The pictures in DDs rooms have been there a while. I'm not getting them new ones...just not removing the ones they already have.

fox,

Your approach is pretty natural. I had begun packing WH's things up not long after our second separation, and placed them in the detached garage. Now I have asked him to remove MOST of his things. I don't know if it will work, but I feel the need to capture my own space.

Maybe the actual search for another home, and moving will help spurn your STBxWH into thinking...maybe not...I wholly understand the need to press on, and start fresh.

Sometimes, when I'm sitting here expressing something, it hits me, [email]D@mnit[/email], my M is over, and a sense of bewilderment comes over me. It only lasts a few seconds, but I STILL have a hard time with acceptance. I just felt like telling you that because it just happened.

Don't be surprised it WH DOESN'T attempt to call, and pulls the silent treatment on you. Don't let that set you back. My WH has ALWAYS respected my Plan B, to the extent that I have to begin to believe that he REALLY never wanted to work it out...

Removing the pictures has actually helped a great deal. Sometimes just sitting there watching tv, my eyes would wonder to the wedding pictures that were sitting on the top of the entertainment center....even on days where I felt I accepted what has happened and there is no going back. I see those pictures and I get the same feeling. Bewilderment....what the heck happened? And where did that guy in the pictures go? Will he ever be back? Should I be here when he does want to come back? There is no question in my mind that he will eventually want to come back, but at what cost to me?

I feel like I can't sit and wait for him to "get it" forever, that I'm only putting my life and DDs lives on hold when it may make no difference to him at all. And then sometimes I feel like I am giving up too soon. And I question how much I really must have loved him when I feel this intense need sometimes to be rid of him.

I'm having a really hard time finding the right time to completely let go. How do I make sure I spend enough time and effort to recover the M but not too much where I am sacrificing myself? I'm having a difficult time finding that balance.

I'm sorry, SL, that you are still have those moments too. I think it is so hard to come to the final absolute acceptance because we know in our hearts that we would be willing to work on it....and still can't understand why they are not.

WH will not contact me for a little while, I think. He'll try to make it work with OW and continue forcing what he thought he had in her. Because he lost so much, HE will have a hard time with accepting his fantasy didn't go his way. I think he will eventually try to contact me....the way our talks were going before the blowup at the rodeo...there is no doubt in my mind that he was having second thoughts. And he was very confused by this...why did he still have feelings for me when he supposedly was so happy with OW? The fog was lifting somewhat, I think. I also think if the blowup would not have happened, he would have tried to fence sit for a long time. When he found out about the rodeo, I think it smacked him between the eyes that I would not be waiting forever and that someone else may eventually want me. That wasn't my intention and that is not why I went, but that is what I think he felt about it.

This is the 4th day in Plan B. I have changed my route to pick up DDs after school so I do not pass by his house. If at all possible, I leave the room when DDs are talking on the phone to WH so I don't overhear what he is doing or hear his voice over the phone.

The last couple of days have been difficult emotionally just because the final D date is on Wednesday and I think I am still in a little bit of shock and some denial too. But the final D date is coming....and is forcing me to see reality. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I just can't believe that this is what he wants.

Fox,

I don't think I could have said any bit of your post better. That is exactly how I am feeling.

I've been asking myself many of the same questions: Do I hang in there and wait it out, to see what may happen? How long should I wait? I don't want to wait too long, meanwhile, WH is truly well on his way in his new life. It's a very difficult situation...that's the part about no contact that I do not like; no idea of where WH is headed, so I must make these decisions myself.

I've said this before, but I will have to make the decision to file for D. I know that I could have done this at any time, after his A, but following MB, I've tried to hang in there. I feel much like a fool, waiting for some sign, something within myself to show me the answer. The truth is, if I wanted to, I could wait forever, but my PRIDE is pushing me to go for the D this summer. I really don't know what I'll do, as it is 6 months away...

I think all of the things that you are doing to avoid your WH will help you to detach a bit more, and even get over him more and more. A broken heart is a broken heart, and it must heal...

I see pics of WH, and I am in the same state of dismay; Where did he go? I still feel emotion come to the surface and grab my throat, trying to force me to cry, but most days, I do not.

Fox, I don't think this is really what your H wants, but PRIDE can cause many a man/woman to do many a crazy thing, and could force even the best leader to stay the course of a bad choice...

SL,



I think that is the point of Plan B....to have no idea where WH is headed and to have to make those decisions by ourselves. I, too, find this VERY difficult. Especially, after feeling like WH was maybe turning around. I think we need to realize that our lives our OURS, not to be decided by WH and what they do or don't do. That is so hard..... my WH and I have been making decisions together for more than 15 years....awful hard to do it on my own now. But I will, and it will make me stronger. My life is MINE, no matter what he does. Easy to say, harder to accept and act on....but I'll get there.



