I am pretty sure he is not gay, my sister is gay and he all on his own makes it out to be disgusting. Not to mention he is always against it in convos ext. I think his main issue is he is not ready for commitment and losing that independence he has not being married, if he had it his way we wouldn’t actually break up just not marry. I did joke with him about it the other night and he said its not that easy because I am not gay. I believe him on that point.

I think you need to talk to him about what happens now. You can get him thinking about it anyway. There are lots of scenarios - the two of you splitting and selling the house now, you moving back home, (but maybe leaving room for another person to move in with him), you keeping the home and getting some roommates, and on and on.

The only thing I wouldn't do is continue living together. That is not fair to you.

You are right, and that’s exactly what I started to do during lunch. I mentioned the different scenarios to him and said we need to figure it out he reluctantly agreed, generally not looking at me. He took today off and he is pretty much moping around the house. I mentioned to him that work is slow so I have been on the marriage builder site most of the say and he looked up at me and said “any help?” so I said with what? And he said “us” so I just told him a marriage counseling site is not going to change someone’s free will and if he doesn’t want to marry me there is nothing I can do, if anything it’s preparing me for my next relationship and he just looked back down again and I left for work. I am thinking of printing some articles out for him to read later, maybe he wants to have us work but he doesn’t know how, then again maybe I am looking into this too much and I need to respect his decision not to marry me.

I guess it wont hurt me to try as much as possible since I do love him. But I am not going to plead with him or pressure him at all to read it or not and if he decides not to I am not taking it personal.

If he seems interested, you could print out Dr. Harley's basic concepts and let him read. Maybe he needs to realize that there is hope in turning this relationship around, and how to go about that.

I will give a brief update from last night.


I gave him the articles after work and he said he would read it, he didn’t right away I did my usual after I took a bath I decided to ask him for a massage again, he usually says no its one of those things where when we first got together he would give them to me 3-4 times a week and now I cant even remember the last time he did but its been about 3-4 months. He did agree to the massage and he actually gave me one like he meant it, which I would say he hasn’t done in even longer than 3-4 months. We had a long convo after the massage again he told me his mother said she felt pressured to marry his father so she did, they had already had his older brother (and later had him) so she tells him he needs to be sure b4 doing this, and alluded to having regret for marrying her father for what "could" have been if she had not, she has not remarried, and they have been divorced since he was young. His father is an alcoholic. My mother and father are still married (30 years), and had no kids b4 marriage, when I tell her my doubts she lets me know no relationship is perfect, and to think about my entire life since my job at the time was stressing me, she also told me to be understanding of Drew and let him come around because I can be impatient, she stressed I should be sure if I want to be with him forever but she never expressed doubts about choosing to marry my father (they are still married.) My fiancée is not completely happy like he used to be but he doesn’t know exactly why, I asked him if its because we have stopped caring enough about each others feelings and he said yes that is a part of it but is not sure its all of it, but because he is not completely happy he feels he is not ready and needs to call the wedding off, its too big of a decision to make to go on a relationships ups and downs.

He told me he feels he is not ready but he spent all day thinking about it and me leaving, he can't imagine his life without me because he is so used to being with me. He wants to call off the wedding but still stay together, he knows that is selfish and I told him I will be too hurt after knowing he doesn’t want to be with me to still stay with him. He said its not that he doesn’t want to be with me he just doesn’t want to marry me; I can not separate the two like he can. He said he is not ready to get married but he does not want me to go. I don’t see how I can stay with him knowing he has called off a wedding I have been planning for a year. I didn’t force him to buy me a ring last year he did that all on his own, if he goes back on his word and I have to go to the wedding planner and my entire friends and family to call everything off I am not going to be able to keep this same trusting relationship with him afterward.

We had sex mostly because he did give me a massage so I guess it can lead to sex. I understand a little more about how he feels, but I think he is making it more confusing than it should be. It is a big decision but if u know you want to be with that person forever build a life and family with her and you are willing to try your best to make her happy it shouldn’t be as hard of a decision for him. I guess since I am going to be with my true family this New Year it will give us both time to figure out what is right.

I want closure on this issue, but I am going to put things on hold until I get back from my parents. Am I being selfish by forcing him to make up his mind for real? He waits until months b4 the wedding to come out with wanting to cancel he is the one who set the date with me and proposed, should I really just let him call everything off and stay with him?

