good advice but what happens in the meantime while the issues come to a head?

Example:

In 1 weeks time school is going to reopen.

My son is staying with me at the moment and WW wants him back home by her mother.

My intention is to get him into a school near my home and not have him return.

WW wants to leave things as is until courts decide custody. My laywer says get custody now and she will file a motion/injunction.

Lawyer explains that it is better to actually have custody when this is filed since it will now be unlawful for WW to take back the child while the issue is before the courts.

I want my kids and I know this divorce is going to be nasty and lead to MASSIVE LBs. Don't want that coming between me and what's left of my family.

This entire situation is going to play out in a weeks time.

How do I avoid talking about this?

Example 2:

Loans that need to be paid. She expects that I will just magically deal with them. The debt collectors will come calling.

What then?

I just think it is impossible to side step all of these issues and talk casually when she is going to want answers and would blatantly refuse to talk about anything else.

Tough, if you have a problem with it have your lawyer call my lawyer.


Listen to your lawyer.


It won't be a LB if you don't talk about it. The whole reason you are doing this is FOR your family.


Hand her your lawyer's card.


Oh well, your in a crappy situation, and now you'll have bad credit. At least she'll get a dose as to how it is going to be IF she gets divorced. Let the collectors come after her. If she doesn't want to pay, she can trade in the car (or whatever) and get something cheaper. Let her handle it if she wants a D so bad. She expects you to give her a D, but still handle your husbandly duties. You let her know that is not how it is going to be.


I guess you just won't talk then. Seriously, talking about this just leads to LBs and only worsens your situation. Not talking about this will NOT damage the love bank any further. Pass her your lawyer's card and tell her you only talk about the marriage.

Well you've answered everything.


We had civil conversation today and she even gave me lunch. Something that hasn't happened in the past 5 months.

Avoided talk about the divorce as you recommended, strangely she did not bring it up.

Roller coaster.

Thanks so much Jim. Solid advice indeed.

I'll let you know how and in which general directions the sparks fly in the coming days as the custody issue comes to the forefront. lol

Well the sparks did start flying.

Today she appeared willing to talk more but this time the topic would be something confrontational.

My boy and girl.

I had already made plans for his new school and she said she was willing to consider my keeping him.

That was good

As for my girl, she asked "Do you plan to take her too?"

Her voice almost breaking as if to cry but with a high degree of angst.

She then went into a rant about how everything was my fault and that I have no right to take the baby girl. That she would do whatever it takes to stop me.

At this point, I ended the conversation, hanging up. Not wanting to talk any further since things got to a heated stage.

Called later this evening and she went on about this whole thing being my fault and that she would fight for the girl and ended by hanging up on me.

All the while I kept trying to agree and say "I understand your pain and anger but let us talk about this"

She wasn't really interested in conversation but more of a monologue of what a bad man I was and how much I hurt her.

Is this "progress???"

Sure doesn't feel like it.

Though I read somewhere that if she is getting passionate about issues and looking for a fight, that she is coming around.

Does this make sense?

Let me cut you off right here. This is where you should have said, I don't talk about anything having to do with D, no custody, no assets, no loans, nothing. If you want to talk about that stuff, have your lawyer call my lawyer. You would have avoided the whole argument.[/quote]


Since you got this far, this was your chance to repeat your mantra. You should have said, "I don't want to 'take' anyone. I want us to be one big family," and then ended with, "Any other discussion beyond that I refuse to take part in."


Umm, don't get a D then.


Hanging up is not cool. This is where the mental toughness needs to kick in. You can muster it up for another six months, I know you can. Don't let the rantings of a WS get to you. This is your time to shine and show that you have changed.


Better job this time, but I wouldn't go with, "let's talk about this." I would just listen to her rant, tell her that you understand how she feels, and at the end put a plug in about how you are going to do everything you can to save the M, your family, and make amends for your part in this mess.


Sure it's progress. She engaged you, didn't she? It won't feel like progress for a LONG time. Let her get her anger and her pain out. You need to help her through it because you are the major reason for it. Just be there to listen as she tries to navigate through this difficult time.

On another topic, has she filed for D yet? I don't recall you saying that you've been served. The longer things drag out without a divorce, the more likelihood or reconciliation down the road because it means that they aren't 100% sure they want to go down that path, and you have a change to coax them back to the M.

Yea, I need some more skill in taking the hard line and not having the conversations. Right now, seems my only real option is hanging up.

I want to let her vent and rave. Do you think talking in person would be better? Let her have a go at slapping me silly or something to get it all out?

Or should I just lay low and not call her at all.

Over the phone just doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

She says the divorce papers were filed some time ago. I have yet to receive it. Her lawyer actually spoke to me about it.

May be our inefficient mail delivery service that is holding it up. Or maybe it was sent to a wrong address. She says the court hearing is in May.

I love your line about not getting a divorce if she wants to stay with the kids. Lol. Makes sense to me.

It is often said, don't make a decision when you are mad.

Being angry at me and not wanting to be my wife is a feeling that can change. Destroying our family and the lives of our two kids is irreversible damage.

That is a message that she has yet to understand.

Thanks again for the input Jim. The support, reassurance and guidance is always welcome.

More fun today. Jim you would have been proud. Managed to side step pretty much every attack and avoid discussing details of the divorce.

Called me her least favourite person in the world. What an accolade.

My account in her love bank has to be at an all time low. Says a lot about my Plan A efforts. lol

To think I've been considering going to plan B.

Pretty much ran me out of her mother's house with the excuse of having a headache. I know some people get that for sex but now I get it for just being in close proximity.

(is this progress???)

Not much ranting today in person. Conversation was forced and low key. Nor over the phone.

Did get a long winded txt message loaded with fog talk. Saying I should come out of my dreamworld with my son and such. That I should start paying my bills (which I've been doing for all my working life!).

Amongst other things that just didn't make sense and weren't grounded in reality.

Tried some reverse fog speak:

Quick example:

She says:

Be a man and do what is right.

I said:

For me, doing what's right is standing by my family even though my heart says no. What does it mean for you?

And so on and so forth.

At the end of the txting, she replies with a terse "See you in divorce court"

I think she uses the D word at least 4 times a day now.

Found out today that there is yet another OM in the race. He would be OM#3. Not sure how far OM#2 got, but I am assuming not very for a #3 to be in consideration. Don't think I have the energy to go about exposure and face another ordeal.

Maybe this explains why she is making it all but impossible to meet any of her ENs. From what I understand, this OM#3 is a real "sweetie". Her words. Not mine.

Dropping off lunch at the office for her and such.

Oh well, just a month before the court date for divorce by her account. (Still yet to get served with the papers myself)

Well last night I delivered my Plan B letter to my WW.

Her response was that she saw the picture of our life together as a perfect one and that nothing could be perfect. So she just dismissed it.

She wants to be happy and says that is something she has to do herself. In turn, that is the only way she can make her kids happy. Seems there is no space for me in that equation.

Thanks so much for all the help and support guys.

It's just a matter of time now till we either get divorced or she changes her mind and returns to the marriage. Either way, I'm fine.

Can't continue with Plan A anymore, so I am hoping my efforts in recent times was enough to show her how much I still want to keep our family together and what a wonderful life we would have.

My conscience is clear. That tells me my efforts were enough to satisfy my heart that the marriage did not die without a fight. The big question is whether she thinks so as well.

Time will tell.

Thanks again.

Well a wonderful update. She came back!

After my Plan A days were up, in midst of Divorce proceedings, my WS just decided she wants to come back home.

Now we are on great talking terms, spend time with the kids together and she has spent the night over.

No sex yet and she says kissing makes her uncomfortable. Not sure what to make of that.

I am besides myself with shock that she returned though. This site is simply amazing and I would not have gotten this far without the help of you guys and Dr. Harley's books.

Thanks again.

As always, I welcome any and all advice on the way forward.

She hasn't agreed to go through the books herself but I hope that she will in time. They seem to be the best way to establish an affair proof marriage.

Just be patient. My wife decided to stay in November, but it wasn't until this month that we resumed SF again. Just keep using the MB principles and she will be in love with you again. Some just take longer than others. She will probably be guarded until she does, so she might not show any outward signs that she is falling in love again in the meantime. Look for small little signs of her commitment and have that tide you over in the meantime. Most relationships take 2 years to recover from infidelity. You've had two infidelities. Take your time.