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I didn't need to respond. A few other have responded back to her already and they copy me on it. Here is the most recent one:
***Keep things in perspective. This is obviously an attempt to try to hurt you emotionally.
Please do not overreact or become angry because it will only cause you to do something regrettable. As I told you before, I have lived through this nightmare and I understand what you are going through. Whether she sees your change or not, I have. Your friends here at work know you are not the same as you were 2 months ago. Heck, we could all learn something from you. Keep your focus where you have it and she will regret her decision. Trust me on that. You are growing in the Lord, we all see that and respect it, and know your heart is in the right place. God will handle this for your good because of your stand. When all else fails, Just Stand.
I have known you since you were a very small child and we have been friends ever since. I love you like my son and I am praying for you.
Friend

PS: What you said to that truck driver the other day was amazing. I bet he has not stopped thinking about that statement.


Me-34 (BS) W-33 (WW) DD-7 Married 3/28/1992 DDay 8/4/06 Seperated 8/18/06 Plan A Start 1/4/07 **A Warrior does not give up on what he Loves, he finds the Love in what he does.**
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pHB, chicagodad is going through a lot of stuff very similar to what you are going through. You might be helped if your read through his thread. He's just a bit further along than you, but you are only a couple weeks behind. Insight into what is going on is really helpful, or at least it was for me.

SD


BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04

***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
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pHB, chicagodad is going through a lot of stuff very similar to what you are going through. You might be helped if your read through his thread. He's just a bit further along than you, but you are only a couple weeks behind. Insight into what is going on is really helpful, or at least it was for me.

SD

I will take a look thanks.


Me-34 (BS) W-33 (WW) DD-7 Married 3/28/1992 DDay 8/4/06 Seperated 8/18/06 Plan A Start 1/4/07 **A Warrior does not give up on what he Loves, he finds the Love in what he does.**
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"There once was a girl who had been in a marriage for the past 15 years of her life. She done everything for this man. She maintained the vehicles, she cut the grass, she kept the house in order, she did all research to be able to have children and when they couldn't have children, she persued adoption by herself! All this man had to do was sign papers. She went to court alone for these children, she spoke to birth parents alone for these children that she so desired! She dealt with all social workers and persons involved. These people knew her but had not yet met or spoke to her husband. This wife did all reasearch to buy homes for this family, all he had to do again was be there to sign papers. When they needed a car and could not afford a new one, this wife researched and bought alone a wrecked vehicle.

Once again this man did not have to pick up a phone and call one person, nor did he have to pick up a part or call about a part for this car. The wife did it all without a THANK YOU! This wife did alot of things for this man including encouraging him to go to his grandparents house every Sunday for lunch for the past 15 years because all his family would be there and she knew how much they wanted him to be there. This wife did this even though she knew this family did not and has never accepted his wife. They never spoke to her when she came in and looked at her funny everytime she spoke. This wife cried to her husband about this because it hurt her so bad. The husband did nothing or said nothing to his family about how they treated her over the past 15
years. But the wife continued to do the right thing and continued to encourage him to go every
Sunday in spite of her hurt. This wife slowly but surely lost all respect and love for this husband. She spoke to him numerous times, she wrote him letters and his parents letters and spoke to counselors about this matter. When he was encouraged by this counselor to write his parents a letter explaining his wifes hurts and his concerns it took him months to write it and send it to them, she wasn't sure he sent it at all! Where has been the protection, the love and concern for his wife, the leaving of his mother and father to cling to his wife all these years? Now there is no love left for him, no desire to be with him and she leaves. He tells their 8 year old daughter that her mother is doing the wrong thing and is going to ******, he tells her that her mother has chosen not to be with her and has left her. Their daughter is caught up in the adult conversation of her husband because he refuses to stop telling her all these things. He does not realize the affect of his actions is going to have on her. She yells and screams at her mother constantly and tells her mother what her dad says. He tries to take the 8 year old away from this mother who has taken care of this child since she was born by herself. He disrupts the daughter at school when the mom ask him not to. The mom has to call the counselor of this school down to talk to the husband about what he is putting his daughter through.
He has proclaimed that he has changed like hundreds of times before and that he is walking with the Lord, but I have to wonder. This mom realizes her faults but still wants to continue to move on without him. She prays for peace for her and her children without all this hatred. She prays her husband will get the help he needs and is able to move on also. This wife has suffered enough and is going to move on with her life. "


I will give you my response to this later. Can't wait.

