Well, this is my first post. Wish I wasn't here, but I'm sure you all know this type of story.

First, the background. My wife and I have been married 20 years. Three kids 9,13,15. We both are Christians with pretty conservative backgrounds. We started a business a few years back and started a friendship with a guy in this same business - he was our "mentor" of sorts. Turns out, since 2002 his "mentoring" covered a hidden agenda and by 2003 he became the OM while he and my wife had numerous clandestine encounters. The killer is, we'd ALL go out on occasion as mutual friends. Some of my other friends saw red flags in our "threesome", but my W and I always seemed to have a high level of mutual trust in each other - which apparently made me pretty naiive as I look back.

My W said to me in 2002 that we needed counseling because I wasn't meeting her needs. We tried a few different counselors, but each time I'd go away with the same counsel that I was not connecting with her Love Language, not filling her Love Tank, not reaching her deepest needs. I was too wrapped up in business responsibilities. So, I'd try working on these areas, but never experienced any reciprocation from her. Love Language is a 2-way street. I tried to learn hers, but she virtually ignored mine. Very confusing.

Fast forward to October 2006. The OM "friend" visited at our request. I watched them carefully and noticed how my wife brightened when he was around. At the conclusion of his visit, I stated to him that that our relationship had to end due to "perceptions of impropriety". Upon the strong suggestion of a friend who "knew" more than I, I confronted my W a few days later with direct questioning - after first counseling with our pastoral staff on the "how to's". She reluctantly admitted an affair. Now the twists.

My W did not repent, did not apologize, did not admit "wrongness". My initial counsel was to give then her an ultimatum with her bags packed, but following additional counsel with the pastor, she and I agreed to meet with a "biblical" Marriage Counselor. During the first week after D-Day I cracked her e-mail password and produced 500 pages of him&her communications. Indeed, he got all the love and emotional connection from her for at least 3 years. He was a "de facto husband in absentia" in effect.

I am spiritually stronger and very willing to forgive, heal, make changes, and move ahead. I now realize the weakness in my husbanding skills and see where the foundational cracks came from. My W has still not confessed, asked forgiveness, or anything. She's on a "journey" to reconnect with God according to the counselor and he says the repentance may take a long time. She "informed" her family of her now-ended (?) affair, but she did not apologize or ask forgiveness for wrongdoing. They are still confused and suspicious. My W converses with girlfriends who can act as a laison from the OM. There may still be texting or VM going on, but I promised our counselor that I would back off and give her space. My "snooping" wouldn't change her and would only throw me into anger or depression if it turned up continued contact.

Meanwhile, I live each day with this emotional "knife" still in my back. She is cordial to me but oblivious to the distress she is keeping me in. She can even be "nice" to me at times - of sorts. But it's pretty superficial - as is our communication. There is no sex. No affirmation. No emotional connection from her. Although the first few weeks put me through subtantial emotional convulsions, deep anger, near rage, etc, I am now settled for the most part and willing and ready to forgive (believe it or not). She seems far from ready and is not willing to move that far in the process. In her mind, to do so will condemn her to a life a "misery" with me. She is strong willed and, if I didn't know better, struggling with mid-life crisis. She's tired of work, tired of the kids, tired of me. I feel stonewalled in my efforts to reconnect with her and her lack of remorse/repentance leaves me suspicious and very untrusting. Then there's our 3 kids who have been deprived of a balanced home where mom & dad demonstrate their affection for each other. The kids don't know mom is an adultress. Her family is "on my side" (which ticks her off) but they are just keeping a low profile right now. Her mom is even wondering if at some point the family & sibs should step in if she doesn't show some positive progress.

Guess I'm just looking for feedback. Am I on the right track? Should I just keep a low profile and give her the space she needs? Am I right to withhold "trust" until there is repentance? Where does "tough love" enter in - is there a toleration point where I say "this far, no more"? What about protecting the kids from the knowledge? YIKES! Your help is appreciated! (By the way, yes, I do love her even though she has trashed my heart).

