Harley's list of most important ENs

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

I was looking at this list thinking ~something is missing~

one of my H's more important ENs is [color:"blue"] spiritual connection[/color]

H is fulfilled when he and I connect on a spiritual level ... through prayer and other ways

has this occured to anyone besides myself?

I am still thinking about this and trying to make it more understandable and workable ...

but I think this is a very valid need ...

what say you?

Pep

Harley puts "churchgoing" as a recreational activity in his home study course. That struck me as a little odd, but it throws church into the realm of POJA.

Which is tricky for those of us who feel that WS's dropping of spiritual connections was part and parcel of the A dynamic, and that lack of spiritual grounding makes us feel unsafe.

But I can also see the logic. It's important to me, you need to know that. You have an aversion, I need to know that.

Yes, Pep. It is one of my top needs to be able to have this kind of connection with ( shared interest in) my husband to be.

It was a criteria on the top of my list when I was deciding what kind of a man I wanted to marry.

It an area of huge interest for both of us, and we both strive to be spiritually minded people... and this leads us to many activities we can share together.

I can no longer imagine being with someone who doesn't place spirituality as their highest and most important quest.

You say you can't love a man you can't respect, and in this way I don't think I could respect a man who would not strive for spirituality in his life.

Yes in this way I would say it is a huge EN of mine. I cuold of course meet it alone, but it would be incredible to have someone else to connect on this level with. (I do now)

Pep:

I agree with weaver, it's probably my top EN. And, as you know, I'm NOT religious.

If you have this EN, the others will fall in2 place.

-ol' 2long

One of OUR most important needs also.

It would be difficult for me to be married to someone who didn't believe as I believe.

Or someone who wouldn't / couldn't help with spiritual goals. The whole fabric of family life can revolve around these things, so it is often a very important need - at least as I understand needs.

One of the great things about MB, is that you learn concepts that you can extend to support your own beliefs and things that are important to you personally, but that may not be important to others.

Another one that comes to mind is "Living a healthy lifestyle."

It can fit under recreational too - but for some people it could be it's own need and more important than many other things on the list. I know people for whom this overshadows nearly any other part of their life. I might call it an obsession, but they think I'm crazy for not giving it more importance.

You may have seen people who didn't take these things into account before marriage, and regretted it after. Especially spiritual preferences.

SS

Absolutely!

Interesting

I am not "religious", but really quite spiritual

I see no spirituality of any kind in my husband

He has talked about going to church but I think that would only be to impress others and surround himself with more people

I don't think he has the faintest idea of what spirituality actually is

Yes, it would be nice to have a "spiritual connection" with my partner

Can we nail down the definition of "spirtual connection"?
Mulan

If you have this EN, the others will fall in2 place.

2long - I believe this with all my heart. Maybe one of the most profound things you have ever said.

Thanks -

SS

To me it is defined as "a connection to God(and or the universe) as defined by the individual"

What is interesting to me as far as my fiance is concerned is that to him he defined his top EN as being able to feel the dirt in his hands (landscaping/gardening). This is how he creates and in his creating he feels the most spiritual connection.

thanks guys ... I thought I might be a lone ranger taking this thought path

Pep

I am in total agreement that Spiritual Connection is a need for many of us. It is both my wife's and my number 1 need. I wonder why Harley put it in with recreation? It is much more than that for me. If I had to give up all but a couple of my needs (for some reason) then I would keep that spiritual connection right to the end. Without it life is just much shallower and less important. I don't think it is religious for everybody but it could be for some of us. We are more than evolved animals. I believe we are creatures of the spirit, too, and our spirits have needs for connection on a spiritual level.

Mulan, you bring up an interesting point - Just how do you define it?

It really bothers me sometimes, because those involved in an affair often say they have a spiritual connection - but I wonder how you can be spiritual when you are betraying someone on that level.

So, how do you know if it's real?
Does it matter?
And yes, how do you define it?