You're not a fool, at all. You're a human with honest feelings. The answer will come when you are ready to accept it. Six months is a long ways away...and then not so long. I thought everything was fine in my M, in April of last year we had signed a buy/sell on house....and then two short months later my H was was telling me he didn't love me anymore. Many things can change in 6 months....the decision will get easier, I'm sure of it.



Yes, I think pride will be a huge block for WH, not being able to admit he was wrong. But I think sometimes that is just an excuse.....WH keeping his pride is more important than having his family back and doing what it takes to recover and be happy. Pride is just an excuse not to take action.

I don't think I said this well...but I think you understand.

How are you today FNH? Holding up okay?

Thank you for checking in with me, familycomesfirst.

Yeah, I'm doing okay. This weekend was rough but I think it's because I had too much free time on my hands.

I called my lawyer, had to leave a message, of course. He has not returned my call yet. He had told me last week that the court date may be moved..especially if we were in the process of negotiating. I don't know where that is now. If it's going to happen, I'd rather it just happen right now.

I wouldn't mind holding it off a little bit, let those cracks widen some more. Financially, I just can't do that. I have to get this straightened out this month or I'm really going to get in a financial mess.

Hopefully, I will hear from my lawyer soon.

I just pulled up the docket for the judge we are scheduled to see. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> We're there. At 1:30 on Wednesday.

WH vs BS, like we are at war...one versus the other. Another kick to the gut..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes in court, when the lawyers are all done making their arguments and even if a settlement agreement has been negotiate and is being entered, the Judge MAY ask the parties...you and your husband...if you have any comments or concerns. You can even request such opportunity.

If I were you (and I know how nervous this makes people to even consider but you may only get one shot at this)...I would at that time, in open court, maybe even reading from a prepared statment, indicate the following to the judge.

"Your honor, I do have one request that my attorney advised me not to discuss in all the negotiations because he felt that it may make me appear mean or vindictive, however, now that the agreement has been presented to the court for your approval and I have played by the rules, I respectfully request that you insert a clause into your order approving such negotiated settlement agreement a clause of your liking whereby my very soon to be ex-husband is forbidden from having unrelated overnight guests of the opposite sex at any time he has custody of our children, forbidding him from exposing/introducing/socializing our daughters specifically to his mistress, Mrs. _______ and/or whatever you deem appropriate and for whatever period of time you deem appropritate. I humbly make this request on behalf of my daughters who need, at least, some time to transition and come to terms with this sudden adjustment in their lives without having forced interaction with the up to now unknown interloper and destroyer of their family. Thank you."

Have the same typed up and prepared to read. You may even be able to just present it to the judge without having to read it in court...but doing it in open court would perhaps be more effective at shaming WH and the OW (and also perhaps causing love busters because WH failed to object or stand up for her). Even if you don't get it...at least you said it and it will forever be on the record...which will feel good to you. YOU matter too.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I disagree with your attorney that requesting the above makes you look bad. As long as it's presented as you looking out for you daughters and demonstrates concern ONLY for their best interests...it's fine. Your lawyer works for you. He knows that in negotiations of a settlement agreement that such language becomes difficult to negotiate and wants you to place nice. The whole system is designed for everyone to play nice. It's bucking the "nice" system that's the problem here...but darn it...this IS important. I think you should present the above language to your attorney and have him consider bringing it up at the last moment of the negotiations. Perhaps he can state to opposing counsel "All right, we are done we have an agreement; with one exception, I will be requesting that the judge include the following clause into the final order at his discretion and for whatever length of time he considers reasonable. What he's saying to opposing counsel is this isn't a negotiation because we know you won't want the restriction and we do. Let's just agree to allow the judge to determine it and be done with it.

Good luck

I really like that idea, Mr. Wondering. If I need to I will definately try to work that in. Yes, it will be difficult, emotions will be running high, I'm sure.

However, I may not need to. WH conceded in his recent proposal that there will be a certain "phasing in" of OW into DDs lives. Supposedly, he isn't expecting to immediately have DDs start having overnights with her there. But eventually they will. I don't know yet what timeline he is thinking of or how that can be worked in legally. Will they actually give him a date? I'm surprised that he would concede to restrictions on when DDs can be around OW. I really hope he is thinking of DDs and not just trying to look like the father of the year to everyone else.

Fox,

First, I want to say thank you for your insight on my sitch. I know that this is all FRESH for you, but you have a talent for explaining a situation and describing your feelings in regards to that.

MrWondering has posed a good approach to 'phasing' OW into your DD's lives (we all know you would prefer her never to see them). I'll have to take that gem with me, if'n I get a divorce...