ABetrayedHubby

So, I'm 90 days into the recovery... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

First of all, welcome to MB. I am sorry that you have to be here.

The first thing you need to do is read SAA, and get an understanding of why your WW had this affair. Fill out the ENs and LB questionnaires.

Your WW is typical of WSs. They rarely express remorse right after the A. Even if they did it would only be an effort to placate you. Afterall, they just got done cheating on you, and they probably didn't want it to end. They are probably pissed at you for getting in the way of their "true love" and "trapping" them in a "bad marriage." They have all these layers of rationalizations and justifications to protect them from feeling guilt about what they were doing, and it takes a lot of hard effort of Plan A to slowly peel those back. I think that this can be a very hard and confusing time for a BS because the affair has just been killed, and we think we have won the battle, but the war is just getting started. This will be a long journey, but after around 6 months your WW may be showing remorse for what she did and put more effort into the marriage. Right now your WW is in withdrawal, and is pining for the OM, not you.

As for "space," that is what got you in trouble in the first place. You need to protect your marriage first and foremost. I'm sorry if it hurts you if things turn up, or it pisses your WW off that she is being snooped on, but it is the consequences of her actions. Don't let her know she is being snooped on, but verify NC is being maintained. Otherwise this runs the risk of perpetual withdrawal or even a recurrance of the affair. WS are just like addicts. Let me makes this analogy. Your WS is like an alcoholic, and by not snooping, you are allowing her to sneak drinks here and there without you noticing. Your WW will NEVER recover as long as you allow her to do this. Continued voice or text messages are dangerous. Find out how to close this loophole to ensure that there is not continued contact. Verify this on the cell phone bill. You need to enact boundaries for the marriage that she may not cross lest there be consequences, and you need to enforce those boundaries. Also, this friend who acts as a liason between WW and OM is dangerous as well. M2L had this problem with his WW, and it majorly hampered their recovery efforts.

Read up on this board and other people's stories, and learn from our past dealings. Affairs are eerily similar and you can learn a lot of lessons from posters and their stories. Good luck, but you need to be patient with this. You are going to have to do the heavy lifting in this marriage by yourself for quite some time.

~welcome~

I doubt this is "recovery"
I suspect she is "on hold" and planning something ... perhaps something worse ... like taking off with the kids

I urge you to put a GPS on her car
as you Plan A

part of Plan A is EXPOSURE

but hold off just a little... wait for a few weeks to expose

snoop like you work for Homeland Security

but Plan A like you suspect ~nothing~
get her to relax

if she is still addicted (my money says YES) ... the addict in her will soon enough overpower her good sense ... and she will make choices that will become obvious to you the affair is merely stalled, not stopped

so I urge you
meet her needs
do not love bust
but SNOOP like a stealth warrior

you are fighting for your family

and sadly, the WW is the enemy as much as the OM

you are fighting for your REAL W
and the WW is the enemy of her as well

I am so sorry

this CAN work out
but you need a PLAN

ACT ... don't REact

GPS
watch phone records
secure the finances by canceling credit cards save one

try to keep affair-discussions at a minimum for now

I think she's not reached her true lowest bottom ... yet

God Bless

Pep

My first advice is read all the responses frm others. It may be slow at first because of the holiday. But you can be certain that there can be no recovery unless the A has ended. The A cannot end unless there is NC with OM. Dont trust the infidels to agree to NC. Read and study this web site.
Continue snooping (albeit dont get discovered) - Not sure why a Christian counselor would say back off and give some space? Giving space just allows the A to flourish and besides now that the word is out - it has gone underground. Three years is long time for an A to bloom - doesnt sound like it ended at all.

Wow. My thread is rolling along here. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

Here's some more info:

My BW currently cell-texts and retrieves VM quite a bit - I own the account but she has her own number. BUT I have NO way to trace the SOURCES of texting and VM w/o getting her phone to read the texts and she has a password on her own VM. I KNOW that the A included LOTS of e-mail, texting. I'm uncomfortable with the lack of knowing the sources of her cellphone contacts but HOW can I possibly make demands and not Love Bust?