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No response at this time would be me.

I think she is just trying to push you to do what she wants. Trying to justify her actions by rewriting history as others have said.

She wants you be the bad guy in her mind, and wants to try to convince others of that as well, so she doesn't have to take responsibility for her dispicable actions.


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The letter she wrote is only part true. Most of te things I did she is overlooking. Without me she has nothing. Just like the way she is living right now. without my income, my help she has nothing, although she thinks she has theworld in her hands and everything will be fine. We all she here going down hill fast. SHe looks miserable and never has money to do anything with the kids. All of her money is going to see OM and take weekend trips together. nothing for the kids. As far as justifying this letter, i will not comment on what I did or didn't do. But I will say that she did those things because she liked to, not because she had to. I washed dishes, clothes cleaned the house and many other things I don't need to get into. That is what a marriage is all about. Helping each other. I did the dishes many a night in our house just so when she got home she could relax with me and the kids and not have to worry about cleaning.
Her eyes will open one day and she will see all that I did compared to the things i didn't do and see that she has made a huge mistake. I am heading up while she is still trying to justify.


Me-34 (BS) W-33 (WW) DD-7 Married 3/28/1992 DDay 8/4/06 Seperated 8/18/06 Plan A Start 1/4/07 **A Warrior does not give up on what he Loves, he finds the Love in what he does.**
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What do you think about the other persons responce back to her. Was it a good thing or bad or maybe both. She will take it as a grain of salt.


Me-34 (BS) W-33 (WW) DD-7 Married 3/28/1992 DDay 8/4/06 Seperated 8/18/06 Plan A Start 1/4/07 **A Warrior does not give up on what he Loves, he finds the Love in what he does.**
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It can't hurt anything. She will see that no matter what her justifications are, other people see her as in the wrong. However, my WW just distanced herself from those people to avoid judgment. Pretty soon it was just her and the OM. Eventually, I put enough pressure on the OM through his family, and I put financial stress on her (that the OM couldn't help with), and she had nowhere else to turn but me.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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pHB,

I didn't mean to come across as you were a bad H. This letter is a way for you to work on some things in your M. You know what they are and you are right not to want to get into them with us here. Again, you wife is trying to make herself feel better by making you look bad in your M.

The responce back only will add to your wifes pi55ed off attitude toward everyone that doesn't agree with her.

I like the responce myself, but it will fall upon deaf ears I think.

Watch for more bad mood swings from her. The more people pile on her the more she will push back. Her fall one day will be hard!


M2L

ME BH 36 - FWW 33
2 kids
DDAY May 06


Sometimes waywards can be like Laxatives ..... They irritate the crap out of you.
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M2L

My reply was not directed towards you. I was stating in in general conver. I know she is just trying to make herself feel better.

She did call me a few minutes ago and inform me that I needed to call the bank and put her name on the deed so she can make the payments. I said OK.(not going to though)she asked if I changed DD dentist appt. I said no I will get off of work early and take her. she started fussing as usual and I used DO & don't list. I said ok, uh hu, and just agreed basically with her. Then she said to tell the people I work with to mind there own business and I said what do you mean? she said she has gotten Email after email today about what she is doing and how much I have changed in the past few months. She didn't tell me who sent it to her but one said "sounds like the Wife sees everything negativly and not all the husband acually did. W needs to open her eyes to the fact that jesus was looked at negativly to, but look what all he did." I giggled and said who sent that to you? she it didn't matter. I said I didn't get that email you sent because you replied all but didn't include me. She said I know I erased the wrong name.