D is not the end, from all that I've heard here. I wonder if some WS's don't need a clear-cut end to the M, in order to start anew. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I've seen and heard crazier.

I feel pressure, to do the right thing, to stay M or not. My WH wouldn't have filed for LSA, nor will he file for D. I have to read whether that is because he doesn't want to, or he is just lazy, or he doesn't care, because he has continued a R with someone else INSIDE M. I don't know the truth, and I must ferret it out as best I can. I sometimes wish that he had filed for a D, so I wouldn't have to shoulder that burdon. My sitch has been ongoing for almost 2 years now.

I see from your sig line that you've only had about 6 mos. to get used to this. Despite my setbacks, I do feel better. I have to believe that things get better and better with each passing day. Please come back and let us know how you're doing, so that you can get the support you will most definitely need.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

lemme translate phasing in the OW per the WH perspective ~~~> "as soon as I damn well want to"

be very aware
they have NO honor here

any real protection must be done LEGALLY

Pep

I agree with pb. He will want the girls to meet OW asap and think she's wonderful... gag.

Actually

He MAY think the phasing in is a good idea when not with other woman and thinking a little more clearly

It's more likely that absent legal restriction...

It will actually be the OW who will insert herself into your daughters life (to possess all that is his and to usurp YOU) and it would be contrary to the addiction for your WH to resist it.

This is an angle you can use in negotiations by speaking to WH logically and outside the presence of OW whereby you give him false kudo's for looking out for the kids and tell him that HE needs this agreement otherwise OW will likely steamroll him and insist on immediate contact. Also, sell it to him that this "phase in" will actually protect OW and his relationship with her as with time and sensitivity the kids may actually more easily come to get along with her. What OW does now could effect the children for years to come and her relationship with him and them. Maybe even throw in the fact that the kids may make his new relationship even more difficult IF they are mean to her and not ready to meet her. "WH, it's just a win-win to take this slow".

Make him think he wants the provision. Use his addiction to your advantage. Remember, his addiction (NOT the kids) are his PRIMARY concern thus only things PERCEIVED as contrary to the addiction will be resisted. Sell it.

I'd also try to hesitate making a big deal about it UNTIL you are done with the rest of the agreement. If, in the course of ongoing negotiations, he has the chance to go back to OW and discuss that particular provision she will hate it and get upset at him. She will NOT like being portrayed as a outsider and/or dangerous to the children. You want to get WH to decide this issue at the last minute and on his own. He'll give in, to get the deal done and won't consider OW's feelings if you sell it the right way.

Mr. Wondering

Good morning, all!



I think this is what he WANTS to have happen. But I also think that he knows better. I believe he is AFRAID of reality and once DDs meet her...that fantasy will be burst and he doesn't want to do that. Right now, he can continue to blame me for not letting this happen, but I would bet he is relieved also. He has conceded to me directly that he knows this is going take some time and won't rush them into meeting her. If he was going to do that, I would have thought he would have done it 2 weeks ago when he was so mad at me.

I think he has begun to think more clearly, especially when away from OW. He is asking to have DDs more and has called them more often. He has even changed his schedule so he could pick them up after school if need be. This are HUGE steps from where we were a few months ago...not in our relationship but with the relationship between DDs and WH. I really hope this he is doing this for them and not just to look good to everyone else. I think it is for them, but I don't trust his intentions anymore. It really ticks me off that he is taking these steps now, but it wasn't important enough when we were together.




I will work that angle carefully. I don't think it will be too difficult, I've already set the foundation in our other conversations, and now he is coming back with it as his own idea. That's okay.... as long as it is there, I don't care who gets credit.

It almost seems as though WH and OW do treat each other as outsiders at times. Neither one knows what is going on in the other one's marriage, other than they don't live with their spouse anymore. Or so it seems.....

I would somehow add to the statement that OW is still married and hasn't even filed for divorce.

If the judge imposed a restriction on that it would be quite a long time before the skank could be around your DD's!

Well, I really didn't think it would happen, but WH contacted my mother today to request days with DDs. At the time, I didn't understand why he wanted to be working out days right before the final hearing, but now I do. The hearing has been continued.

WH called my mother and told her that I didn't want him to call me anymore and that he was supposed to go through her about DDs. She said, yes, I know. Then he told her he wanted DDs tomorrow after school until 7pm and then Mon, Wed, & Fri after school until 5 when I could pick them up at his mothers. My response is below (via my mother):

Good morning, Mom

Hope all is well with you today. Thanks again for being an intermediary. I know it is a bit awkward for all of us but I really appreciate it. I know it seems a bit silly but I feel it is really what I need. You saw me when I came back from having those long talks with him....it isn't good for me to get all torn up and to be so drained for so long afterwards. I have to go on with my life and this is the first step towards doing that. Thank you for understanding.