Our Counselor suggested that I turn over the 500 pgs of emails to his custody in order to demonstrate my "releasing" of the situation and put the reconciliation ball in her court. I did this just before the holiday break. Good faith. Hmmm. Seems more a touchy-feely approach than a "let's talk this through" approach (my preference). For now, a keep a low profile and pray ALOT.

She DOES show positive indicators of being on a "Journey" (OK, I'm on one too!). She is reading "Ragamuffin Gospel" as a devotional as well as another devotional. I must assume her sincerity. But I still sense that she is trying to deal with internal issues. The Counselor believes there is progress, but her lack of remorse/repentance REALLY sends me a mixed signal.

She originally had a cell phone from the OM ("business use" - ha) which dumb me let go for the 3 years. OK, so I was over-the-top naiive and trusting. Anyway, a week after D-Day, she FINALLY gave me the phone. Then a NEW one turned up 2 weeks later. I nabbed it and went to the Counselor with it. That ended that. With her regular cell phone (family account) I know there was minor texting as late as Thanksgiving. I've wanted to avoid major confrontation in order to protect the kids from knowing what mom had done with "uncle___" (or so they called the OM.)

I think she knows her goose is cooked and I suspect she's in such a fog - wanting to keep control of a situation which can EASILY escalate to become her personal life psunami - it'll damage the kids, she lose her family, and become lost in uncertainty. Maybe she thinks my compassion and understanding will allow the crisis to drift away. I don't think so.

I am planning a meeting with my pastor this week and am going to ask that we move this thing along into the controlled confrontation level. I wish to move ahead with healing, but this MUST be a two-person operation taking the bull by the horns. And through all this, I want to protect the kids innocence. There seems to be a fine balance between Tough Love and Love Busting....

Thanks again.

My first impression from your post is same as PEP's.

Shes very good at picking up on whats going on is such situations

You've just begun this fight and it will take time, probably some time not just weeks or a few months if the affair has been so long term to recover or have a new a marriage.

But you can do this, read up as has been suggested.

ummmmmm... give him copies
put the originals in a safety deposit box

you do NOT love bust
you choose a boundary and enforce it

you should NEVER financially support an activity that is hostile to your family

cancel TEXT messaging

without explaination to WW

when she protests ... you say "I will no longer pay for text messaging that puts my family at risk."

end of explaination

if she protests .. repeat your boundary

a boundary is about something YOU do to protect yourself and your family

it is all "I" statements ... with no "you" comments

then
if voice message becomes an issue
cancel payments for that as well

one at a time

Pep

read this thread when you have the time

PLAN A

Again, thank you all for your comments. I know that the OM is STILL sending my WW celltext and short "hope"-filled e-mails. As recent as last week. SideBar: Back in October the snake OM drove to my town to meet with me, offer his apologies for the A, get the cell phones, and say his goodbye. I had my pastor witness the apology. That was a very weird, surreal experience. So much for his sincerity. I'd love to show up at his location for some serious "back-off" persuasion, but I do not know where to draw the line between demonstrating Christian virtue and getting in his face with some serious threats (or actions) which could introduce legal and character-related problems for me.

I do not see any record of my WW's replies to his recent e-mails, but these can be easily deleted by her. Funny, she knows I can access her e-mail cuz I got the password...but the account is still active, although pretty quiet. I made a point to the Counselor 2 weeks ago that if I turned in the e-mail docs, she should show good faith in vaporizing her account. Well, it's still there. Hmmmm. I can at-will download the entire account to hard disk. Alas, I still have some patience. I think that, rather than being sinister, she is stuck in neutral - in the Fog. SO....my question:

SHOULD I push our crisis to the next level and ratchet up the heat by getting my WW into the pastor's office with the Counselor, ask her some penetrating questions, and force a "fish or cut bait" scenario? Or is this an inadvisable ultimatum? This situation HAS to be be fully brought out into the light of day (I think). My WW really dislikes confrontation. I'm thinking that I need to really grab the bull by the horns this week or next because we are nearing the 90-day mark from D-day. Heck, I'm game for a multi-year recovery, but sheesh, my WW HAS to show sincerity and desire for this. After her 3-4 year A, part of me thinks it'll take a bit longer than 90 days for her to clear the Fog and see her betrayal for what it is and the potential destruction which lay in store! Should I stay the course, but turn up a LITTLE heat? If so, where?

