My husband is a perfect example of a very mean passive aggressive person. He is unwilling to give anything to our recovery to fix us. He tells me he is sorry for speaking to me the way he does, but continues to do it...and just gets worse. When we fight, its always my fault. There was always some reason I gave him for his reaction. Sometimes I get that 'his reaction was just not that bad...I am overreacting as usual.' I could go on and on and on about how he treats me. I could write a book on the mean hateful things he does had has done for years to me.

He is very vindictive and controlling. He has no compassion for anything I need. Every crisis in our lives, he totally withdraws and leaves me to pick up the pieces. When my mother died, he left me for 2 days for me to arrange the funeral by myself. Actually not only was he not there, but he drove by that morning to laugh at me because 'how could I get to the funeral home.' He did come home the night before the funeral...but I am still very very bitter about dealing with this alone. Why didnt I leave him then?

When I was pregnant with DD10 he would start fights so he could go out and drink. I wouldnt see or hear from him all weekend. This was a pretty much every weekend ritual. Like he never cheated...yeah right. I even received a call one day from a woman saying how much fun she was having with him since I was too fat too. He later said he wasnt really with her, he had the bartender do that because I made him mad by calling him on his cell phone. HELLO I am pregnant and sitting home alone every weekend. Yes, I'm going to call wondering where you are. Why didnt I leave him then?

In some of our recent fights he has sunk to an all new low. In trying to prove to me how unworthy I am of love he will say "Your own father didnt love you. He killed himself to get away from you." I wouldnt tell my worst enemy that! He also recently brought when I was raped as a teen saying "Ha Ha you were ruined by your rape. You have the loosest ***** ever and no one would have you." I do not have to defend myself on this one. But why would he want me to think about the things that hurt me the most...at Christmas especially??? I have been so depressed I cant concentrate at work, I cant sleep, and unfortunately all I can do is eat. I've gained 20 lbs in the past 3 months from this undying hatred.

Just to give you insight on the past year...he was having an EA with my best friend. I am sure it was also PA but they wont admit it. No excuses...I went looking for validation myself and had a ONS. But, I felt so much shame and guilt I told him what I did. I hated and still hate myself for what I did to him. I will honestly never do anything like that again. I know he has cheated many times in the past even though I have no 100% proof. But when I did it that was his validation to go out do what he wanted...and be single again. He had 8 or 10 ONS within the next month or so...he says I got what I deserved. He will not accept any of my pain. I cant hurt because I asked for it...that is what I wanted. I am at my witts end. He says he wants to work things out and be a family. We have even moved from our home town to a new city to get away from both of our ONS. Sometimes I wonder if I did my ONS to get out. But I dont want out...I just want to be happy with him.

We are supposed to be in recovery, but yet, he continues to belittle me and make me feel worthless. The thing about that though...he has always done that. Its not like he's only doing it because he is hurt, because I have endured it for almost 13 years. What about the years before all of this?

Here are some all day, every day examples of how he speaks to me making me feel worthless. We recently got a new puppy. Well he is of course chewing up things. He chewed on some cords of my DS2 new Christmas gift. He called me and cussed me out saying "I told you I didnt want a dog. Why dont you ever listen to me? That was the stupidest thing I could have let you get away with." First of all it was a stupid cord. So I get attacked?? Another example...he wakes up late and its "why the **** didnt you wake me up? Are you trying to get me fired?" Hello, I overslept too! Does he really think I did it on purpose? When I make something good for dinner he says nothing...but if there is something he doesnt like I get, "Never make that again...it was nasty." Doesnt matter if the kids, or God forbid, I like it...he doesnt so I cant make it again. These seem like little things...but 13 years day in and day out takes a toll on you.

He says he doesnt know why he talks to me the way he does and that he doesnt mean the things he says. He says I know he doesnt mean those things. But how can I when that is all I ever get. He says he doesnt want me to be unhappy and he wants us to be happy again.

So how long to I hold on? How much do I do on my own to fix us, when it seems he does everything he does to sabotage our recovery? Is it even possible? It seems the only time we get along is when I am not asking for anything from him emotionally. When I ask...not only do I not get what I ask for...but I get that much less and even more pain. I feel as though we are hopeless. But I know he loves me...he just doesnt know how to. But at what point does that not justify his actions?

From reading other posts I am sure I will get plenty of people telling me what I am doing wrong. Well you know what...I am done trying. I have given into him over and over and over. I have overlooked so much just to keep the peace. But if he wont try then its never going to work...right?

Is there any hope?

Carrie

Carrie, welcome to MB. There are several of us here who are dealing with P/A (passive/aggressive) spouses. Yours, however, sounds more full-blown aggressive than passive. He is extremely cruel and from what you have posted, seems to have no decent qualities at all.