Maybe you two can come to some sort of agreement. He isn't ready to commit to a marriage. You don't want to stick around in limbo while he decides what to do.

How about you agree to postpone the wedding on the condition that he does MB counseling with you. This way, he doesn't have to make the commitment that he fears, and you aren't sitting around in limbo but actively working on the relationship so he will be willing to commit to marriage in the near future. I think that is a fair compromise if both parties are okay with it. If not, I would use the POJA to come up with some sort of solution on your own.

However, if I refuses to work on the relationship, and just wants to put off his problems, then I wouldn't blame you (heck, I would encourage you) for walking away. What do you think?

Yes if he is willing to try counseling I would be willing to postpone the wedding until the beginning of April. I am not sure tho, because if I do actually call things off I am not sure if I can look at him the same way since to me he is playing with my future. I would try my best if he is willing to go to counseling. It's like a part of me is saying if he doesn’t know by now he never will so I might as well move on. I guess I am scared of continuing to let him hurt me and change his mind that’s one of the reasons I want marriage is for that stability and I am not sure I can take all of this uncertainty from him regarding if I am the one for him or not.

I guess I am torn; I don’t want to lose all trust in him over his indecisiveness.

"Yes if he is willing to try counseling I would be willing to postpone the wedding until the beginning of April"

No, no, no. What am I going to do with you? You are not like a piece of furniture that can be neglected and ignored. Please cancel the wedding. I don't care how long you planned for it. Cancel it. Your man doesn't want to get married.

The worse thing you could do is somehow manipulate of counsel him into marrying you. You don't want a wedding where you had to chase down, rope, and drag the groom down the aisle.

Let him go. Detach from your dream, and start making a real life. As things exist today, he doesn't want to get married. Don't stay engaged. He would probably prefer to maintain the status-quo - not good for you either.

So start figuring out where you are going to live. Or he can find a place. If you like your job, you may want to stay there. But you need to get busy. You should both reach an agreement of what to do with the home, possessions, etc.

When you are apart, please get the book called "Buyers, renters, and freeloaders", or something like that. It is a MUST READ for anyone BEFORE they get married.

You have a point, but there has to be a line where you are negotiating and where you are simply giving in too much. He doesn’t want me to go, and I want him to marry me, it's not like I want to break up with him and move out. I am not sure if he doesn’t want me or he is just afraid of the term marriage. To him being married is about family and he is not sure he wants me to be a part of his, I guess this should be enough to send me packing since he proposed to me a year ago and now he is going back on that proposal. Honestly speaking if he really calls everything off its over because I won't be able to trust his word anymore, but I feel like I am being selfish and not considering his issues when the fact is he is lying to me by telling me he is ready when he is really not. How am I supposed to trust someone like that?

my fiancee just wrote me this

"Dear,

Its very tough to make this decision. Unfortanetly I cant promise you dreams that, I too am unsure of.
I started thinking about how it will be when/if we part ways..and it wont be an easy transition.
I know through-out our relationship we've had our ups and downs. I could always say that at times you could annoy
me. But I could never say that I couldnt count on you..maybe its because I never asked you for much because how hard is it to count
on someone when you ask them for so very little. I guess in my own
mind I just wanted you to focus on doing what you loved too do (fashion). I didnt want you to have to think about whether
ima step off or planning a marriage, or worrying about whether I need something and taking care of me (cooking). I just wanted you
to take care of your self and focus on what you want...which shouldnt involve me because I will always be here for you.
I feel like..I dont want anyone to take care of me...I want someone to look out for me..meaning..you dont have to do the little things like
make sure my lunch is made or make sure I dont stay up past my bedtime, speak for me, wash my clothes, iron my shirts, ect. On the flip side, that doesnt mean that you have to be
selfish either. I always feel that when the time is right..you will know and things will fall into place, You cant force a square into a circle.
Its kind of like when we found the apartment in Randolph...we just knew..it was cheap..the kitchen was fresh..and the bathroom was white and clean.
When *** came calling...talkin about we want you to be apart of the ** group which encompasses Basketball and music (hip-hop)...Things
just fell into place. Even with school..I wanted to do transportation but wasnt satisfied with drawing cars..and my man put me on to shoes..I just knew..
and things fell into place.
I guess your still trying to figure out why I am so unsure about marriage. Well for one..this has been and on going discussion since we decided to move in together.
Never once Have I had a chance to think about this for myself and only myself.(its been in the back of my mind..like "is she over reacting cause we aint married yet or because
I actually did something wrong").. Never once has their been a chance for all of this to just fall into place.
It started when you wanted to spiritually get married over the phone. Then for the next 6 months you wanted a ring..then for the next yr and some you gave me a deadline.
then the next 6 months I get a ring...now you start planning marriage...nothing has really fallen into place in my mind..like I think they should...so It still feels like
your making decisions for me/us..
I also feel like its been and ongoing saga of whether you are convincing yourself that Im the right
person for you, or you convincing others that you plan on getting married so they wont ridicule you and your fake wanna be committment. I've noticed that
being with you...you care so much about how others percieve you..IMO..and that always disturbed me...I can honestly say that no outsiders have in anyway
influence any portion of our relationship...I made decisions for myself..and to make YOU happy also. Plus..contrary to your belief I have people who support me.
My father wasnt to keen on u moving in..but he wasnt extremely focal...i think he trust my decisions more than he trust Mikeys...but I could be wrong.
But I wont blame you, in retrospect I wish we could have done things differently but our circumstances didnt allow it... U might say that you took a chance on love
by not working for Victoria's but the're will be other opportunities.