Me-34 (BS) W-33 (WW) DD-7 Married 3/28/1992 DDay 8/4/06 Seperated 8/18/06 Plan A Start 1/4/07 **A Warrior does not give up on what he Loves, he finds the Love in what he does.**
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HB,

I agree w/the others that right now is not the best time to respond. However, I believe that you can take this letter & reflect upon it to see if there's any kind of truth to what she's saying. I know there is a lot of WS babble in it; however, I believe also there is a lot of truth in there somewhere.

There was a time when LB said to me that he was no longer going to hide anything from me, that he was going to be straightforward w/me about where he saw our M & how he was feeling before he decided to leave. He had told me that OW was the incentive for him to leave, that he had been thinking about it for a while, but meeting this OW just put things "in perspective" for him. A lot of that I thought was baloney, but then I thought, what if there was some truth to that? So what did I do? When LB would talk to me, I would listen. I got to be a pro at that. I figured God gave us 2 ears & 1 mouth. We're supposed to do twice as much time listening as we do speaking. So I used that. I listened & listened. When he would tell me things I didn't want to hear, I would tell him, I'm sorry you feel that way. And that was it. No other response.

When he told me things that he saw were wrong in our M, I listened. I started changing those things about myself that I thought needed improvement. Things I could see that he was right about, w/o changing who I was inside. I apologized to him for the things I did in the M to cause the rift. I took responsibility for those things.

Getting defensive & saying things like I never did that only adds fuel to the fire & pushes her further away, justifying her actions in her own mind. Do not let that happen.


RBW (me) FWH lostboyz
Married for 16 years
DDay on 10/10/03
Reconciliation on 2/8/04
Son 17, Twin son & daughter 16
4 years of a strong recovery
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PHB,

Nothing she wrote sounds terrible.

You weren't cruel to her, didn't beat her or the kids.

I really feel embarrassed for her.

She brought certain things to the M, as you did, OK....that's no different from any other M. You didn't MAKE her do what she did, she CHOSE to do them.

She felt rejected by your family. AND she expected you to fix that.

Interesting that when we talked about what her needs were, you said it was "protection."

Well, I understand better what you meant from reading her letter.

She expects/wants people who love her to admire her. Criticism is her greatest love buster.

Good to know!

You want to stay away from criticizing her as much as possible.

That includes...preaching to her, or trying to educate her. When you do those things what you are doing is CRITICIZING her. Please KNOW this. Please UNDERSTAND this.

ADMIRATION is the way to win your WW back.

CRITICIZING is the way to push her away from you.

Ok, now your DD...

It's important for you to teach your DD right from wrong.

Yes, what your WW is doing is wrong. And your DD should know this, but she should also understand that she is still expected to honor her mother. Respect her.

It's your job to help her w/ this.

Please look for the good things her mother does do for DD and point them out to her. Teach her to appreciate her Mother. Teach her how to admire her mother.

Your WW will notice the changes in DD. And she will KNOW that it is you who is helping to make these changes happen.

You MUST be VERY careful to try to PROTECT DD from as much of this as you can.

If you know OM is over there, be sure to WAIT until you are as sure, as you can be, that he's gone.

Watch what you say in front of her.

Quote
He has proclaimed that he has changed like hundreds of times before and that he is walking with the Lord, but I have to wonder.


Don't tell her you've changed.

SHOW HER!!!

Quote
She prays her husband will get the help he needs and is able to move on also. This wife has suffered enough and is going to move on with her life. "


Two very positive things popped out to me from this quote...

She called YOU her HUSBAND.

And she called HERSELF your WIFE.

~ Marsh

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Then she said to tell the people I work with to mind there own business and I said what do you mean? she said she has gotten Email after email today about what she is doing and how much I have changed in the past few months. She didn't tell me who sent it to her but one said "sounds like the Wife sees everything negativly and not all the husband acually did. W needs to open her eyes to the fact that jesus was looked at negativly to, but look what all he did." I giggled and said who sent that to you? she it didn't matter.


