Fellow MBers:

Again,I appreciate your deep insights. It is SORELY needed because if you think I had "blind spots" before the A, so much more in other ways DURING the A resolution process.

There IS a possibility of a sinister plan. To this I am not oblivious. Thanks for the reminder.

My WW has portrayed herself a la Academy Award-level for 3-4 years. Alot of practice. Deceit nearly perfected.

What we DON'T know is her heart right now. So long as there is a lingering DOUBT as to her determination to jettison me - and HER WHOLE EXTENDED FAMILY - I must give the benefit of the doubt until I can prove otherwise.

Am I getting thrown under the bus? Well, so will our 3 beautiful kids, her mom, 3 sisters, brother, and the entire family which is LIFE to her. They are ALL on my side of the equation.

It's safe to say we have a "semi-Plan A in operation right now. She's been frozen. She is emotionally stuck. Maybe she HAD plans to move on, and maybe in an occasional flash of irrationality still sees it. But then, BAM, God smacks her with Truth deep in her soul. She is trying to run, but can't.

Is this deeper than I know? Sure, I'll concede that the iceberg goes pretty far down below the surface. But I am trying my best to navigate the situation. Furthermore, it is virtually impossible for her to "squirrel away" cash from our business because it's 99% credit card. Plus I see the account regularly. No hidden golden parachute, trust me. If you ever were in a small business, you'd understand that the first 5-7 years there often IS no cash to squirrel away. Anyway, I have a bookeeper who knows our A situation very well.

This week will be my "war game" week. Monday, my WW goes to the MC. Tuesday, I go to the MC and find out where we "are" in this thing. I put the Plan A cards on the table at that time to maintain my commitment to my church leadership. Depending on the outcome (i.e., from Rogerian "how are you doing" reflective counseling to a "Time for Truth or Consequences" spill-the-beans-now session), Wednesday I begin intelligence gathering on the OM's turf.

By the way, the Truth Session I envision will be very painful for both of us. NO topic will be out-of-bounds from what I envision. This is nothing compared to the Final Judgment anyway. (So for any reader of this thread who hasn't come to grips with their own mortality and has the slightest possibility of an afterlife which is managed by a Holy, sinless God, maybe it's time to ponder Romans 3:23, Romans:6:23, Romans 5:10, Romans 8:1, Romans 10:9-10. Here's a link I found which says it nicely:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html

Anyway, once I have the key names/addresses in place, have interacted with his former employer and his ex-wife, I will speedily activate the full-scale Exposure Tsunami A by mail, personal visit to his parents, visit to his church (if there is one), and anyone else I see as a key influencer.

In the meantime, I pray, pray, pray, hope, hope, hope, and hold onto love by a scarlet thread. Right now I'm Joshua marching around Jericho 7 times. Boy did THAT too look stupid from inside the enemy's fortress. But then came the fateful crashing walls....

Keep the words coming gang, and pray for all of us in the throes of marriage attack.

Betrayed Hubby

QUESTION:

As I approach Exposure Day on the OM side, my kids 9,13, and 15 are still oblivious to mom's adultery and insincere "recovery". At some point OM communicates to WW. WW gets livid and will ,"blame" me for a new crisis. (Ha ha)

WHERE in all this do my 13/15 year old girls get informed? How should this be done? AFTER the word gets to her? Should they be made aware by ME without WW, by WW AND me? Really unsure of this. Life will change radically for them.

Help needed here please. Thanks!

BH

betrayed - I am also a born-again believer, but in a situation not nearly as terrible as yours. I understand your commitment to your word and that is honorable. You need to immediately go to your pastor and the counselor with YOUR plan and get their agreement. This plan, where she is allowed to continue the A is no favor to anyone. Your plan is to be strong and steadfast. You must end this A to have any shot.

Your W's religious justifications are no surprise. Remember when Amy Grant fell in love with Vince Gill while still married to someone else? Remember, because she didn't have sex it wasn't wrong? She also said God did not want her to be unhappy, like her happiness was God's primary concern in the world. Your W is following this same script.

