your marriage is being raped and your wife would want to call it lovemaking

Thanks, I needed that.

BT

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

no problemo

lemme know when you need 'nother'azz'kickin

We're on your side... don't you forget it !

Pep

BT and everyone:

From a WS perspective, I can tell you that when you use ADULTERY, it stings HORRIBLY. Affair almost sounds acceptable with the morality of today.

Therefore, again from a FWS perspective, USE THE ADULTERY WORD! Don't use anything other than that because she is committing adultery. You can look at my profile and see that what I did was purely online in chatrooms and by webcam. Ah, he77, I'll tell you I was getting off with guys. I didn't think of that as adultery because I wasn't physically touching anyone (except me), but the reality is that once I saw the pain in my wife's eyes, I realized that even if I didn't think at the time I was committing adultery, she did. There are times I say to myself that I didn't commit adultery, but at those times I remind myself that it was - if for no other reason than Jesus' definition of adultery, and it still stings to call it adultery sometimes, but the fact is, I COMMITTED ADULTERY.

It stings so much because I always thought I was Christian. To me, adultery is so ugly as to almost be a literal death sentence for me (I have ADD and problems with depression-dysthimia).

I go through all this so you know where I am coming from. If your wife has any belief in biblical principals, the word Adultery will eventually hurt like you know what. I am different in some ways because of my method of Adultery, but ultimately, I am just the same as other FWS and was just the same as WSs, except after reading Survivinginfidelity.com, I told my wife the exact nature of what I did, how I did it and with whom (i.e. men. There was nobody specific.) and I answered everything she asked when she asked. I also quit committing my sin on DDay and, because of Jesus' love for me and you, I haven't gone back.

Remember, Adultery is sin!!!!!!!!!!! Any Christian who is really knows Jesus will eventually be convicted and turn around.

Don't know if this helps, but I just prayed for you and your relationship. May God bless you and, eventually, your wife, in the way that only He knows is in His will. Right now, I have no problem with saying your Wife is pretty well ignoring anything that God is telling her and, hence, is not in His will.

God bless. (and keep using Adultery as the term)

Jim

P.S. I agree with Pepper that your should make it clear that you condemn the sin and not the sinner.

Jim,

Thank you for the perspective of a FWS. I will keep saying adultery. Based on developments in the last hour it looks like my opportunities to say anything may be minimal. I'll post something on that shortly.

BT

So much for posting something shortly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, my WW hasn't called, nor have I called her. I do know part of her reaction though. She doesn't plan to see me anymore. How that will work when we have other non-adultery issues we'll both need to talk about is beyond me. If she'll check her emails morning and night rather than every week or two, that might work for most things.

Our younger daughter and her husband invited me, WW, & our son to dinner tomorrow night. WW was the last to get the call. She asked if I would be there and then told our daughter that since I would be, she couldn't come. I'm making her life miserable in an extremely bad way. She was willing to be friends but not now. (Really? Then why did she not show up when dinner for the same 5 of us was at my place New Year's Day?) I'm stalking her, have probably been in her house in her absence, and hired someone to follow her around. "He's just going crazy." She told our daughter that the stalking had been going on a while but it's getting extremely out of hand. I'm scaring her, and she can't be around me anymore. Our daughter, having been put on the spot, told her that then she would un-invite me. After talking it over with her husband she called back and called dinner off altogether.

I had been thinking about what to do if she ever pulled this over family functions. My first thought was to let her be the one to attend, hoping that keeping family contacts might help. My second thought was, of course, the opposite. Maybe isolation would do some good, although there wouldn't be total isolation as she would still be free to talk to or see anyone if I wasn't around. In two weeks our first grandchild is having her first birthday party 200 miles away. Looks like the burning question now won't be whether we ride together there and back. Our oldest daughter may decide that neither of us should show up. (I'll lobby, if I get to, for both or neither and put the ball in my wife's court.) I'm also scheduled to be the wedding photographer when my wife's nephew marries in late March. How's that supposed to work now? If anyone has any advice (or stories) about these type situations, I'm listening.

