Thank you for your support!! God knows when you are hurting you can never have enough support.

My children are a HUGE reason for my decision to give my H the oppurtunity to make up for what hes done.

Mel

MellySue,

U gotta calm down. You want to make up for lost time by moving forward fast than the speed of LIFE!

Take 3 deep cleansing breathes. Let him finish his reading. He has to slowly recup to begin recovery. Do NOT screw this up by being impatient.

Pray for that clear mind and calm heart along with LOTS of patience.

He has begun his journey and you have to see if he is willing t/d what it takes to earn back his right t/b in your family.

Our recovery started over 3 years ago. The last sighting of the OW was the beginning our recovery. I finally saw the OW in the flesh in COURT! Must say she looked good in the black pant suit. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I knew it was recovery because later when she walked right past me in the hallway, I didn't even notice her. Howz that for recovery?!?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

You go read His needs/Her needs also, then go and get some rest. A good glass of wine and snuggle down for the night. Let him spend his time contemplating.

If you gotta vent, do it here.

When u both can, call Steve. He will help you both put this behind you.

Eventually when your H gets strong enough he will need to help YOU heal. Right now you have to let him heal.

L.

Patience is not my strong suit. I like to get things done. I'm just so afraid that he will do what hes always done. He does a lot of talk with no action. It all still so fresh, I know but all the things they've done and all that I've through since this started is too much. I don't know if I even want this anymore. It seems like it would be such a relief to just walk away. I was having such a hard time with A after dday 1 and now things have gone way beyond what they were.

Thanks for listening! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Melly,

Haven't heard anything for a couple of days.

What's up?

What's going on?

Mark

Well its been a little over a week since the last round of lies from my H. Since then I found out they kissed and "slept" in the same bed together. He claims that she begged for him to leave us and be with her, he says he never wanted more than a friend. He had his second therapy session today and I haven't heard much since he went straight to work afterward. He is back at the house and my DD is not crazy about it. She says that he hasn't learned yet. That they are getting yelled at less. She wants to be a part of his therapy so that she isn't just being told one thing only to be let down again. It is what she needs to trust him again. And I don't blame her. Shes ashamed of what he did. She is so mad at him for hurting them and me. She wants him here...eventually. But I think its best for him to be here to SHOW us he is working. I don't know. I feel her because I don't trust him either and I am very worried that this is a repeat performance of the last time. He wrote his NC letter but is dragging his feet mailing it. He says hes getting a new job but again not so much.

I need to be patient. But it still hurts sooo much and I was a fool who believed we were finally on the road to recovery and instead I found out we've never been further away. I just keep seeing them kissing and sleeping together.

How do I stop seeing them in my head?

How do I love him the way I used to?

How do I know working it out is the right thing to do?

This last year and a half have been a lie. He says his feelings for me and the moments between us were real. How do I believe that?

Everytime we've made love he's been deceiving me-how do I open myself up to that again?

I have so many q's and so few answers. I am terrified of being hurt again.

If he wanted us what was he doing with her? If he wanted to be here why was he there?

He says he was afraid she was going to tell on him if he stopped. He says he didn't want to be there-so why was he there? Nobody does something they don't want to do.

Please help my confused scared self!!!

Mel

Alright, so I have a new question for everyone about my sitch.

Was a week in a hotle room enough for him to see what he is losing? I keep feeling like maybe it was too soon. I feel like a fool and don't trust my judgement anymore at all after trusting him for the last 6 mos. After finding out that I was dumb enough to believe that contact had stopped when it never did. What if that was not a wake up call but like hitting the snooze button? Like last time.

They both discussed that I would be hurt by their relationship and that our M would likely be over. They talked about how it was wrong but apparently that was just a statement to relieve their guilt like knowing it was wrong was enough to keep it innocent. Like somehow acknowledging that would make it less hurtful to me and easier for them.

What is that?

My H still claims his intentions were only friendly but once he set out to lie things were clearly NOT friendly. Anything enclosed by secrets, lies, and pain is NOT innocent. He moved forward with the intent to lie. He laid in her bed, kissed her lips, and told her they had a future down the line.

How is that friendly? That is a romantic relationship.