I agree that she is planning to leave you. Stand firm, do not leave your home under any circumstances. Do not go to a hotel, do not move to an apartment. Make sure you are checking your finances. Your W is in the serious grips of Satan and may do things you would never suspect.

Once again, I said before, love is patient, but you do not patiently sit by and let someone hurt themselves. There is no love in that, just patience.

you know your own kids

what do you think would be best?

brainstorm here

Pep

Today's Conundrum Outcome:

WW went to Counselor today. All I know from WW is that C is REALLY upset that WW's mom has been on her case and spouting scriptures and her opinions. No details. So, her mom and family putting pressure on WW - and they get accused of being, in essence, judgmental? I'm baffled.

I find out more 1/16 and get a chance to lay out plan A. The C's approach is about to hit a wall with me. I KNOW NC has not been respected. In fact, I brought up NC way back in October and I got the "No ultimatum" line, "WW is in pretty messed up shape and needs time to work through this". Point is, there IS C, even if the forwarding of a an e-mail joke.

Ergo, my WW is still a cheater, in an active EA state (I view it as a parentheses until the Spring flowers blossom, or when I have a melt-down (so WW has ammo against me). Uh Uh. Ain't gonna happen.

I maintain that my WW (whom I really DO love) is insincere, following her own agenda, and very much into deception. Very messed up.

It's really hard becoming a Humble Hammer. I do not take this responsibiity lightly and will do all in my power to hold fast when the Tsunami hits.

After my meeting with the C on 1/16 I will ratchet up the pressure with the big E on the OM side. I am praying that there will be a major Truth Session for my WW and me Truth Marathon is more like it) planned for next week. If so, I will postpone my WW's Great Tribulation until the session outcome.

Boy, is my gut knotted up these days.

BH

BH,

Have you taken certain steps to prevent contact. My WW didn't know this, but I blocked OM's email address from my WW's account. I also blocked his phone number from my land line. Put a software program on the computer that blocks access to his myspace page, or other things. Look into some software programs. You would be amazed at what they can block. Sometimes you just need to impose your will on your WW. Yes, she may throw a fit, but if they know that they can't get away with contacting OM anymore, they might just give up. You can talk to her employer about personal use of company property if she tries to contact OM that way as well. Shut down all avenues of contact that you possibly can. You still have power in this relationship. Start using it.

Oh, and cut off her cell phone if she continues to text and receive voicemail without open access to it. It is not a selfish demand if you just turn it off. It is no demand at all. If she wants it turned back on, then you get full access to it. It is a battle of wills so don't let her manipulate you.

Jim:

I can do the blocking thing, but honestly, where there is a will there's a way. As for the cell phone, sure, I can cancel texting and vm, but anyone can go get a new cell phone and be back in business within 30 minutes. I wouldn't put it past her. She's really messed up emotionally.

We own and work in the same business, so no "employer" to put on notice.

I'm just planning to take the bull by the horns. No more head games. I hate it. She's my wife and covenant partner for Pete's sake. I shouldn't have to do a Mission Impossible more than 3 months, in my opinion. If she's cheating and hanging on to the EA in anticipation of her irrational dream, it's hurting me, my kids, and her extended family.

I'm growing weary of superficialities, secrets, clandestine plans, hiding behind a Counselor, phoney pleasantries, etc. It's likely time to charge in, get surgical, and go after the tumor. The difficult thing is that I must do so with deep humility - knowing that I to could fall into the same snare but for the grace of God.

Humility and strength. What a combination.

After my appt with the C today, I will discuss my plan of action.

Pray for me folks. There's a major battle abrewing here...

BH

Whose will is stronger?


If she does that, find that cell phone and cancel it. Your wife is messed up and she can't control her actions right now. She is an ADDICT! HELP HER! You are her husband and are responsible for taking care of her.


Well, I guess then it is easier to block certain phone numbers and webpages.


No more pity parties. You shouldn't have to, but you are going to have to if you want to protect your family. Sure, it ain't fair, but it is what needs to be done. Sure it sucks like ******, but you get the idea in your last paragraph. It is time to kill this EA once and for all. No more screwing around. You take charge!

So betrayedhubby - How did the counseling session go?

*****COUNSELING REPORT*****

Met w/C for 2 1/2 hours yesterday. He met with WW the day prior. We discussed my feelings about the big E that I would do in view of my WW not agreeing to NC of any type. I mentioned my difficulty, in view of my emotional "tsunami" and her affair-filtered behavior & thinking, that I was frustrated and getting angrier. In fact, it is as though I have been counseled to do "sort-of" plan A all along in the absence of her agreement to go NC. He said that my WW is really messed up emotionally and spiritually. She also has a history of co-dependence (I know this from past issues). By the way, I have SAA on order and should receive it in a day or two.

(Before I proceed further, I have read another posting from LoveDecline which resonates very closely with where I am. I am seeing that Plan A can go 6 mos. and it is not unusual for a WW to be an emotional pretzel, unable to sort out feeling, responses, show irrational thinking, etc.)

Now, the counselor said something which showed me a crack of light. My WW said that she knows she needs to "apologize" but just doesn't know how to approach it and she is scared for the "future" with me. This refers to her recollections of the "old" form of me - not meeting her needs, not recognizing her needs, etc. The counselor is working with her now on this "needs" thing and how it plays into the marriage commitment.

Then I asked some questions and the result was this: my WW is very messed up, after 4 years of A/deceit. She's tasted of the freedoms from stress, kids, me, work, etc. The suddenness of D-Day (it usually is I suppose) cut the emotional umbillical cord, but she can't just "like THAT" re-attach it to ME because I am an "unknown quantity". She has seen me through the eyes of her own twisted world. The OM has deep roots into her being.

I need to keep in close communication with our church leadership and place trust in what they are doing. Contact with the OM has been made by our pastoral staff. Further contact, directly with the OM's pastor/church will be the next step. I have been advised to refrain, for the time being, from dropping the E-bomb because of where my wife is emotionally and spiritually.

I explained that without NC, I am paranoid, prone to misinterpret her actions, deeply mistrust her local travels (errands, etc.), and am having the worst time trying to stay focused on hubby-improvement. He understands this, but said I needed to hold fast and keep working on ME. I think that after the initial shock/rage/despair/fear of discovering an A, I settled into a calmer state, but now I feel the "aftershocks" of the event.

In fact, I'm beginning to thing that I'm now in a Betrayal Fog, driven by fear and anger. Could it be that see a faint outline in the mist occasionally and make it out to be something it's not? It's not impossible, but on the other hand....

Now, some may think me a fool, others a coward, still others naive. But there are too many factors playing into this A crisis which give me pause before ratcheting up the situation. Truly, the Devil is in the details here. But so is God. As most on this MB website, this is a struggle of epic proportions. I am hanging on tenaciously to love someone who has betrayed me. She is trapped in her own emotional nightmare.

As a man, I want to get my club and kill the A beast my own way, thinking that A+E-OM = Restored M. No, I'm discovering that there are unknown variables in the equation. I need to work on removing the unknown variables with ME while at the same time endure and rise above the pain/anger/stress etc.

Finally, I asked about a Truth Session. We have a couple counseling session now planned for Friday 1/19 3:30 pm.

At that session, I plan to lay it all out in terms of my heart and wishes for our marriage. I will not do ultimatums, but I will bring up my awareness of the few contacts in the aftermath of D-Day and how this is preventing healing.

I am going to do a new thread asking former WWs to help me (and others) to understand the emotional condition (Fog, Confusion, Despair, whatever)of the WW in the aftermath of a D-day.

If you are reading this thread and were a WW or can help provide insight, ALL help is appreciated! Thank you!

Betrayed Hubby

Without a NC letter, you need to expose to kill the A. Otherwise you risk a relapse. You must have NC in place.

When we meet with the MC on Friday, I will put the NC boundary on the table, clearly, firmly, and without compromise. I will also give notice that cell texting and VM will be stopped immediately as a protection for our recovery process.

As long as we have MC in apparently good progress, I feel it wise to state my actions with that third party present so as to eliminate unnecessary confrontation with my WW.

Thanks.