Please take a look at the two links below in my sig line. They will get you started. Please feel free to ask any questions that come up.

Good luck.
Mulan

Are you able to support yourself, and live apart if you had to?

Your husband is just plain abusive. I suggest you get some counseling for yourself, so you can get healthier.

And this, T2HO, is where you have failed. Stop overlooking, start addressing .. without lovebusting.

Peace be damned. Never lay down to be trampled for the sake of peace.

Work on yourself. For a moment, turn off your reflex of "What will make him happy?" or "What will keep him happy?" ..That's getting you into trouble. ..start asking yourself "What makes me happy? and why? (that doesn't have anything to do with your husband)"

When you are the point to where you can answer this question: "Why in the **** did I take that for so long?" and give yourself an honest answer..and believe it...then you're where you need to be to properly fight this battle.

Inshock I agree...I should have never overlooked things. That gave him more ability to continue that type of abuse. And unfortunely the answer to the question of Why in the ** did I stay...because I have not been strong. I have alway had a low self esteem, and he has made me to believe that I could not make it on my own. You are right...I do need to work on myself. I do not like the person I have become. I used to be strong minded and intelligent. Now I can barely pay attention. My children are suffering because of this too. I have to start living for us.

Believer - Yes, I can support myself...I can always get a PT job to help out too. I am not afraid to work. But, I wont be able to stay in our current house if he does not help me. I do know that I need some counciling. Not only for the marriage but also for the rest of my messed up life. I have plenty of issues to deal with.

We actually just met at lunch and decided that he is going to get an apartment. He did say he will stay in our new city. I was also afraid he would leave the kids to go back to his hometown. He has also said he will give me the money for our rent each month so the kids do not have to move again. I dont know how long that will last though....I cant count on it. It is about equal to what I would expect to get for child support. He agrees to continue to work on our marriage, but I am sure he will be out at the bars looking for his own validation. I will not be able to handle any more of that.

I just cant believe its happening. I sat in the parking lot of my work for 30 mins crying. But the weirdest thing...I also feel a bit of relief. I am scared, and I am going to miss him being in the house protecting us, but I have to do this for me...for my children. I am ready to be the person that I want me to be.

All right. Take a deep breath. He said it. He means it. BELIEVE HIM! That is his truth. You need to work from here. I realize it is a heck of a rope to hang onto--but it is all you really need.

Now print out the quote and tape it on an index card. Laminate the card and carry it with you always. Keep it in your pocket--wear it on a cord around your neck if you have to.

Now the next time he says something that hurts you, touch the card (without him seeing you) and simply say to him, "ouch". Do not retaliate with words (ie: say something 'mean' back) Do not explain yourself. Do not criticize him. Do not say ANYTHING except ouch. If he asks why or what do you mean...just say "your words hurt me." To this he will probably say something like, "You are crazy" or "you are too sensitive" Then you can say "ouch" again. When he realizes that you will only say "ouch" -- that you will not get sucked into his evil vortex, he will have no choice but the end the spiral (for the time being).

You will have your work cut out for you and it will not be easy. But you have your "rope" to hold onto. See? it is laminated and safe in your pocket.

And don't let him know you have this card--not yet anyway.
There is a lot more work to be done before you can trust him with that kind of information <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

But I dont get it. So I am just to continue to take his mean words? Years ago...even before the ONS...I took it upon my own realization that the more I give him to feed on, the more painful it is. I never talked back to him...I never demanded love. We got along...as far as we werent yelling at each other...but he was still hurting me with his words....I just was not expressing my pain. Where did that get me...no where.

Anyway - I think he likes to hear when things he says hurts me. At least when he says them. He has even said...that is why he does it...because when we are arguing he just wants me to hurt. He only says those things to hurt me...not because he means them. WHATEVER! Like that is love. Ok...so I love you...so I'm going to say the worse possible thing I can to hurt you...again and again and again.

It doesnt make sense to me to allow him to continue on.

As a matter of fact. It was lunchtime...2 hours ago when we talked about splitting up. We decided he would stay in the house for 2 more weeks. However, he was going to Cinci this weekend. Well he has already informed me that he will not be leaving until tomorrow because he is going out. (My daughter has a friend here that stayed for winter break and he was going to drive home tonight...but now he cant). After some prodding...turns out he's going out with a girl that he works with. NICE! Ok we'll work on the marriage...but let me go ahead and get some right fast.

Why did I waste so many years???? I hate myself for not being strong enough to get up and leave earlier!!!!
OMG I just cant believe this is happening!!

Please read the links in my sig line, especially the first one. They will explain a lot.

