleasant, be provocative, strut your stuff, but be aloof.

Remember what types of signals you sent with your body to attract him in the first place; the slight touches, throwing your head back to laugh, smiling eyes, killer laugh. Do those things, and when you get home, if he's said something to try and deter you or hurt you, THEN cater to your wounds...brush off and start again. It's DANG hard to do; I know I failed miserably at that (I hadn't found MB during WH's affair, I was a heap of MESS)...

If he brings issues up, practice reverse babble, and use Blah Blah Blah in place on nonsensicle Wayward talk...

Freya, what about some hoochie mama clothes?? Have you updated your wardrobe since you lost the weight? Do you have sexy, attractive clothes? What about hair and makeup? Perfume?

I guess what we're all getting at is PULL OUT THE STOPS...

Victoria's Secret underbritches? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all the great suggestions about wooing WH back. I must say that I have actually done a lot of what has been suggested. After I lost the weight and am looking pretty good (if I don't say so myself), I have indulged in lots of pretty lingerie and WH has definitely noticed and given me lots of positive comments and compliments.

Remember, though, this is my second time around, this is currently affair #2. I believe he started this affair right after the first one or possibly even before first one was finished (Jan/06). He has not come clean with details. This is the current situation:

WH is living in his own apartment and I have seen him about 2 or 3 times a week in the past two weeks. We separated on Dec 17. This weekend I had company visiting---his cousin and her husband and their baby who is our godchild. We also celebrated DD (20)'s birthday on Saturday night. He was invited and really wanted to be here for the visit and the birthday party. In fact, he spent Friday night, all day and the evening Saturday and came back today to have lunch with us all before the company left. His mood was very happy and outgoing Friday night, quite quiet and withdrawn Saturday and pretty quiet today. He has been very affectionate and friendly towards me -- i.e. lots of hugs and touches and telling how great I looked, etc.

While this is all good, it does leave me wondering WTH! Another thing that happened is I checked his jacket pocket and found an expensive pen which is obviously a gift from OW; I'm guessing an Xmas gift. I took him aside on Saturday afternoon and asked him in a calm voice whether he and OW exchanged xmas gifts. He said no and then I said please tell the truth and he said she gave him a bottle of wine and a bottle of expensive Scotch. Then he said what possible relevance does this have to our situation and I felt my anger starting to rise. I tried hard to keep calm and then asked him a few more questions about what he got her and he said non of your business and I could see he was starting to get mad so I dropped it. Meanwhile I took the pen and kept it.

Later on that afternoon he seemed distant and rather upset and I'm guessing he checked his pocket and found the pen missing. At first I felt bad and then I thought, WTH!!! How dare he bring into our house a gift from OW. I feel completely justified in taking it. He continues to lie about contact with her but insists that the relationship is over. I believe that the PA is over but the EA is still ongoing. I believe this because I have been in constant contact with OWBF and he told me Friday, that they (OW & WH)talked again last Tuesday and she re-iterated to my WH that the affair was over and she was moving on with her life. OWBF says that they are getting along great and they are planning a trip together for 1 month starting Feb 20/07. To which I say, "hallelujah". WH still doesn't believe that talking with OW is a bad thing.

Anyway, he is going for 2 counselling sessions this week and hopes that will help him "see things more clearly" and that he needs to "work on himself". In the meantime, I have tried to be pleasant and attractive and to quit LBing. It's getting easier but the whole xmas gift exchange really upset me. Is he really that dumb??? I know that is a rhetorical question LOL.

Anyway we plan to get together this week and "talk". I will try and be pleasant and be more supportive of WH. I believe he is in severe withdrawl now and I know I need to show him I can be forgiving and that I truly care for him.

I am talking with SH tomorrow so we can put together a plan.

What would be a reasonable time frame for me to ask WH for more details about affair or should I just forget about it for now.

Was I right in taking the pen from him. (He doesn't officially know I have it but I assume he's guessing I took it).

Freya

It probably wasn't right to take the pen, but who cares? It sounds like things are going fairly well. I'm sure SH will have a plan of when to talk, and what to say.

Good job on putting the run on the affair.

Just a quick update about appointment with SH.

He really wants to talk to WH and I together. I will wait till I see him again to run that ever so carefully by him. I think he will feel I am trying to "push" him into something he's not sure he wants to do. But anyway, I'll try.

SH says husband needs to have a different belief system and that WH present belief system is flawed. (i.e. He believes that he can never be happy or in love with me, the mother of his children). Of course, SH says that his is indeed very possible if WH would agree to accept that this would be possible and then commit to a plan to make it happen.

I believe he is completely right in that WH doesn't believe that can ever happen..... that too much has gone on, that we are too damaged, that I am not the person for him, etc. etc. I think he is still in fog/withdrawl.

I met WH for supper last night and on SH's suggestion, I returned the pen to WH that he received from OW. He just stared at it for a long time and I apologized for taking it from his jacket pocket. I told him that I also thought it was a very poor move on his part to bring ANYTHING into our house that OW has given him and to please not do it again.I told him it was his to do what he wanted and to dispose of it if and when he is ready. He put it in his pocket and then said he accepted my apology and thanked me. Apparently he is going to keep it but I wasn't surprised.

We had a pleasant evening and we talked about his upcoming counseling appt. today. I hope he will let me know how it went. I will be seeing him tomorrow evening for DD's birthday dinner. He seemed very relaxed and was very chatty when he saw that I wasn't going to ask a bunch of uncomfortable questions. I still want answers but they will have to wait.

Right now I am operating on the assumption that contact is still going on and will deal with him as a WH still engrossed in the A. In the meantime trying hard not to LB and make demands or get angry.

It is amazing what a difference that makes with him. SH said I should continue to be try and spend time with WH and it is not time to do a Plan B which could be counter productive.

When I start to think of all the betrayals and lies of WH my blood starts to really boil but I know I cannot express this in an angry way because it will push WH even further away. So wish me luck tomorrow night and pray for me that I will hold my tongue. That is so hard for me!!!


Freya

HOLD YOUR TONGUE! There, I said it...

I'm happy that you have spoken with SH. I've seen many instances here where, once SH, has a first or second talk with a wayward, they start to turn around and look at their path. Hopefully, you will get there, too.

I understand the pen thing, and it's good that you gave it back. In the future, just be honest and bring the problem to light as soon as possible, instead of resorting to taking something that is not yours... (I don't blame you, though, I prolly would have done the same...)

Work that Plan A...

You really are doing well; I know it doesn't seem like it, but this whole A is tough on you, it's done more damage to you than almost anything else can or will...This is Why Plan A is not forever, so do it well, while it's a go...(personally, I don't think I did a very good PLAN A initially, not until I found MB)

Well, my WH had his first counselling session and overall he said it went well. He didn't share a lot of details with me but did mention that he asked her about MB and she had never heard of it. Then he showed her the no contact letter I had asked him to write to OW. She said it "was completely inapproriate" so I am not happy to hear that.

My WH likes her though, and doesn't mind that she doesn't subscribe to MB principles. I can't do anything about but just support the fact that he is trying to get help. Hopefully, he will be able to gain insight inspite of her lack of knowledge about MB. I keep my fingers crossed.

We went out for dinner for DD (20) birthday and it was very nice. WH was very happy to be included and we were remembering the day she was born and sharing stories and memories. At one point WH looked very emotional and hung his head down for a few seconds. I thought he was going to cry. He continued to talk about times when the girls were very small and said how great those years were.

He also seemed to get a little drunk very quickly. I had to drive him back to his apartment. He phoned after we got home and was very nostalgic and muttering about how much he loves the girls and saying he is drinking too much and must quit doing that.

We ended by saying bye I love you to eachother. I take it as a sign that he is struggling with being away from the house and missing that connection with the girls and perhaps, me too. But he also said last night that he does not feel any better about things and needs more time.

So that's the latest. I am going away this weekend and he is coming over to stay with our DD so I hope that goes well and if he is here it may remind him of all that he is missing at home.

Freya

Just an update on my situation

WH will not agree to speak to SH so that is a disappointment but I will not push it.

This weekend I went away to visit an old friend and it was great. I had a lot of fun and a lot of laughs. It was comforting and a release. We didn't talk about my WH or the affair that much which was also a good break.

We went out together with some other girls and acted silly and went to the local pub. It made me feel good when I was getting attention from other guys and also lots of compliments from old friends I hadn't seen in a long time.

Anyway, also did some retail therapy which is always a great distraction and fun.

WH stayed with DD(20) overnight so she wouldn't have to be alone. We talked briefly when I returned on Sunday night. He seemed okay but let me know he is "extremely busy" this week at work and didn't know if he had time to get together with me. This ticked me off. He has a way of making me feel very insignificant sometimes. Like I am a bother to him. He certainly doesn't want to spend time with me, he has made that clear.

His attitude makes me think the affair is still going on. As far as I know last contact was 2 weeks ago. I talked to OWBF and he said everything was going really good there. She is going to counselling and feeling better about their relationship (i.e. her and her boyfriend). I warned him to keep his guard up. I don't know what is going on with my WH. He still claims "confusion" and "not sure about things" etc. Makes me crazy but I try hard not to LB all over him.

This is what I know for sure:

He does not want to move back home.
He does not want to talk about the affair, our R or M.
He is starting IC (going to second appt this week).
He seems unconcerned about our girls.
He seems indifferent to me.

Should I just continue seeing him a few times a week and making it a positive experience, inviting him to family get togethers now and again or what?

Your input or comments would be appreciated.