I guess if i was in your situation I would be upset too...not that Im not feeling marriage but that we have to break up.
Plus I know you have timelines..so I feel bad that I couldnt be that guy whom you wanted me to be...I feel like the best thing I can do
is be honest with myself and you and we just go from their.

I guess me being a late bloomer will figure it out someday....it might be too late. "

i am still thinking on how to reply, i guess my problem is why would he propose if he didnt want things or think they were falling into place??

He seems to be being an honorable man, but you are not hearing him. He is telling you, and you want to have a different interpretation.

I can tell that you will make some man a wonderful wife. Please live by yourself, don't date for awhile, and stick with us. You need to be on your own for a bit.

He is a great man, and we could be great together. But somewhere in his heart he has a lot of doubt about whether I am the one for him or not. I hear him he feels things have still not fallen into place for him and by me not ever being comfortable with our “live in” situation it has only made things worse, I cant go back on that it was impossible for me to live with him in a more “roommate” type relationship as he wanted, so I never should have moved in with him. The issue now is can we go backwards and still go forward or has it all been to tainted to where we just need to cut our loses and move on? I do agree if the wedding is off I need to move out. But to me there is no way for me to move out everything (or him) and for us to still somehow be in a relationship.

here is my reply:

****,



I trust that you know what is in your heart, and what is right for you. As I read your response you are pretty much noting to me you wanted me to move in with you as a “roommate” do my own thing and have things slowly mature, the sad thing is we cant stop the speeding up of things once we live together, and I wish I could take it all back for you and not have developed these feelings, but at this point its too late


I am not 100% sure about this also, I asked my mom if while planning her wedding was she ever 100% sure and she said she never was. This is a huge choice, and since we have been “playing” marriage for so long it clouds things even more, so 100% certainty is not likely. But I do know I could love you and care for you the rest of my life so that’s what I am going on. You are the one for me in my book, but logically I know god will give me another man if in your heart you don’t want me. The more I plan and imagine you in the suit on the beach and me in my dress the more I think about how much I love you, not to mention the ring I have been wearing on my finger for the past year reminding me how much you love me, it already feels weird not to wear it.



As far as things not falling into place, I feel like they may have already fell into place but we didn’t catch on to it the right way and act appropriately, I also wish we could have done things differently because I would have been able to give you more time to have things fall into place for you. Unfortunately you have already been dishonest with me regarding your feelings by proposing to me, after you propose eventually you are going to have to start planning the wedding and you were not protesting anything until now. I guess my heart is hurting because I thought you were sure of me only now you are not. You say you want to always be there for me yet you don’t want me to be a part of you and your family permanently. How can you commit to me but not really commit to this level?



You mentioned with **** things just fell into place- finding that position was not just falling into place IMO you applied at many places and you worked hard doing the work you did to get that job. I remember you had to think about if **** was the place for you or not, you didn’t just immediately jump all into it. The larger the decision is the more doubt you will have about it when you over think. it I guess I feel like our relationship is going to take consistent work also, but knowing I am the one for you should have already fallen into place by now and if it hasn’t I feel like it probably never will. I guess I am putting you on my timetable and I always have, but the moment I was forced out of my comfort zone and put into the fake marriage/live in situation we have been in my views on what we were changed. There have been many times where I thought you were the right one for me, and I felt you felt the same, these to me outweigh all the times you hurt me up until now.



There will always be days when you annoy me or times you hurt my feelings, but overall I love you so much and I want to be with you, I trust you and I want things to work, it has nothing to do with anyone else. I didn’t completely feel this way until I thought of how I really can’t see myself with another man, and the fact I trust you and I know you care about me. If you are not sure I am the one for you and you mentioned things have not fallen into place for you I hope that you find the woman who makes things fall into place since it’s not me. You are right breaking up will be hard, and I will miss you a lot, but I can’t force someone to want to be with me and in the long run we will both end up hurt if having me a part of you is not something you want.



The fact that you have already proposed got me the ring and now you want to renig on that proposal puts a lot of doubt in my mind about you. I can not in my heart allow a man who is so indecisive about his feelings to stay in my heart and continue to live with you. I will have lost so much trust in what you say and do that I will constantly think does he even really want me here since obviously he doesn’t want me enough to marry me. We have to break up if we are not going to get married, it makes no since not to.



We are both young, yet our time is precious. We have spent 4 years on each other exclusively. If you don’t think I am worth a lifetime right now find a woman for you who is worth it and don’t lead me on anymore. If things just haven’t “fallen into place” for you as far as if I am the one for a lifetime and you cant put your finger on why that is, (I personally feel they never will fall into place at this point without you putting forth the effort needed in a marriage type relationship) we again need to separate and see what else is out there for us because staying together is not going to make you anymore sure.



I will always have love for you, but I really do want you to do what is right for you, I don’t want to chain a man down who really doesn’t want to be with me. I am going to give you the week I am in *** to make sure I am not the one for you and ill call you toward the end of my stay, if I am still not ill just stay in **** for a while longer and come back up with someone to help me so we can split up our things. I’m sorry things are turning out this way as much/or more than you are and I would give anything to make you love me the way I love you, but sometimes people have to do what’s best for them and I respect you for that.

well i am away and we have talked online via chat since i went out of state, he let me know the reason he wants to post-pone our wedding is he feels i have not tried hard enough to find a job that really makes me happy. chiefly because we just moved into our house 4 months ago and i have been working on getting that together. he tells me he is not sure i will not spend my time doing "unessesary" things once we get married and feels i can not take care of myself (mind you I make a whole 200 less a month then him and i pay 1/2 the mortgage). to me he is saying he doesnt like my job or what i do so he doesnt want to commit to me, sounds like a load of [censored] right?

Yep, it does.

He is in excuse mode. He doesn't want to just come out and say you are not the one for him so he is making up excuses. It's cruel because to him it probably feels like he is letting you down softly and being the good guy. He doesn't understand that he is giving a sense of false hope, making you feel like if you can only work out this issue or that one then you could get married. I think he doesn't want to marry you because if he did he would try to work on the issues instead of throwing it all away.

this is exactly how i feel, he wants to post pone the wedding, but i know i cant do that and still trust him in the long run, i feel that he just doesnt want me only he doesnt know how to admit it anymore. it hurts but i feel like ultimatly if this is how he feels and if this is enough for him to throw everything we have away i need to move on because i am worth much more than that.

being away from him has cleared my head alot. ultimatly i am pretty sure someone is going to have to move out and it will probably be me. the more i think about it i realize he hasnt been attending to me and our relationship in a long time and its probably best that we both take a step back and figure out why we fell in love in the first place and see if its really enough to keep us together. all i know is if the wedding is to be post-pone we need to seperate even if only for a while to completly figure out things. overall i feel he has made up in his head that he is not ready to get married, he feels this way enough to let me go and he is coming up with excuses for why he is not when i need to just accept that and move on from there

i just thought i should update, i told him i would give him more time only now i dont want to. i feel like he has stalled my life for too long and i am starting to resent him. i told him i would find a counselor to go to, but the bottom line is either he marries me or someone is going to need to move out.