He didn't care that he wasn't at home then why now? The only change between now and then is he got caught. Now I know and he can no longer pretend to be the victim of my crazy rantings. He would have left in December without hestitation as he did as long as his secret was still a secret. Now he can't pretend to have restarted their relationship post us. He can no longer pretend he tried to save our M. He no longer has any right to claim he did it right. I can't seem to put this into words to my satisfaction. Now he has to accept responsibility. He has to acknowledge his wrongs in spite of my efforts to fix our M. He has to acknowedge I've been going it alone. Walking away now means he has to accept that he caused an irrepairable tear in our love. His steadfastness now comes in the wake of being caught. He did not chose us he got caught.

I don't know-articulating what I'm feeling feels impossible right now. I want to just crawl under a rock but I don't have time.

Mel

lie-detector test.

You're starting to buy into his justifications and half-truths. Just tell him that one of your requirements is that he take a lie-detector test to prove he didn't sleep with her.

One of three things will happen -- he'll take it and pass. He'll refuse. He'll tell you the truth to avoid it.

I'd bet you any money he slept with her. Is that a deal breaker for you? Because if it is, that is why he's not telling you.

How do I go about getting a lie detector test? I didn't even know you could do that. Its not a bad idea though. It could be very helpful in building trust and if he wants to prove himself it won't even be a question of if just when.

But you've got my attention.

Mel

Melly,

If he's home and has broken contact with her, Plan A is doing its job.

One of the hardest things for a BS is the loss of trust. We don't trust our WS, and worse than that, we don't trust our own judgement. We beat ourselves up over why we didn't catch it sooner and how we could let it happen.

But you know what? It wasn't us that had a failure. His explanations right now are still from the foggy POV of a WS. The h377 of being a BS is that first we have to work to stop the A. Then we have to work to get the BS though withdrawal. Then we have to work at trying to establish meaningful communication....Eventually, he is going to have to begin doing some of the work.

Primarily, he is the one that will have to rebuild the trust. It will be up to him to show himself trustworthy by being transparent and honest in all that he does. It is his job to rebuild the trust, not yours. That is when you will begin to trust again, not before.

I'm afraid that this is not going to happen in a short period of time. Real recovery takes a long time. You will still feel betrayed a year from now, assuming things go well from here on out. You will hurt a little less each day that he shows he is honest. Soon, the hurt will be manageable. Then it will be bearable. One day it will be a distant memory, like the broken arm you had when you were six....You will remember it, but it won't "hurt" as much any more.

It all takes a lot of time. If he has said he has committed to the M, just take him at his word, but snoop for a while to assure NC. Operate as if he really means it and see what happens. Remain vigilant and keep on the lookout for signs of renewed contact, but eventually, it will be his responsibility to prove that he is working on your M.

Remember that when he was actively involved w/ OW, he was a WS, abducted by aliens and had no sense of right or wrong. He has now started to come to his senses and is beginning to see what he has done. Be grateful! Sometimes it takes a lot longer to reach this point.

As for the lies...Yep, he lied. It is what a WS does. The secrets, the lies, the deception, all of it is part of the A. Denial is part of it too. He denied anything was going on; he denied that anything was wrong; he denied everything, including his love for you. But maybe now he will begin to see the light and things can be better than they were before. They can never be the same, but that doesn't need to be a bad thing.

Mark

Mel,

Thought I'd add this....

The best lie detector is not nearly as good as him showing you that he is honest.

And BTW, you will quickly reach a point where you will need to take a break from dealing with the A all of the time. Just let it go for a while and do things to rebuild your relationship. Have a date w/ him. Go someplace as a family and have fun. You can't undo what has happened and as long as progress is being made, you don't have to fix it all at once.

Just fall in love with each other all over again and deal with the aftermath of the A in your spare time.

JAT

Mark

This is all sooo overwhelming. It all makes sense to my intellectual side but my emotional side not so much. Its still so soon. Trust is and always has been a very hard thing for me and my trust in him ran very very deep. Even after dday #1 I thought okay so he'll make stupid decisions without thinking but he would NEVER lie to me. And then he did so flawlessly. He looked me dead in the eye and lied.

I keep harping on the kiss and their time together here. And I know that whats done is done but god I wish that wasn't part of my life. Everyone keeps saying that he was in a fog, that he didn't know what he was doing but I don't buy it. They discussed how hurt I was going to be-that shows presence of mind. It says we know-we just don't care.

The last six months have been filled with him telling me how perfect they were together, how fabulous she is, and how well she understood him. How easy it was between the two of them. This was torture. All the I know the perfect gift for her but no idea what to get you comments. They were like a swift kick to the gut. Now I hear about her begging him to leave us, how she loved him, how she would do and say the things I won't. She doesn't challenge him and so on...

I hate that he failed and I feel worse. Why does it work that way? I addressed the issues I carried into our marriage and worked hard on them so that he could continue this and even worsen the sitch. So that he could fall in love with someone else and continue to tell me I wasn't good enough.

I just want to feel confidant in myself again and this has destroyed it. I no longer trust myself to protect myself and that is the scariest place I've ever been.

I just want to scream and wake up from this nightmare.

Mel

Hi Melly, I am passing on a message to you from Delean-de (Kimmy). She was iced in and unable to get on-line and wanted you to know she has not abandoned you.

Tell her I said thank you!! And I hope she is doing well. Of course i hope she gets thawed out soon. I look forward to hearing from her.

Mel

Mel,

All of this sure is a pain, ain't it? I really do know how you are feeling (at least I think I do, since I had a similar experience).

I guess I'm just one of those people that seems to thrive on logic. I often choose to believe what I know to be the truth, even when the known "facts" don't seem to support it. For me, knowing the truth and believing in Dr Harley's concepts was all it took for me to overcome my feelings on a daily basis. I didn't (doesn't)hurt less that way, but I never quit believing.

Another thing that helped me a lot early on in all of this (and still does) was that I knew that, regardless of the outcome, God was in control. I may not understand why things happen the way they do, but I don't have to understand everything to trust that God wants only what is best for me, even if that isn't what I want at the time. Besides, for me, faith is believing that God has it figured out and is taking care of it on those days when my world seems to be crashing all around me.

I'm not saying He "caused" it to happen, but if we can give it to Him, He will take care of it.

In the first week after Dday, a friend of mine told me to read Psalm 102. The first 11 verses described where I was. Verse 12 told me that I would be OK, whatever the outcome.

Hang tough. It WILL get better.

Mark

LOOK!

Sensei Orchid posted!

And being sensei, she is entirely correct...

Ark has a thread called "BSes Just Be Quiet"

Melly,

You need to calm yourself. You need to focus on you. We cannot change our pasts...no matter how much we'd like to.

As for my trusting the Wookie...it was not something I handed to him casually...he EARNED it back. HE WORKED FOR IT. What is your wh doing to earn your trust?

But you do have a job to focus on also. You must learn patience. What are you doing to heal yourself? How are you practicing patience?

I'm glad Faithy was able to get on and let you know I hadn't forsaken you. I thought (read: worried) about you while I was away. Brrrrr, it is cold here!

- Kimmy

Hi Kimmy!! So glad to hear from you. I always look forward to your wisdom.

I am trying so hard to keep my perspective but it is definately not easy. I don't trust my H and that is so scarry. He was my best friend. The one person that I thought would always be there has left me alone. I feel so disconnected from everything. Its crazy but I feel incredibly violated. I feel like I've been sleeping with the enemy. Like I've spent the last year and a half with a stranger. After dday #1 I certainly did not feel so abandoned. I feel like I'm in the passenger seat of a car crashing at 200 mph. All the times we've made love or held eachother feel like violation. Like love is the last thing you would use to describe those times.

As far as him working to rebuild trust...he is looking for a new job. He has started therapy, he is going to start using my cell phone because i have access to the records. But obviously he could just call her from work or email her from work like he's been doing. I would never know. Do you have any other ideas because this is a start but not a beginning if that makes sense?

Now focusing on me. I don't trust myself anymore. My instincts screamed he was lying but I believed him when he said the door was closed and he didn't want anything to do with her. How do I begin to trust myself again? What do I do with myself until he proves himself? Do I make plans for just the kids and me? Do I move on without him so to speak for the time being? Patience is sooo much easier said than done. How do I begin to pick myself up off the floor?

Mel

Mustang Sally...girl, you gotta slow your mustang down!!!!!!!

5 million questions and thoughts you zing out there...

I'm in awe...but I remember how it was. Your mind working 90 to nothing all the dang time...

About you...

