Does anyone know if the MB Weekend is for marriages in crisis? We are in affair recovery, first DDay 11/7/06, second DDay 11/24/06, but last time he saw her was 12/12/06 supposedly only to get back a cell phone he had bought her--he insists that the affair is over. My husband has said he will attend a retreat, but refuses counseling. I am also looking at Joe Beam's "A New Beginning" Retreat, does anyone know how that compares to the MB Weekend? Has anyone gone to the MB Weekend with Dr. Harley? THANKS!!!

The MB weekend is excellent for marriages in crisis. Also there is follow-up advice included.

Can you give some more details - ages, children, length of marriage, info about other woman, where they met, were there problems in marriage?

THANK YOU for answering, I feel like I'm in a fog and desperately trying to find my way out, trying to hear God's voice but can't tell where it's coming from.

My husband is 35, I am 30, we have two children--daughter 10 and son 6. We've been married 11 years. The OW is a 19 year old student at his workplace. He is a technology director at a major university (the same one we both graduated from--I say this because he's acting like he's still a college student!) and one of his responsibilities is to oversee a computer lab and she is one of the students that worked there. We had no major problems before the affair and he agrees with that statement as well. We simply grew apart.

He would work long hours and come home late trying to miss traffic in the long commute. Actually just two months before the affair we were doing more things as a couple--we had just run a half marathon together and the whole family was taking taekwondo three times a week. Then he hurt his knee and then the students came back to school in September and everything stopped. We also made a major move (about 30 miles) to be closer to his work. Subsequently, we left all friends and accountability. We moved in Sept. 17, the sexual part of the affair started Sept. 20. ... did I mention she lives on the very next street?!. ..he swears he didn't know until we were already in escrow...although last I heard she was being kicked out of the home for this behavior.

He told me about the affair on Nov. 7. Partly because I was getting suspicious and partly because the OW's sister, who also worked for him, found out, filed a sexual harassment suit and the university was going to have to take action. He said he would end the affair and even went together to a counselor that Saturday...lies...he talked to her that night--he had bought two extra cell phones and had added them to our family plan so they could talk to each other. I found one of the phones the day after Thanksgiving. According to the text messages, they were 'in love' and had plans to leave me in one year--he believes she loved him. Again, he said he would end it.

He says he's here because it's the 'right thing to do' and he really has no other choice. I have told him he has a choice and that it's entirely his choice, but he says he's choosing to stay for now...but he hasn't said shown that he is remorseful. He simply acts like nothing happened...although we are arguing more now than we ever did combined in the last 11 years. He takes everything I said as an inquiry into what he's been doing and if he's been faithful. He says he has no reason to lie anymore, but I am now questioning this--just found out a couple days ago that he saw her to get the phone back on 12/12, although he says it was brief. { edited: i found out later it was not to get the phone back, in fact he had already had it...it was in fact to have SF --she was about to leave the country so it was goodbye SF <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> } I have not had any evidence that he is still seeing her, but I don't know. The last two weeks when he was on vacation seemed pleasant enough, but he went back to work yesterday and came home moody.

My big issue now is that he says he doesn't like children and he doesn't care to be a father. He says he doesn't mind being with me, but doesn't want to do anything with the children. He wasn't really involved before, but now he is being more vocal about it. Prior to the affair, he would go when I scheduled something, but now he complains about the children and is being extremely critical particularly to our son. I know part of the reason is that his father was an alcoholic and he doesn't know how to be a father, but he says it hasn't affected him. He won't go to counseling, saying they won't tell him something he doesn't already know--saying they'll just tell him he did something bad and he already knows it.

He is also saying he no longer needs God in his life and God is not relevant to him anymore. It's one of the reason he says he was with the OW, because they're both going to ****** together. He'll still go to church on Sundays, but that's the extent of it. I realize the spiritual battle portion of this and that he is questioning his faith and his salvation, but if he doen't have God in his life, what is to keep him accountable?

He has said he will attend a retreat if I don't bother him about counseling anymore, hence why I am looking into the MB retreat (the jan. 26th one--does it fill up fast?) and the other one as well. I really like the idea of the accountability afterwards--the other one you have to enroll in the next course...my only concern is that we may be too critical for it to help us....or will they address the issues of reconciliation and recovery? We need all the help we can get.

Thanks so much!!!

Hi DesireWisdom -

You might also want to check out Retrouvaille. It's an offshoot of the Marriage Encounter weekends, but it's geared towards marriages that are in sever crisis, like yours. Both are sponsored by the Catholic church, but open to all denominations.

Their website is Retrouvaille .

DW:

Don't know about the others seminars, but the MarriageBuilders Weekend worked for us!

This website worked for us...

Do the others have a site like this, with the terriffic minds around here to help?