Pep, you really opened up something this time. I think you do it on purpose. (grin)

SS

this just made me so happy to read

thank you so much friend

Pep

Pep:

I believe that the "spiritual connection" that you refer to comes about because the other EN's are being addressed, met, and you are cared for by the other spouse.

So, in order to get there, you are meeting needs and connecting to your spouse. The more connection, the more spiritual it becomes.

My W never felt a true "spiritual connection" with me, because of the type of person I was. After Dday, After Harley, and after finally accepting that I was wrong in many respects, a "spiritual connection" has begun to form.

And what an exciting place this is...



LG

i often wondered myself why Harley didn't have it as a need.

i have a need to be spiritually connected. one of major changes that DH made prior to me confessing was finally understanding that need and he started going to church together, holding my hand during the service. it meant so much to me.

but that all changed when i confessed.

my DH spiritual life is very private to him. not something he was prone to really share. now, there is the added problem of DH feeling somewhat betrayed by our church. at least i think that is the case. you see, the MC that eventually told me that my DH did not love me, the one that was pro-divorce, came as a recommendation from our church. and after everything came out, including hearing what that MC told me privately (about how he didn't think DH loved me, something i did not tell DH about when it first was said but only years later). DH went to our pastor in the hopes of having the MC no longer supported by the church. i was not there, i'm not sure i understand what really occured during that exchange.

so any talk of church is very upsetting to him and i fear i don't really understand how that is impacting him.

it seems as though at this point, trying to even discuss the topic is a LB to him.

It's that dang fog confusing these folks. I was more in the fog than even the most fogged out when I was with you know who. It was also the darkest, most unproductive, uncreative time in my life. I was basically in ******.

A spiritual connection could never be one where harm is being done.

A "spiritual connection" with another person would not differ from a spriritual connection with God, as in it could only increase and expand God's love, or everything that is holy(good). If it does harm, it ain't spiritual..

As I see it anyway.

The need for spiritual connection didn't surface in our M until I was pg with our son. Toward the end of pregnancy, I realized I was responsible for an immortal and vulnerable soul. That I could not do his soul justice without some kind of anchor in faith.

Hormones, maybe.

The concern seemed alien to my H. He "went along with" our baptising DS, and cared not a whit.

For a long time, spirituality wasn't important again. Until it came time to send him to school. I argued to have him put into Catholic school so that he would have a religious foundation. Found that the curriculum was disappointing, vague, lacking solidness.

Crisis - H began "friendship" with colleague. It got stronger and he became cold to me. I turned to church.

Finally, he came clean. D-Day. Well, not exactly clean, but I got the "The passion is gone. I never loved you" speech.

A year or so later, I met & began learning with a rabbi. Search for God's plan took on momentum. Finally, had substance to share with DS when he brought home vapid pointless homework from Religion class. Fed my own spirit; gave DS food for thought.

Tried to introduce the ideas and concepts of Bible history, morality, other stuff into convos w/H. Uh-huh.

At this point, we are about to finalize divorce settlement. No convo of ANY kind any more except bare bones arrangements re DS.

And if I were to date, it would be somebody interested in Judaism, somebody Jewish, who wanted to learn about God and think about Him.

Confused yet?

Belle ... that was wonderful

thanks

Pep

Pep,
You say your H needs this connection with you.

Do you need it with him too?

SS

I don't think it has to be only the result of other needs being met. The reason I think this is because my parents have been divorced for over 40 years but still have a powerful spiritual connection that keeps them friends although they don't meet many of each others most important emotional needs (such as SF). They say that it is because of their spiritual connection that they want to share communication and platonic affection, not the other way around. From the time they got to know each other when they were teenagers they knew that they were spiritually connected. Later they decided that their spiritual connection did not necessarily mean that they should have gotten married because they were not willing and able to meet other needs for each other, even though they could meet them for other people.

Spiritual connection seems a little bit mysterious to me but I don't think it is possible for me to be happy with someone without it. My wife and I think of each other as students together in the school of life. We are learning about life, love, God, and marriage together because we share a spiritual connection that I think would be there no matter what.