Thanks!

BetrayedHubby

Forget the OM - he is totally and utterly irrelevant.

Your wife is broken. You need a key logger on the computer so you KNOW what she is doing.

Forget the ultimatums - but get her in the pastors office for a truth session.

With a long affair, her having a long withdrawal especially given renewed contact is not unexpected.

Don't expect remorse or repentance or regret for a while. They will come. Just be patient.

Pep:

Here's a twist- My WW "consoled" and "counseled" the OM during his pre-divorce time in 2004-2005. This was over the phone. I thought nothing of it, although I wasn't a fly on the wall. OK, you can whip me now.... He divorced in 2005. So, there's no wife to inform. He has a couple of grown kids and a Mom/Dad (70s) living near him. I don't think his kids knowing would amount to much. But his parents - well THAT's different. But I'd hate to have this information initiate a heart attack. I don't now that he is attending a church anymore, and he lost his previous job so he's self-employed. So, my exposure on his side is limited. Any suggestions? I'd love to turn up the heat on him somehow.

BetrayedHubby

Yes - Expose to his children and parents. That will be a few degrees of heat.

First, welcome to MB.

In order to accurately monitor the email, please install a keylogger. These are essential for this kind of monitoring.

I would say nothing about closing the email account but just monitor. There are so many free email places out there, she may have another one you are not even aware of. A key logger and other monitoring software can help with this.

Others can give you the best info on the proper keylogger. From my memory Spector is the software maker.
God Bless.

I would heartily agree.

There is an incentive for the WS to be devious.

She could have an agreement with the OM to have him send email to one account and she'd respond from another. There are all sorts of stories on these boards regarding the lengths to which wayward spouses will go in order to maintain contact.

Be strong. Install a keylogger. There are software and hardware models. The software ones will capture the keystrokes "in context" (i.e., what web site, time of day, etc). The most common hardware models will capture just the keystrokes and can be more difficult to decipher but are more difficult to detect for the unassuming spouse.

Also, without telling your WW, block his email address. Most email services like yahoo and hotmail have this feature. If your name is on the cell phone account, disable text message features, and get a new cell phone number. Make sure his number is deleted out of the phone, and clear out anywhere she would have access to his number. She is going to stay in withdrawal as long as there is continued contact. People in affairs are addicts. If your WW was an alcoholic and you wanted to help her with her addiction, you would clear out any alcohol in the house, and try to cut off her access to it should she become weak. You need to treat her addiction to the OM the same way. Expose to his parents, after all, even if they did have a heart attack it would be because of HIS actions, not anything you did. HE is the responsible party. Let the OMXW know the reason that he divorced her - he was having an affair with YOUR wife. You need to take charge and keep this a-hole from contacting your WW. There is a reason that your WW stayed with you even after the OM got a divorce - SHE IS NOT LEAVING YOU! DON'T BE AFRAID OF PISSING HER OFF, JUST BE AFRAID OF THE AFFAIR CONTINUING. DON'T ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN. If it continues, get a restraining order on this OM. Do whatever it takes to protect your family.

OK on the keylogger thing. Actually, I put Spector in on 3 computers 6 weeks ago. She has since wised up to them. I don't think it really matters now because the deception has already been demonstrated and without her remorse/repentence all I see is a game. I see her as buying time, postponing the confrontation. Maybe I'll crack, run off, and she'll have legal leverage. Maybe I'll be convinced the A is over and then she can have her cake (our home/kids) and eat it too (the secret lover). I don't think so.