I've also spoken to the OMW twice today. She doesn't want any other info from me, her husband has admitted the affair. I made sure to reemphasize that this has been going on for 15 months since I know as of last night he only admitted "2 or 3 times." She also told me that their marriage hasn't been good for 10-12 years. I asked her if he gave assurances that it was over. They're supposed to talk about that today. She'll let me know the outcome. I didn't tell her that I believe my wife talked to the OM for almost 2 hours today when she left her house. I believe they met, but it could be that she talked to him on her cell phone (not wanting to talk from home as our late sleeping 18 year-old was there and might interrupt or perhaps hear her in an emotional moment).

That's the latest.

BT

they all say this crap

she wants you to be "nice"and adjust to her adultery so she can feel good about herself

friendship with a price tag ... yeah, sure

the family dinner thingy

call your daughter & her hubby and invite them out to a restaurant
be jovial
don't bring up subject of nasty WW comments (remember ... your REAL W is not nasty, only the WW is nasty)

say:

"I'd like to treat you to dinner at (restaurant). We can just relax and enjoy a great meal. Let me know."

YOU make the effort to build an alliance there ... by NOT being crazy, vindictive, or even critical of WW ... you can always be critical of "adultery" ... but stay off subject of WW ...

if forced into that corner you can simply say

"This mid-life-crisis sure has taken it's toll. Makes me sad for your Mom. But I remain hopeful for our marriage in the long run."

or:

"Everyone deserves a second chance."

if possible COMPLIMENT your *wife* in front of the kids ... not the WW, mind you, but your real wife

it will get back to her that you seem calm and reasonable

Plan A via the adult children

it's been done successfully before

Pep

Hiya, BT...

Well, it sounds like this is all going pretty much by the script. Don't become to obsessed about how thing are "today", because you WW will have a wavering outlook from day to day, and as her shock (displayed to you as anger) begins to subside, things will begin to calm down.

The critical point is this...how much damage to the A did the exposure create? With the OM try to return to the marriage...and/or will his BS accept him. (You might want to direct her to the MB books and this site, if you haven't) Your WW will start to calm down and see things a bit more realistically. Exposure is a great fog-cutter.

If/when you have the chance for interaction with you WW, don't start talking about the affair, your marriage, or anything heavy. Try to introduce a sense of normalcy into your encounters. Be polite, courteous and interested in what she has to say, if anything. Otherwise, if you want to converse with her, talk about current events, the kids or any other neutral subject in which she might engage.

Then the next step will be to generate opportunities to be able to make deposits in her Love Bank. Whatever you can convince her to do. Just coffee, maybe lunch, whatever....attending events with kids/family are naturals.

No Love Busters! Plan A all the way. Stay in touch as best possible with OM's W for info on their sitch, as that knowledge is power.

I still think you need to expose the adultery to the OM's employer, mucho pronto!!!

Hang on...it's a wild ride!

SD

but if you share this site with OMW

be sure to tell her that for now

she should NOT show this site to her WH

because

if your WW gets a look at this site
where she stands now, she will use your plan against you

for now
this site is your refuge from the storm

inviting a full-blown WW who is heck-bent on marriage destruction to MB usually results in a flame-fest

avoid if possible

Pep

The word "Adultery" is accurate for what your wife is doing and not a judgmental term.

[color:"blue"]"Adultery
noun
Extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations; adultery is often cited as grounds for divorce"[/color]

Calling it an "affair" sugar coats it and implies its something romantic. <gag>

Yeah, what Pep said, too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I like that Plan A idea. Thanks for mentioning it.

BT

Hey SD...

As of yet I don't know the level of damage. I also don't know what will happen with OM & OMW. She told me earlier today that they would be talking about whether he would stop the affair but I've heard nothing since. I do have a copy of SAA to give her.