*************Friday MC Report***********

Well, this is turning out to be an interesting journey. When I took my WW out to lunch on Weds. she brought up the subject of my previous girlfriend, albeit over 20 years ago. I let my WW know, several weeks ago, that I was understanding a little bit about her emotional attachment to the OM because of the 4-year intinmate relationship I had way-back-when before WW and I met. While there was a year between break-up and meeting my now WW, I carried the emotional baggage into our marriage a year later. This caused a disconnect early on (ah yes, I can remember the emotional sruggle), setting the stage for relationship erosion and disconnect from my WW. The emotional distance/vaccuum finally tripped her trigger into the EA, then into the PA beginning four years ago.

Interesting twist. My light bulb went on during that lunch.

Now, at our meeting today I brought this issue up. Indeed, the MC said we now had a viable framework to understand what caused our marriage fractures. In fact, he said, in a way it's now a level playing field. I "deceived" at the beginning by bringing in emotional baggage without mentioning it (I was trying to close the book on the old, start fresh, and not dredge up the past which would jeopardize our new budding relationship). "We're even - like bookends" Well, it came full circle with the A entering in. Now there was blame on both. My main concern with me is that the A rises FAR beyond my unwise concealment of a pre-marriage intimate relationship, don't you think?

In any event, I brought up my NC concerns. The MC is taking a I Cor 13 approach where I should trust in his evalution of my WW - she is messed up, he doesn't believe there is any contact, and she is making sincere efforts. I need to keeping demonstarting trust. Hmmmm... He also said that to demand PROOF of the NC runs againt trust. I'm a bit uncomfortable with this. Doesn't he get it? She's not WORTHY of trust in my opinion...

Well, I put my pastor on notice today - and I will put the MC on notice next week, that if I find so much as one (count'em ONE) contact from the OM, his nightmare will begin. In the meantime, as a pre-emptive strike, I am going to sleuth out his church and it's pastor, then get the first disclosure accomplished through MY pastor. Sort of a warning shot. Yes I will trust....but verify. Seems I heard that axiom during the Cold War.

It's tough balancing trust/faith with the plan A exposure concept. There may be no active PA, but how might the big exposure impact the still existent EA of my WW if it's indeed in recession? It's like walking on eggshells. Will it help or hinder, repair us or repel her? Any thoughts?

By the way, I brought the subject about her asking me not to sleep with her. Even being next to her now makes her uncomfortable. I've been told by some of you to basically demand my marriage bed and climb in. Do you all really think this will help? It seems that if I do this she will easily relocate herself and stack a few more bricks between us. Love does not demand it's own way. See how tough this is?

Betrayed Hubby.

You need to give your MC a copy of SAA to read for himself. He obviously doesn't get MB concepts.

As far as the marital bed, it isn't a demand if you just climb in your own bed. She is perfectly free to sleep somewhere else.

Dear BetrayedHubby,

I hope you won't mind a comment from a Catholic who loves the Bible as much as you do....

I notice that no one in your thread, you, WW, her devotional literature, C, or Pastors ever mention any part of the NT besides St. Paul.

What about Matthew? 3:10, 5:32, 7:19, 19:19-20? Has anyone suggested to WW that "If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off...." might apply to the attachment to OM? That when Jesus said, "Behold, not one jot or tittle of the Law shall pass away," He might have meant it?

Why always acting from 1Cor13? How about imitating Jesus chasing the moneychangers from the Temple? "What God has put together, let no man separate"?

This is not to second-guess your strategy or very honorable commitment to working with your church leaders. I'm just wondering why EVERYONE only mentions this one aspect of the Gospel and ignores the Scriptural passages that IMHO justify what the MB experts say is best right now for your M? Maybe discussing these other aspects of the Gospel message with your church leaders might get them to agree to the exposure MB experts call for?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> A Catholic telling a born-again Baptist to go read the Bible? A-land is a topsy-turvy world, isn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good post, Athanasius. Us Catholics need to stick together.

I live in Catholicism central. I actually live within 6 blocks of two Catholic churches (one is 2 blocks away and the other is 5.5 blocks away). Needless to say, I have no excuse to miss mass on Sunday.

To My RC Friends:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Frankly, sitting with my WW and the MC makes me feel like it's almost a "Poor WW. BS needs to meet your needs and has missed it by a country mile. I understand why you can't ask for forgiveness". It seems to help her justify her actions. Very troubling indeed.

I'm tired of being the focus of this MC's efforts (at least I feel this way.) Let's call a spade a spade. An A an A. I am willing to bestow grace - but she can't. There is a problem here I think. My communication and needs-response problems were unintentional, her A was volitional. Big difference here.

Anyway, I left a phone message for my pastor today. I am requesting a meeting with the Assoc and Senior pastors this week to discuss my MC issues. Funny, senior pastor originally suggested I give my WW a choice of the OM or our M and have her bag packed for her. After staff discussion, they decided to give my WW a chance to sort out her emotions and M issues. As it stands, we're now 3.5 mos along and still not a verbalization from my WW of "I care", "I want this to work", "I love you -but still not in love with you". Etc. It's still surreal. Worse, I am repressing all kinds of emotions under the I Cor 13 "Love is patient...kind...etc. Sure, the BS has to move ahead and rise above, enjoy life, etc. Fact is, I believe that we BSs are deflated, semi-dazed, detached from normality, and are just "shells" of what we really are. Joy is stolen, laughter has vanished, doubts replace dreams.

Before I grab the horns myself, I am going to make a push for the church to require the MC to engage some diagnostic tools such as ENs and a values assessment for each of us. What's funny is that MC has assessed me as the "analytical type" and this formed the basis of my failure to connect emotionally with my WW. While this does have merit, it sure seems to me that analysis is what we really DO need at this point. I'm beginning to really hate psychology. And I have a counseling degree myself!

A number of threads point out that in Plan A remorse sometimes takes time. Plan A can take 6 mos and emotions require time to get restored. This is what I am holding onto. BUT without my assurance of NC (I can't realistically be expected to have blind faith after 4 years of duplicity, can I? HE expects it! ("It's not FAITH if I need proof" he said). My WW has not acknowledged wanting to save our M (MC leaves this open-ended for her!), I'm thinking our MC's approach is a bunch of bible-flavored psycho-babble hooey. Arrrgggg - I'm getting critical. Baaaad me. Oh, now I'm getting cynical and proud. Sheeesh. I can't win.

I realize that I am in a very hurting condition right now, so I want to be careful not to overreact. I'm walking a tightrope. I have every fiber in me wanting to forge ahead with methods I believe are the right ones, but my heart is also apprehensive that maybe...just MAYBE...my WW really is emotionally/spiritually messed up so bad that any aggressive actions (like an Exposure Campaign) may be counterproductive.

Ergo, the next step is to introduce my pastors to the Harley concepts and tell them "This is MY wife, this is MY family, and I am the betrayed. I am dissatisfied with the approached of the selected MC because....." Then I'll listen carefully to the responses.

Indeed, there is no magic formula or standard procedure in these things, is there?! I am convinced, however, that FIRST my WW has to acknowledge wanting to save our marriage. Without this, I might as well start packing her bags like pastor said 3.5 mos.ago. "How can two walk together unless they are agreed?" Whoops - another Bible verse (Amos 3:3 - not NT!)

Thanks, everyone.

BetrayedHubby

Affairs are like addictions. Ask your pastor if he would recommend you have faith in an addict who was trying to extract themselves from the use of their drug of choice, or whether he would recommend they be cautiosly observed during the Withdrawal period.

See how he responds and let us know...

BH

So sorry for your sitch.......I find your church's handling of this unbelievable but not surprising unfortunatley.....our church had no clue helping us recover from A....MB saved our marriage and has strenghthened us.

BTW, our kids know all about the A and i suspect your kids know something is up....esp with your sleeping arangements unless thsi is normal given your business....

looks like your senior pastor hit things on the head from the start....should ahve followed his advice, forget a committee they love to talk!!, would have saved a lot of fluffing around....

Should show your MC that last post by SD.....an A IS an addiction, so immediate NC is the only answer to recovery.....would they condone giving a drug addict more herion to recover??? I think not....

much prayer to you and yours....

I will be in touch with you re WW stuff

Mrs K

Mrs K

you RAWK

Pep