To our Counselor's credit (I think), he did advise I NOT snoop at this point because of the added distress it will place on me. He REALLY sees her as needing a good amount of time to come around because of her guilt & distance from God. My knowledge of continued contact - for now - should be avoided.

A month ago my WW and I engaged in a short "interaction" in the kitchen and she said the lame idea that she had thought about moving out and getting her own place. While we both still work at our own small business! Out the window goes reason, huh? Somehow I think moving out MIGHT be construed as "abandonment" in a court of law. Well, that was a month ago. She's mellower now. Cordial even. But boy do I feel the underlying tension since the "issue" is not spoken about.

I can tell you I'm fearful that - if this ratchets up to my going with full exposure - my 3 kids will be devastated and life will be forever changed. There's still the "church discipline" issue because we're both members, the pastior knows she is unrepentant still, and the matter will need to be dealt with organizationally.

Personally, I think it's time for a controlled showdown at the OK corral. In the office with the pastor & counselor. Close the door. Get the garbage out. Deal with the next step - fish or cut bait.

I just don't know how my feelings and ideas fit with Plan A (if they do).

Above all, I do NOT want to "undermine" (as it were) God's workings in the crisis.

Thanks!

BetrayedHubby

I want you to know that what your counselor suggests is in direct opposition to what the Harleys suggest. Instead of snooping I would call it enforcing your marital boundaries. Cut off avenues for her to cheat, and enact consequences when she crosses those boundaries. Exposure will piss her off, but it is necessary to kill the fantasy of the affair. She won't come around until there is NC with OM, so I would do whatever it takes to ensure that happens.

"To our Counselor's credit (I think), he did advise I NOT snoop at this point because of the added distress it will place on me. He REALLY sees her as needing a good amount of time to come around because of her guilt & distance from God. My knowledge of continued contact - for now - should be avoided."

HUH????????? Snooping doesn't cause the added stress on you, the fact that your wife is still in contact with her lover does.

OK on the keylogger thing. Actually, I put Spector in on 3 computers 6 weeks ago. She has since wised up to them. I don't think it really matters now because the deception has already been demonstrated and without her remorse/repentence all I see is a game. I see her as buying time, postponing the confrontation. Maybe I'll crack, run off, and she'll have legal leverage. Maybe I'll be convinced the A is over and then she can have her cake (our home/kids) and eat it too (the secret lover). I don't think so.

To our Counselor's credit (I think), he did advise I NOT snoop at this point because of the added distress it will place on me. He REALLY sees her as needing a good amount of time to come around because of her guilt & distance from God. My knowledge of continued contact - for now - should be avoided.

A month ago my WW and I engaged in a short "interaction" in the kitchen and she said the lame idea that she had thought about moving out and getting her own place. While we both still work at our own small business! Out the window goes reason, huh? Somehow I think moving out MIGHT be construed as "abandonment" in a court of law. Well, that was a month ago. She's mellower now. Cordial even. But boy do I feel the underlying tension since the "issue" is not spoken about.

I can tell you I'm fearful that - if this ratchets up to my going with full exposure - my 3 kids will be devastated and life will be forever changed. There's still the "church discipline" issue because we're both members, the pastior knows she is unrepentant still, and the matter will need to be dealt with organizationally.

Personally, I think it's time for a controlled showdown at the OK corral. In the office with the pastor & counselor. Close the door. Get the garbage out. Deal with the next step - fish or cut bait.

I just don't know how my feelings and ideas fit with Plan A (if they do).Boy, is this getting tough. I think I need to ratchet up the heat and push for an office confrontation before I start turning up the heat on the OM family.

Above all, I do NOT want to "undermine" (as it were) God's workings in the crisis. Yes, I realize I REALLY can't, but feelings being what they are, I'm trying to balance God's sovereignty and my responsibility - where one ends and the other "begins".

Thanks!