My wife can be a very stubborn woman. The marriage needed changes for sure. I've got to be sure there are plenty of obvious changes in me by the time the fog recedes.

Good thoughts (and the way I've been handling things up to now). If anyone brings up the adultery it will be her. I do expect her to tell me I talked to the OMW to get back at my WW and because I'm too obsessed with my wife to understand that the marriage is over (similar to things she has said before).

This will be a tough one, at least for now. Knock on wood things will get better in the future but for now the best I can hope for are contacts about taxes, new health insurance, new life insurance policies, etc.

Absolutely no Love Busters. I'm not sure what future contact I'll have with the OMW. If she doesn't want more (which is what I'm sensing now) I'll definitely ask her to contact me if anything changes which could affect my marriage (plus ask if she wants to know if the adultery resumes or continues).

I'm on the fence here too. I think I might only do this if the OMW approves. Right now I'm sure she doesn't understand No Contact despite the (few) references I made. I had hoped to be able to talk to her for at least an hour initially, but we only had about 20 minutes, and she was unwilling to wait a day before confronting.

Thanks, SD. Reading things here really helps me. When she says things I know that other WS have said I'm much less likely to take it personally.

BT

Thanks Pep. I mentioned marriagebuilders to the OMW when we talked Friday but I don't think she paid much attention. I'm not going to mention it again. I'm more concerned about the OM getting on here. When I left the OMW Friday evening she planned to tell the OM that the pictures had been delivered anonymously (while I preferred her to say she had hired a private investigator for a while). What really happened is that she told him the whole story. I will be very careful in the future with what I tell her, especially with respect to how I know what I know.

BT

Agreed, Resilient. Affair to me sounds more like some fru-fru small party where we sit around and nibble hor'devours. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BT

Okay, finally a quick update of recent events....

Still nothing directly from my wife, but I do know that she is bringing out her revisionist history (and has added things I've never heard her say before). Here is just some of what she told adult daughter #2:

• 1. When daughter #1 was due, I planned to go see my girlfriend in Austin and not be there (but did stay). - Some truth but mainly not. Actually that was to attend the wedding in Lake Charles of the 'girl' (age 22 or 23, I think) who was my desk mate during a 3 month government training class in Austin the previous year. The wedding was a week (might have been two) before the due date. Yeah, I was a jerk and told her I was going but after thinking about it backed off (and this was without additional heat from my wife, as best I recall).
  
  2. "Do you know how many girlfriends he has had?" - Hmmm... That would be 8 at most. If you don't count those before age 12, I'm down to two. One of those is my wife; I don't think she means to count herself. If we call the married woman from my EA in 1986 a girlfriend (and I guarantee she wouldn't have considered herself such nor did I think of her in those terms) the answer is one; if not, call it zero.
  
  3. "I will not put up with that kind of abuse and why I did it for years I don't know. If I can get one year of happiness in my life that's all I need." - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
  
  4. "I just can't be with him anymore. I've paid my dues.....but I'm happy for the first time in my life, so I don't regret it, I deserve it, I've had way too much crap." - Nice justification for adultery, I guess.

I don't know if she'll trot this out to everyone, but I would expect she'll say something similar at some point to her sister and to our older daughter. If she says any of this to me is calmly disagreeing the recommended response? Does a WS really believe what they're saying, or are they just so used to lying that it's no big deal to lie to create doubt about me?


Fun times (not).

BT

If a Wayward's lips are moving, they are lying <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SD

Quick update.

As far as a plan goes, I believe I'll need to schedule a phone counseling session or two. I may still post something in this thread or start a new one, we'll see.

The continuation of what happened after exposure is in this thread: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

I'll be doing an update over there shortly. In a nutshell though I'll tell you that the fury of my WW is burning brightly. The PA continues but is better hidden. My wife has refused to pay me anything now although we had agreed on a "for now" amount months ago (sort of spousal support but nothing in a legal sense). For more to the story, check the other thread.