You are not imagining it - he DOES say and do things to delibertely hurt you and he DOES feel better when he knows you are hurt.

When you are hurt, two things happen:

1) He knows that he has all the power in the relationship and you have none.
2) He gets to be the poor innocent victim of your anger and pain. (It's good to be a victim because victims are never responsible for what's happening).

Please read those links ASAP.
Mulan

I am reading them as we speak. To be honest it is just encouraging me with the descision I made...to leave. If that is how he is, then how will I ever change him. You can change some things about yourself, but not the core of your person though. He is even like this to his parents, friends, etc.

Today talking, he said yes I know I hurt you but when I get upset things are going to happen. Its not something you can stop...if something upsets you then you are going to react.

Heres how he reacts...last night we took the kids for pizza and games. He left his cigs at home. I have been sick as a dog for a couple weeks (of course no help from him with that either) so I didnt have any cigs. We were on our way home and I asked him to stop at the store for diapers. He started to pull into a regular store. I said no better go to kroger, their diapers will be twice as much for half the amount. He got all pissed off at me because it was "going to take you another 30 mins before I get a cig." WTF so I am going to waste money so he can have a cig a few mins earlier. Whatever! But I am overreacting when it hurts me that he calls me a stupid ***** for getting a dog!?!?!?

The more and more I think about it. I know I am making the best choice. We need to be away from each other. It will either relief me of the daily verbal attacks, or will make him wake up to his need to provide more compromise. I do love him...and I am IN love with him. But the pain is so big right now.

T2HO...

I posted to you on the P/A thread...

Have you learned all about boundaries and standards? Think of what Pieta is telling you...accept what your H says as his truth...he does love you. That doesn't mean you accept his actions.

Boundary enforcements are around you...they match standards, which you define, and which you act from.

Choosing to believe HE LIKES to hear when thing he says hurts you...well, hurts YOU. That's a DJ. You have lots of them. They are hurting you, your partner and your marriage. You don't know that they are doing this...we're hear to tell you they are.

From our own experience.

You have no control over allowing him to do or not do. All you control is removing yourself from him...or staying present and taking progressive, predetermined boundary enforcements.

You didn't waste any years...you just kept trying to get from him what you wouldn't do for yourself. You're not alone. No time is wasted...you only have right now. Stop handing him the power to destroy and cure you...he doesn't want it, fears it, is dying under the burden of it...and it's not real. You can only be the cause, control and cure of yourself. Same for him.

Hating yourself means you will hate others. You've made him into an enemy, which means you make yourself into an enemy of you...stop. Stop. You are as capable, powerful and limited as all of us...please choose differently.

LA

No. That is why you say "ouch". You are not 'accepting' his mean words by saying 'ouch'--or giving them back.

What other devices are there to stop taking his mean words? Wash his mouth out with soap?

Trust me. Try this. What do you have to lose?

He hurts you with words because you are hurting him with words. That is what an argument is--a downward spiral of hurting each other with words.

There are two reasons people do things: a) because it avoids pain or b) because it is pleasing to do.

You are both thinking the same thing: "Hurt them till they do what you want."

This method might work in the army or a parent/child relationship. But NOT IN A MARRIAGE. It is short-sighted and leads to a collapse of the relationship.

If you are arguing then you are both being bullies--both trying to be 'right'

Doing things for each other must become a pleasure. If you stick around here you can learn how to feel generous and to make your husband feel generous.

So I still dont get it. Are you really telling me to stay and say ouch when he belittles me? Saying nothing to him does not make him stop!! He will continue, but not have his nagging wife telling him how to talk.

I have been belittled my entire life. My mother couldnt stand me. I was her verbal and physical punching bag. My father killed himself...to get away from me so says my husband. I was always told I was never good enough, never liked enough, no matter how much I did for people.

I cannot take anymore of his or anyone else's belittling. There is no ouch that is going to help me. I have got to rebuild my heart. I am dead inside. I am not strong enough to listen to anymore. Please tell me I am misunderstanding you. Please tell me you are not encouraging me to stay in this abusive relationship??

I think about how strong I used to be. I really cannot believe I am going through this feeling so weak. I am about to break!! Sometimes I wish the Lord would just take me and end this pain! I am a good person...and I have to find myself again. He has killed me inside. There is nothing left but an empty shell.

I dont know...maybe I didnt really want opinions. Maybe I just needed to vent.

Your emotions are primarily chemical events within your own body. As such, emotions cannot be "caused" by others, even your husband. He can say things that trigger those feelings. But he cannot cause them--only you can!

I suspect you are over sensitive to the triggers because of you FOO issues.

Trying2, just take your time and read those links, especially the first one. I think you willl see that you are not alone. Then come back here and we'll talk about it. Okay?
Mulan