Let's talk about taking care of you and your littles.

Are your two older ones in school? If they are, a quick note to their teachers informing them that there are some issues going on at home and if their teachers notice any changes to please let you know asap.

As for you, what have you done to better your mental and physical health? A lot of us lose weight on this infidelity diet. Do not forget to eat and by all means keep a bottle of water handy.

Right now you are the only consistant parent to your littles. I know that sounds harsh, but until your wh begins earning your trust again, you are all they have.

As for doing things with the wh and the littles...yeah...make plans to do stuff and let him know, but do not expect him to want to play. That way if he does, it's an added bonus to EVERYONE.

And I know it's awfully embarassing, but talk to your doc about what's going on in your life. Those 90 to nothing thoughts sometimes won't shut off on their own...they didn't for me...and it can make sleeping or concentrating on other things difficult. It's not a BAD thing to ask for help if you think you need it.

I was awfully mad at the Wookie when I realized that I needed help. I thought HE should have noticed that there was such a wrong in me...I didn't realize at that point in his own wallow, he was not CAPABLE of taking care of me...oh...boy! And did I ever resent the h-e-l-l outta him for it.

As for picking yourself up off the floor...I've got two strong shoulders....you are welcomed to one of 'em anytime you need....

For him....new job...GOOD! Therapy...GOOD! Using your cell...GREAT! A nudge, nudge, hint, hint from me to him...the more you hold yourself accountable, the more at ease your dear wife will feel. If accounting for time, $ and phone calls make her feel better do it HAPPILY without grumbles.

- Kimmy

I've never been one to just wait. I have a VERY hard time slowing down. I like answers and can't stand the lack of them in this sitch. I like to keep moving. Problem is I know how long and hard this is going to be.

I talked to the kids teachers. My oldest's teacher grew up with a father who cheated onher mother so she beyond sympathetic. She was the first to commend me on "kicking him out" and to offer support. My younger ones teacher is flighty and I'mnot a fan so counting on her is shotty at best. But its out there just in case.

This is consuming my every thought. I'm not accopmlishing anything which only makes me more depressed since I am usually such a task oriented person. Which in turn makes me feel like I'm letting myself down even more than I already have. Not to mention my kids. My oldest is having a hard time accepting that my H is living here again. She feels he gasn't learned yet and won't as long as hes here. She has asked to sit down with his therapist. She wants to be informed on his progress and is looking for her own answers as she is ashamed of him and herself for loving him anyway. She wants to protect me and herself. I am so proud of her for even wanting to see his T because shes trying, she wants to find a way to forgive him.

I need to seek antidepressants. I know that. I keep putting it off because right now it feels like what should be his shame is mine. I am so angry at him for this.

I was in therapy for the first year of his A. I had my own issues to deal with and I did. One of my greatest achievments. I know them and can address them but this whole thing has made them rear their ugly head. i just can't get over how lost I feel. Its weird because this is the same feeling I had as a kid all the time but I don't remember ever feeling quite so scattered. Then I had no one to depend on and expected as much. Now, I thought I had my H. I thought I could trust that he'd be there...always. I thought I was finally safe. Safe to feel, safe to connect without fear. I know I have the tools to deal with this but I am having the hardest time finding them. I just never thought I'd be alone again.

Thank you so much for your help and insight. I can not tell you how grateful I am.

mel

Antidepressants saved me. I won't lie. I needed them...even tho at the time I resented the ****** out of needing them....but they saved me from the obsessive thinking so that I was able to stay on task and focus on what I needed to do to make MY life better.

Your dau knows a lot for her age...I know my Bekah gets it...but she doesn't understand the details of it. It kinda sounds like your dau does ... and I can totally understand her resentment and anger. What waywards don't understand is the depth of comprehension the children have...and what they don't have in comprehension, they make up for with reading the moods of the grown ups around them and acting on that radar. It might be a good thing for your dau to talk to the therapist...for your wh and for her.

Go make an appointment today...even if it's just to TALK to your doc. You'll feel better for it, I promise... It's a step in the direction of taking care of yourself. Only when you take care of you can you take care of your littles.

All my love,
Kimmy

And (straightening my MB beanie cap w/the propellers)...

It wouldn't hurt for you to read Surviving an Affair.

Good stuff in there...very good stuff.