As we discussed this morning, I'll email my understanding of his request to you and what I agree to and then you can just forward it to him. That way he and I both know exactly what is expected and you aren't caught in the middle with all those questions that pop up about the details. His email address is ######

As I understand it, WH has asked to have DD13 and DD12 on Wednesday, 01/31/07, from 2:45pm to 7:00pm. I need to know what the plan is after school...where are they supposed to go, is WH picking them up? We have to be in court at 1:30pm on Wednesday and I doubt we will be done by 2:45pm. I don't mind if they go with him on Wednesday, but I need to know what the plan is for after school. They need to have homework done and he needs to give them dinner before he brings them home at 7:00pm.

He's also asked to have them Monday, Wednesday, and Fridays from 2:45pm to 5:00pm. He says I could pick them up at WH mother's at 5:00. I need to have more information on this one. Is he picking them up after school or are they walking to WH mother's, or elsewhere? Is this time to be spent with him or his mother? This one could get difficult as volleyball and rodeo start. When would this begin, when would it end? Not completely out of question, but I need more info. My first inclination is to let it be decided tomorrow in court....I'm pretty sure he'll have at least one evening during the week. I dunno, though....need more info before I'll negotiate this issue.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

Talk to ya later!
BS

After sending this email, my lawyer called me back and said the hearing had been continued. We will not know when until the end of the week when my lawyer and WH lawyer get together to reschedule with the judge. It could be a couple of weeks, it could be a month. I imagine this is why WH was trying to set up dates, he already knew it had been continued. I don't like him knowing before I knew, especially when my lawyer is the one that requested the change.

After hearing this, I called my mother to let her know that WH may contact her to let her know the date has been changed and that he wants to set up a schedule in between. As we were talking, WH called her cell phone...she did not pick up and he left a message. I don't know why he didn't just email her back, that seems easier and less confusing for everyone.

Part of me wishes just to get it over and done with and the other wants to drag my feet until I KNOW D is what is best. I think it is right now, but I don't KNOW yet.

Please give me your thoughts....

1. Don't have her forward your emails to him. Then he is reading your words and getting a piece of you. It's contact.

2. He knew about the continuation first because your attorney sent his attorney a fax or email requesting. His attorney called your husband and got the OK from him before responding to your attorney. Typically, continuations are then summarily approved by the court assuming both sides are in agreement and file a jointly signed continuation.

Mr. Wondering

How do I handle it to get all the right info? He leaves out all the details that are important...times, who is picking them up or dropping them off, where they will be and with whom. Maybe give my mom a standard set of questions that she can go over when/if he calls so I make sure to get the details? I'm trying to make it less uncomfortable for her..but she says she is fine however I want to handle it. I just feel awkward telling her to tell him something he isn't going to like.

I can see your point about the continuation...but I would have thought my lawyer would have let me know that it was a definate....not wait for me to call to make sure I didn't have to show up in court tomorrow! I didn't even know what time court was supposed to be until I pulled up the judges docket on the website. It's a bit frustrating to be out of the loop.

I can see how this email thing is not going to work... the following is the response my mother got from WH.

Sue,

Yes, I agree with BS in the fact that this is 'a bit silly'. We are adults and should be able to communicate in a civil manner. I regret that she has put you in this position. This was her choice and hers alone. I have tried in the past to keep an open line of communication for the sake of DD13 and DD12. This was the way she wanted it in order for her to move on with her life.

I feel we need a set schedule for DD13 and DD12so they know when they will be with their Father and when they will be with their Mother until the courts decide otherwise.

A set schedule would give stability to the girls in knowing who they will be with and when. This will also benefit BS and allow her to move forward with whomever she chooses and have no further contact with me aside from emergencies relating to the girls.

To answer BS questions below:

For the days I have them after school, I will let the girls know whether I am picking them up or if they are walking to my mother's or elsewhere.

As far as volleyball and rodeo, I would expect a schedule to be either mailed or given to the girls to be given to me. At which time, we can negotiate time changes.

This schedule to start Monday, Feb 5th and go through the end of the school year to begin again the following school year.

The times are 2:45pm to 6:00pm Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

On Wednesday the 31st, I will be picking up the kids after school. BS can pick them up from my mother's at 7:00pm.


Again, I am sorry you are stuck in the middle. Hope this answers all the questions and that this removes you from the middle of this childishness.

Take care of yourself and SIL18.

Always, WH


I think this bothered him a little bit... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm preparing my response now. Not responding to anything other than the facts of DDs. Dates and times...that's it.

Anu suggestions on how to do this better?