Like Pepperband, Melody Lane, Marshmallow, Mimi, the wonderings, and even the new star, LilSis! Who's sitch may be close to yours.

So, learn some more.

And you can toast that little homewrecker right out of your life with the people here.

Believe me, my M was more in crisis than yours... And this site saved it!

Thanks so much--this forum is definitely a plus. He finally agreed to go for sure to the weekend....I going to register tomorrow, but does it work if he's still deciding? Here is my problem now...I think he may have seen her yesterday, not sure, but his attitude was different and he wouldn't look me in the eye. Don't have proof though, but he's been getting annoyed if I check his cell phone or question him about anything. I guess I'll have to assume he's not seeing her unless I have proof?

Also, I'm having a huge issue with him being mean to our son. He is taking his anger and frustration out on him a lot. I can forgive the affair if it is ended and I can be loving toward him, but him not wanting to be a father and take care of his children is a big hinderance for me. At one point, he said he thinks I got pregnant with him on purpose and he never wanted him. Is it more damaging for our son to be in a broken family or with a dad who doesn't want to show love toward him???

No you should assume he is seeing her until he proves to you otherwise. The burden of proof is on him.

DesireWisdom -

If he's being verbally abusive (or physically abusive) towards your son, or anyone of the kids or yourself, that's a horse of a whole different color.

My wife and I are friends with a couple who actually underwent a separation because the husband was being verbally abusive to her. They have a good marriage now, but it took her telling her husband to leave to start getting there.

The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that no, it's not OK for your husband to be abusive towards your kids. That doesn't mean you necessarily have to divorce him, but you do need to lay the law down, so to speak.

My H said the New Beginning weekend explained his A to him, he has said that many times, i think it really helped him to realize what he did to his family.
I thought it was good, very painful for me to understand the A from WHs point of view. We are still together a year later and working on healing so it did keep us going.
Anyways, i recommend it. My H tells others about it.

I don't think what he's doing counts as abuse...yet. For example, a coule days ago my parents were visiting and my kids ate dinner with them early, around 5 pm. My H came home later about 7 pm and I ate with him. While we were eating, our son came to the table and said, 'i'm hungry, too' and sat down to eat. My H snapped at him and said, 'didn't you already eat? go away.' He seems to get annoyed at everything our son does.

Last night, we spoke about this issue because he had come home late, around 7:30, ate dinner and left to go to the gym at 9 and didn't come home 'til 11. He's been going to the gym almost every day about 2-3 hours at a time....(yes, I have checked up on him because the gym is only a couple minutes away and he has been there every time i checked) but my concern was that he hardly spends any time with the family. His response is that he doesn't care to.

He says he knows he's not a good father, he knows he puts himself first, and he doesn't care to change it. He says his father wasn't a good father and he turned out fine, so our kids don't need him to be one. He doesn't mind being with me and says we have a good time when we're not with the kids, but he doesn't care to be with them. He says I'm a good mom, so I can take care of them and they'll be fine. He says he's not going to change his feelings and he doesn't want to fake his feelings for the sake of the kids, so I should just accept it. He says he'll take care of us financially, but he doesn't have to be a 'typical' father and play with the kids regularly. He'll go if I plan a major outing, but doesn't feel like he needs to interact regularly with the kids.

I brought up the fact that he is taking me for granted by expecting me to watch the kids while he goes out and works out almost every night, and he says I can go with him or do my own thing--I should just hire a babysitter. He says it should get better when the kids are in school full-time and when they're in high school, because they'll be more independent. This is true, but I still can't get over the fact that he doesn't want to be a father figure to his own kids....it is really hard for me to develop desire for a man that doesn't want to be a father to his children. ...and the fact that he doesn't care to be a better person, he doesn't care to learn how to be a father...he says there's nothing wrong with him and he doesn't need to change. he says there are men out there like him that don't care to be a father and the kids will be fine.

At one point, I said it sounds like you want a wife that just follows you around and lets you do whatever you want, and he said, yeah, that would be nice. I had said, well, that's not me and so why are you here? His response was to ask me why I'm still with him? Why am I still with him? hmmm...just financially now? .....he doesn't desire to be there for his kids...

okay, sorry, one more example: A couple weeks ago we went to a taekwondo banquet and they had a black belt ceremony where the student receiving their black belt is on one side and their parents are on the other. well, this one student had his mom and two dads there--his real dad and his step-dad. My H's response was, "Why is his real dad there? He should just leave them alone and let them be a family. Let the new guy take over."

...is he trying to reject them before they reject him? ...is it more harmful to the children to have a distant father or no father? ...this is a cycle...i need to stop my children from thinking this is okay and doing it to their own kids...how do i stop this? can my children grow up to be healthy with a father that has no real desire for them?

okay need advice:

We are registered to go to the MB Weekend this January 26 and 27...wondering if I should cancel...