Her letter backfired on her.

I figured it would. It was so lame.

Let others criticize her, but don't YOU do it.

~ Marsh

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[qoute]Her letter backfired on her.

I figured it would. It was so lame.

Let others criticize her, but don't YOU do it.[/quote]

When she told me specifically one name "I said ok let me handle him, I be sure he minds his own business" she said sure you will. I then said nothing. I was silent. She said you there I said yes. She said Oh. I didn't reply to her smart comment of sure you will. Normally I would have persisted that I would handle it, but I said nothing and I think it shocked her. Maybe I am reading into it to much.


Me-34 (BS) W-33 (WW) DD-7 Married 3/28/1992 DDay 8/4/06 Seperated 8/18/06 Plan A Start 1/4/07 **A Warrior does not give up on what he Loves, he finds the Love in what he does.**
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When she told me specifically one name "I said ok let me handle him, I be sure he minds his own business" she said sure you will. I then said nothing. I was silent. She said you there I said yes. She said Oh. I didn't reply to her smart comment of sure you will. Normally I would have persisted that I would handle it, but I said nothing and I think it shocked her. Maybe I am reading into it to much.

She noticed a change.

She's not sure what it is, but she noticed it.

~ Marsh

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No response to the poem was the correct move

I provided an response fearing that you'd be compelled to respond and needed something short and reverse-babbly with which to do so. I was also in a hurry.

HOWEVER, I am going to go against the mainstream here and indicate that perhaps in a day or so that you DO respond to the long complaining email she sent out to everyone else today. The reason...what she said about your behavior in front of your daughter COULD be damaging in court. Without a response it COULD be perceived as what actually occurred. Also, you may have an opportunity to demonstrate, with a carefully worded response, that you DO have your daughter's "best interests" in mind...always. You can slip in some of that, which she will overlook as she ignores the general response. Whatever is drafted it really must be short and sweet...waywards don't comprehend to well....so a long explanation is not needed. Just address that part. I also don't think you should copy your co-workers with it.

This whole thing is interesting. It's not that often that a WW responds to exposure with revenge exposure. She really thought she could knock you down in front of your co-workers with "her side of the story". Oh, how the foggy are deluded. What's nice about this is she just destroyed one typical wayward argument...that the BS is vengeful and spiteful as demonstrated by the BS's exposure...she's done it too.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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She noticed a change.

She's not sure what it is, but she noticed it.

yes she noticed something I agree because I just received another call from her and she said "now your family is talking bad about me" I said "I don't beleive that because I had long talks with them this past weekend and everyone is wanting me to be happy and I stressed to all of them that I would not put up with anyone who said a cross word about you" then she laughed and said I don't think you would do that. I said who said something then so I can take it up with them. She said it didn't matter anyway. I simply said nothing again. Then she said you beleive them over me anyway. I said well I am sorry you feel that way because that is not true, if you tell me who and what was said then I will take care of it. She again said it doesn't matter it was said.

My take on this, let me know if I am wrong or if I should have handled it differently for future run ins because it look like this may increase and I need to be prepared.

1st-She thought about the email she sent to me and I didn't respond back. Why didn't he respond back?

Her conclusion- maybe he didn't have time yo respond since he was at work.

2nd- I called him and fussed about the house being in his name, about the bad emails that were sent back to me, about making DD's dentist appt. when only I could take her(I did it 6 months ago), I fussed at him for general things.

her conclusion-OK somethings not right he still didn't fuss back, he didn't even raise his voice, somethings he didn't even answer. He said he would handle things.

3rd- I called him again to fuss about his family and the things they said, the bank stuff, and DD's appt again.

her conclusion- who the heck was I just talking to. I fussed about his family and he peacefully answered me. I kept talking about his family and he didn't respond negativly at all. I asked about the bank stuff and He offered to go make the payment for me. Then when I tried my best to start him up, he was silent. The only thing he said was to let him handle those things. What is going on?

Am I close or am I reading into it again.

Oh yeah she put DD on the phone and she sried wanting to come with me. I knew I was on speaker phone and I said " DD your mommy loves you very much and she wants to spend some time with you tonight. You remember what I told you this weekend? That no matter what everybody else does you should Honor and respect your mother and I, and I will not put up with you being disresectful to my wife. Have fun with her tonight just like we did this weeekend and then Thursday I will pick you up from school and take you to the dentist. WW grabs phone and says to me. BS just tell her bye and hang up. I said ok and then told DD to promise me that she would be nice to her Mom just like the bible says for her to do. DD said OK, love you, bye. I heard WW say arrrrgghhh before it hung up.

Going to gym be back after while to update again on this.


Me-34 (BS) W-33 (WW) DD-7 Married 3/28/1992 DDay 8/4/06 Seperated 8/18/06 Plan A Start 1/4/07 **A Warrior does not give up on what he Loves, he finds the Love in what he does.**
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HOWEVER, I am going to go against the mainstream here and indicate that perhaps in a day or so that you DO respond to the long complaining email she sent out to everyone else today. The reason...what she said about your behavior in front of your daughter COULD be damaging in court. Without a response it COULD be perceived as what actually occurred. Also, you may have an opportunity to demonstrate, with a carefully worded response, that you DO have your daughter's "best interests" in mind...always. You can slip in some of that, which she will overlook as she ignores the general response. Whatever is drafted it really must be short and sweet...waywards don't comprehend to well....so a long explanation is not needed. Just address that part. I also don't think you should copy your co-workers with it.

Ok I wwill start working on a response tonight. I will take any and all advice because I am not as good with words as you all are. Plus you all have been there and the experience in vital.


Me-34 (BS) W-33 (WW) DD-7 Married 3/28/1992 DDay 8/4/06 Seperated 8/18/06 Plan A Start 1/4/07 **A Warrior does not give up on what he Loves, he finds the Love in what he does.**
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Sometimes I think the best response is no response. What can be gained? You are trying to share rational thoughts with an irrational WS. Words directed to a WS is much like throwing cotton balls at a crocodile.

Secondly, WW is reaching out a bit, dipping her big toe, so to speak in the waters of pHB. Some of the conversations have been cordial, with some overtones of seeing if there might be a way back home. Now that's just my take on the conversations that have been reported here. I could be way, way wrong. But I say, it that's the case, why respond with something that may push her further away???

Best wishes,
SD


BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04

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He tells their 8 year old daughter that her mother is doing the wrong thing and is going to ******,

[color:"blue"] DD is/was confused and her mother IS doing the wrong thing. DD is a very intelligent child, she drew the going to H E double hockey stick conclusion herself...those are DD's words not mine. Neither I nor DD have the right to condemn her mother...only God does. I have since tried my best to explain things to DD...the questions don't stop coming as she tries to understand exactly why mom is in a extra-marital relationship with Mr. In ter Loper. [/color]



he tells her that her mother has chosen not to be with her and has left her.

[color:"blue"] I tried to explain to DD that her mother has chosen to leave HIM not her. DD, again, has drawn her own interpretation. I'm not perfect...as I'm trying to make sense of this all myself but I NEVER attempted to instill in DD a sense that she was being abandoned by her mother. The truth...yes, but nothing vindictive like that.[/color]


Their daughter is caught up in the adult conversation of her husband because he refuses to stop telling her all these things.

[color:"blue"] But-for YOUR adultery, there would be NO such "adult conversation" taking place. How else am I to exlain this situation to a child as intelligent and perceptive as DD?? Am I to say that you're "taking a vacation". Nothing could be more damaging and confusing to a child as to lie to them about THEIR OWN lives. The professionals I've counselled with all concur that one of the biggest things children believe is that it's THEIR FAULT. The truth is the only way to alleviate that concern. I have taken great care to try to explain things to DD without ANY bitterness, vindictivenes or negativity. Again, I am not perfect and there is no textbook on how to handle these matters but I am sincerly attempting to protect DD from any and all damage being inflicted upon her by your nefarious actions/choices. Unfortunately, with your continued adultery...that is ultimately impossible. There is not a counselor, pastor, or teacher than can protect our angel from all the damage that will result from the destruction of our family. I, individually, am praying everyday for it's restoration. It is my belief that DD8 is as well. I don't think either of us can stop her.

Additionally, none of my mistakes in handling this matter compare with you exposing DD8 to Mr. Loper. You are a married woman. Married women are not supposed to have boyfriends. What lessons about marriage are you teaching her??? Not to mention, Mr. Loper is a corrupt, evil and sinful man as defined by the bible (not me...though I tend to share in His assesment even though I don't really know the "man" myself...but I do know he's a dangerous influence upon DD8). [/color]


He does not realize the affect of his actions is going to have on her.

[color:"blue"] UMMMM, really...."his actions"...honey, I love you but even you must see the irony in that statement. I accept 50% responsibility for the problems in our marriage and I personally and individually am addressing my shortcomings as we speak...however, I do not accept any responsibility for your infidelity. Maybe "his actions" was a reference to Mr. Loper. If so, then I strongly agree with this sentiment[/color]


She yells and screams at her mother constantly and tells her mother what her dad says.

[color:"blue"] DD8 is distraught over the current situation, I have explained to her again and again that she is to honor her father AND MOTHER. We have discussed biblical principles of respect. I have not, nor will I, nor would I prompt our daughter to disrespect you. (discuss what you said on the phone call above and reiterate it in writing). DD8 has indicated to me that you, actually, have been yelling and screaming at her constantly. She has been calm and strong when she's staying with me. I will address this with her.[/color]

He tries to take the 8 year old away from this mother who has taken care of this child since she was born by herself.

[color:"blue"] I have assisted with the care of DD8 since the day she was born/adopted. I have also been the sole provider of DD8 and you since the day she was adopted/born. In fact, over the course of the last 6 months...while you were indulging yourself in an extra-marital relationship with OM I have assumed and undertaken approximately 90% of the parental responsiblities. Sure you may have been home with them at times but you were substantially wrapped up in your "activities" and not spending any time with them/her. Further, wouldn't you agree that the right and best thing for DD8 would be for her mother and father to be happily marriead to each with BOTH having 100% access and custody of her. That is what DD8 needs and wants most and I remain willing and able to at the very least attempt to provide that to her. [/color]


He disrupts the daughter at school when the mom ask him not to. The mom has to call the counselor of this school down to talk to the husband about what he is putting his daughter through.

[color:"blue"] Explain this. [/color]


He has proclaimed that he has changed like hundreds of times before and that he is walking with the Lord, but I have to wonder.

[color:"blue"] I am not "proclaiming" anything...watch my actions. I am committed to being the best father, husband and individual I can be. I am with Him...standing in His presence.[/color]

This mom realizes her faults but still wants to continue to move on without him.

[color:"blue"] I can not control your choices.[/color]

She prays for peace for her and her children without all this hatred. She prays her husband will get the help he needs and is able to move on also. This wife has suffered enough and is going to move on with her life. "

[color:"blue"] I do not hate you. DD8 does not hate you. Despite your hurtful actions over the last 6 months, I remain here...committed to you with compassion and understanding...myself, praying for my wife, my daughter and my family.[/color]

[color:"blue"] As far as the rest of your letter, honey, all I can say is...when is it ever OK or justified to have an affair???? I fully understand your side of the story but you know you weren't perfect either...I am more than willing and able to discuss these problems with a professional as we work to rebuild our marriage. Mr. In ter Loper is a sad and pathetic replacement for me. He does not compare to what you have already and what was given to you by God. [/color]

It's a start. If you haven't email me before please do so now at the address below. I've got a little information to share with you off-line.

Mr. Wondering

Last edited by MrWondering; 01/09/07 07:43 PM.

FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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