Freya

BS(Me)50
WH (48)
DD(20), DD(21)
Married 23 years
Affair #1 Nov/03 - Jan/06
Dday #1 April 1/06
False Recovery
Affair with OW#2 ?/06-Jan/07
Dday #2 Dec 17/06
WH asked to leave home Dec 17/06
Contact continues ???

Yes, continue making a good life for yourself, and hopefully he will join you. It does sound like there is some kind of contact, which is not unusual, so watch for it.

And watch those other men. I know what it is like to be suddenly noticed after being treated like a piece of furniture for so long.

Well here is the latest.

WH and I have not seen eachother or talked since Tuesday night when he came over for supper.

It was fairly pleasant with no LBs but I did ask WH when we could have an opportunity to talk about the affair, like when it started and what was going on with him at that particular time. I'm especially interested to know since we were apparently in recovery and doing pretty well.

I suggested we set up a time limit to the conversation and make sure we did not get angry with eachother during the conversation and if things started getting heated up we would rebook another time for the discussion. He thought this would be okay.

Well he went to his counsellor on Thursday and he told her about our conversation. She suggested I write down the questions and he bring them to her so she can preview them.
Apparently she said some questions I might have may be "inappropriate" and she wants to see them first. I find this unbelievable. It seems like she is trying to "protect" him or something from me. Give me a break! I certainly don't intend on asking what her privates look like and if she gave him good oral sex, etc. I just want to know when the affair started, where they met, what gifts were exchanged, etc. Is this asking too much?

His counselor sounds like an idiot to me and she absolutely does not subscribe to the principles on MB.

Can anyone help me with "appropriate" questions???

What should I do now. We plan to meet tonight for what I'm not sure. Help!!!

Freya

I would write out the questions and let her review them.

Why is he going to IC instead of MC?

Thanks, believer.

I guess I will write them out and let him take the questions to her and get her stamp of approval.

He will not answer any questions until she looks at the list first.

WH is going to IC to "work on myself" as he likes to say. He is absolutely not interested in MC as he is "not sure" he wants to stay in marriage yet. He says he needs time to figure out what he wants. This is the maddening part for me. Meanwhile, here I sit twiddling my thumbs waiting for him to make a decision about our marriage or not.

This is really hard to endure. However, I am trying to keep busy, work on myself and make plans for fun and laughs with my girls and my friends.

That is all you can do - make a good life for your family.

While running the questions through the counselor is rather annoying, I don't see any harm in it. It shows that you are cooperative, and you will get some answers.

WH came over last night and seemed quite happy to see me inspite of my feeling reluctance on his part earlier on in the day when we arranged to go to a movie together.

Our DD was here also so we didn't get into anything regarding the questions, etc. On the way to the theater, I asked WH if he was still okay with going out as he seemed rather reluctant. He shrugged his shoulders and said it was "okay". He seemed unconcerned and indifferent either way. So.... I told him his seeming indifference and lack of concern about our marriage was hurtful. He instantly got angry and said he was turning the car around if I insisted on "talking". He said he wouldn't answer any questions without first checking with his counsellor.

Well, as usual, my anger started to get the better of me and I asked him if he really did want a divorce or what was his plan. We were both angry and I admit, I LBed all over the place (again). I just want to kick my own a$$!!!. Why do I let everything get out of hand so quickly.

I have been reading some really great threads and all the fantastic Plan A's that others are doing and then when I look at my sitch, I feel so very lacking in discipline. I have just felt really angry towards WH these past few weeks when there has not been much contact between us.

I certainly don't want to stop seeing WH altogether because then I won't be doing a Plan A at all, but moving into Plan B. Just don't know what to do now. I feel drained.

Anyway, after we argued, we pulled it together somewhat and decided to watch a video at our house instead. We both felt drained and were fairly quiet. I think WH was worried about me. He held my hand and cuddled with me on the couch, made the popcorn, etc. When he left he hugged me close for a long time and then apologized for putting me through this and said I did not deserve this. I also apologized for losing my temper with him and he said he understood.

So, another step backward but he also reiterated that he would answer my questions regarding the affair if I felt it would help me get resolution. I agreed. I am in the process of formulating the questions now.

Hope this works. In the meantime, I am going to absolutely, 100%, unequivocally, BE STILL.

Thanks, SilentLucidity, Lil Sis and all who are an inspiration to us here on MB. Also thanks to those who have posted on my thread to offer support and advice. You have my undying gratitude,(especially, Believer).

Freya, didn't you tell me you are counseling with the Harleys? I want to give you something to consider. I believe that some people are cut out for Plan A and others are not. I would place myself in the latter category and i suspect this is where you belong too.

If you think you cannot do Plan A, I would suggest you go to Plan B before you cause even more damage. I know that with my personality, I would cause more harm more than good in Plan A, so I would be skating right into Plan B.