So, here's the phone incident:

We were in the kitchen Sunday and his phone vibrated once (meaning voicemail or text message). He ignored it, but I mentioned it and he opened his phone to look at it. He let me look over his shoulder for about 4 seconds and then started to yell at me for 'always checking up on him'. I saw the beginning of the phone number (...the same area code as her cell phone about 500 miles from where we live, it is from before she moved here) He went upstairs to get his jacket (this is my mistake, this is when he deleted the call) and continued to be upset and not let me see his phone. He said it was only a reminder call for his meeting....a reminder call on Sunday for his meeting on Thursday??? He said there was no other call, it must have been a wrong number or malfunction. Yesterday, after insisting that I saw the beginnings of the phone number, he says he deleted it so as to not 'freak me out'. He says it was probably her aunt or cousin...her aunt has called before to yell at him about the affair (do i need to remind y'all she's only 19) I had actually seen the number once around new year's, and I looked for it again, but it has been erased from the call log. Is this reason enough to know he hasn't stopped seeing her? He still has not been acting repentant, he does not desire to be with the kids, and says he doesn't feel guilty about not spending time with them or with me when i'm with them... He is upset at me for checking up him...

As I write this, I'm wondering if it's obvious to everyone else that he has not stopped.... it's just i don't have any concrete proof this time....last time (dday2) i found the secret cell phone...

Do I cancel the retreat? Doesn't it not work if he's still seeing her?

Do I threaten legal separation if he does not....what....he still says he's not seeing her...he says i'm overreacting... what should my ultimatum demands be? do i demand counseling? do i demand that he acts like a father even though he doesn't want to? do i demand he be completely open... which he has, kinda, he's given me passwords, but he could easily start another email account.... and then he does something like this...he probably gave me stuff he knew he wouldn't use to contact her...

thanks in advance for any advice of the wise that have been through this before <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, you are way too early in this to even think about separation. Please go to the MB weekend. Your husband will get exposure to the program, and you will have the benefit of the aftercare.

As for his relationship with his kids, that is sad. But it has been going on 11 years. No hurry to make changes now.

DesireWisdome -

YES, what your husband said to your son IS abuse. If he simply wanted time with you, there are other ways he could have asked your son to leave.

I'm no expert, but to me it sounds like he's in an A. The secrecy, the I want don't a family, let's do our own thing, yada, yada, yada.

My wife gave me passwords and access to almost all of her accounts. She let me know when contact occurred. I suspectd (this was June last year) that she was only telling me the things that she knew I would or could find out.

And I was right. I found contact at the end of November through an e-mail account that she had not given me the password to.

If he's truly committed to the marriage, he has nothing to hide.

Personally, this guy sounds like a schmuck. He's doing exactly what his father did to him, and he's too self-absorbed to realize the very real effect his father had on shaping who he thinks he's happy being today.

I don't know if the MB weekend will help you or not. I think your husband needs to grow up and be a man first.

I think I would assume that the affair (on at least some level) is still ongoing, but I'm not sure there's any point in catching him in the act--it will just make him defensive and angry. Don't threaten, don't get upset, don't make ultimatums. It will only make things worse. Try to remain calm and sane and stable and lovable. And definitely go to the weekend. It sounds very positive that he's willing to go.

If he's still in the affair, he's not himself. He's a wayward spouse (WS), so he will say and do bizarre things. The verbal abuse sounds really bad, but you may want to give him the benefit of the doubt and see how he reacts to the weekend. Has he always been this way toward your son?

Hey, LG... how about updating your signature, with a link to a summary of your story? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

techie -


And where is your signature and link to your story? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

my story is a mess, and is less intresting than someone who has actually "succeeded" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> besides which, I tend to disable my signature line, when I'm only posting one-liners. I am "on the fence", as to whether to add it on this one, but.. i suppose i should <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

techie -


Every story has value - both the "success" stories, and the less than successful stories. A lot of people lurk and simply read, never posting. Sometimes, even the "messiest" of stories can give help to someone.

Techie:

THe story is here and there around here. No direct link.

Lets just say two days before Dday, my BS found this site and she told me about it.

Two days later there was a loud POP as my head was pulled out of my [censored].

The MB Weekend, this site and the HArley books gave us the tools to talk, discuss and modify our behaviors until we no longer were hurting each other, but "loving" each other.

I hang around and try to help. Perspective of the WH. Not much, but I try my best.

yeah, about WS's acting bizarre. About a month ago, he had asked me to seriously consider moving her in as a second 'wife'...seriously! He said he wanted to see if she was serious about doing anything for him. He said I could be the 'boss' and tell her to do anything I wanted. He had seen that show on the discovery channel with multiple wives, kinda like HBO's "Big Love". He seriously wanted me to consider it! Cuckoo!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />