(((((((SL)))))))

sorry I can't offer more:)

Mimi, I am in agreeance with your statement. WH is no dummy; he has been to this website, he has counseled with Jennifer, he KNOWS what must be done. I cannot force it. I ask for what I need, and if he continually puts our M on the bottom of his priorities, and ignores iron-clad evidence that he is very much like ALL WS's, well, I will have to go back to Plan B followed by Plan D.

I am dealing with a WH who thinks he's DIFFERENT, just as we BS's initially think our sitch's are entirely different. I think we are all SPECIAL, UNIQUE, but in this situation, we ACT and react almost in a scripted manner. I think many WS's must realize that their situation is not unique, read the web information, soak it up, and THEN REALIZE that they, too, can have a recovered M, AND BE HAPPY in it. My WH almost surely feels he will never be happy here.

I don't have much more left in me, after one false recovery last year, and his 3rd EA, 2nd PA, I don't know if I can do this anymore. I really don't want to lose all that we have gained in our M because he is being too short-sighted right now. I'm not desperate by any means, it would just be nice to keep my home. I will not be able to afford much alone, and my DS will lose out on his creature comforts also. It's a drag to hold all of this in. I have already mentioned these things to my WH. He just talks about buying me out of the home and still having it, not really realizing that I'm not talking about my son VISITING his home, but US living in it. I told him that I may just have to attempt to buy him out so our son can continue with his life a little more unscathed by a D.

Who knows if any of it got through to him. Who knows what will happen. I will use my knowledge and find my way. I feel if he leaves this time, we will most certainly divorce, only for him to find out that he really didn't want that. Look, THIS IS TOUGH, I won't deny it, even for me, the one who was ready. I can only imagine what he is dealing with. I am trying to be a beacon, a voice of reason. I'm not going to force feed anything. I'm trying to guide. Oh, GEEZ now I'm talking too much.

I think my WH hates the fact that I come here. I think he may feel his guilt compound knowing that I am revealing PERSONAL information about him and me to a bunch of people he doesn't know. He doesn't want anyone to know about all of this.

I helped my brother purchase a new car today, with WH and DS in tow. I'm going to go to Target in a bit and see about a new purse, among other stuff (that place is an addiction all on it's own).

I will be back...

I really can't help you much. But I do know how you feel. My WH's affair lasted over 3 and a half years, and now it is over. In fact, the affair ended about the time the divorce was final. What a big fat waste. Our marriage ruined, finances ruined, and all for NOTHING.

That is the thing that makes me angry about all this stuff. The affair always ends. It makes me crazy.

Yeah, let's add to my stress the fact that I can no longer talk to my sister about my situation. She has become too angry to deal with it. She thinks that I am letting him run all over me, hurt me, and she can't stand it. I told her that I am dealing with things the best I can, and now, I will no longer bring it up with her. She said that it is probably for the best if I leave her out of it. She thinks that I am defending him. I'm not, NOT AT ALL. I'm defending my M, and attempting to be part of recovery. She doesn't understand, and I don't many who haven't been through this can.

Believer, I remember you posting that your WH came back asking you about recovery not long before the D was final, and that you were DONE. I can understand that. I think it is a waste, but if that is what must happen, then I will survive, just not as well as we would together...

Orchid: GODD! Glad you are able to help another. Seems for many of us, we gotta go through the fire of plan B to appreciate it's resilient quality.


Orchid: Yes, it was me. I usually don't post like that. Musta been kinds overwhelming for me. Since I have let my taker in....well....she gets a bit pushy sometimes and demands to be heard. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As for my job, since my tolerance level is lower now (post A), I don't put up with drama or crap as much. I let it go until I choose no longer to accept it in my life. For now I will bide my time until it is the right time to go. I don't want to state a timeline and commit but I am using my health as a gauge. Got more tests coming up this week. Got only 1 heart and have to take care of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Here's what another MBer shared with me when I first came to MB and was feeling quite low.

She was all the way on the east coast and used to post to me at all times. She helped me through some of my darkest days at the beginning. I recall her post telling me to take my right hand and put it on my left shoulder, then put my left hand on my right shoulder....go ahead and squeeze with both hands. Then she said ......there you have just received an MB hug from me.

So I share this hug with you.

From the middle of the big blue.....a MB hug and my warm aloha, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

SL, I wish there were more (something?) I could do to help. A big virtual hug from another hurting soul on the other coast is about all I have to offer.

Hang in there. You're doing all the right things and are an inspiration for me. Whatever happens, you know that you have done the very best that you could, and that's all that anyone can do.

And I still expect that this kind of hiccup is par for the course.

SL: I hope today is a better one for you.

I know you are dealing with your own "stuff," but I wondered if you could answer a question for me about when you started Plan B. Maybe I should go back to your first thread...

I have this sense of still fixating on WH, even though I'm in Plan B. I long for the day when my thoughts are more focused on ME. Hoping I'll get there.

Was this your experience as well? If so, how long before you really started to start focusing on yourself?

Sorry for jacking your thread. Thanks.
LS

Hey Sis,

You will fixate on him for a while; I would say about a month. You will slowly begin to detach and be able to think more clearly about what is REALLY happening and WHO you are really dealing with.

You will become more focused on you, but it's not obvious, it's subtle and happens over time. I'm not talking about exercise of reading books or leisure acitivities. I'm talking a sense of well-being, a sense of purpose, finding YOU among the rubble. Once you do, you will be able to make decisions without too much ado. You will also know what you want from your H upon his return.

Don't get me wrong, even when they do return, they have a battle to fight, and they still may lose, which, in turn, means you lose something too, BUT you will be able to go on, you will have gained a lot of strength.

You'll get there. One foot in front of the other, Day to day.

SL:

Good to see that your spirits are up.

Just keep telling the WH the same things. "This is hard and we can make it" "I here for you and ready to work it."

I too enjoyed the lack of responsibilty and freedom that OW provided.

And then I found out that if I put in even a small amount of EFFORT into the R and M that the responsibilities that I thought were so great, really were not that bad afterall.

Stay with it.

LG

Oh, LG, I so appreciate hearing from you. I hope you know how refreshing it is to hear from someone who has faced the other side of recovery.

WH's not talking much, hasn't all weekend. He's been sleeping earlier than I remember. I don't know if it's avoidance of the subject that he began, or if it's depression. Maybe conflict avoidance AND depression. My son is home with his dad today with a sore throat and cough. He had a fever last night. It just seems like the poor little guy can't get better.

I'm hangin in there. Much better today, except I'm beginning to feel a little 'under the weather' myself. I've been taking naps here and there too. I KNOW I'm tired due to stress, so I can only imagine that WH prolly is too.

I still give him kisses before bed, and before leaving home, and I give him at least one hug a day. I don't say anything, just hug him. I do have hope that he will choose recovery, fully. I'm not hinging everything on it, but I'm hoping.

SL,

Hang in there. You know it is wierd in a way and I know we have touched on it but this weekend was weird in a way. Not big battles but a few minor conflicts.

I noticed in the conflicts that I didn't buy into the old dynamic and she still tried to go down that road.

On my side I was a codependent, enabler with CA issues. Well the enabler/CA part is where she sees most of the changes I think. Especially the CA part.

What I realized is what we talked about here a lot. I started personal recovery long ago. I have worked with myself and improved myself.

Last night it happened again. Our grief now comes from her interupting me and underminig my authority with our son. But when I point out she did it to me last night she got mad at me. This was typical. When I get upset she gets more upset. She then brings up things not pertinent to the conversation. Etc Etc.

Last night I told her I have no problem with dealing with any of her points. It just wasn't fair for her to go off on tangents when I am upset. She told me I had no RIGHT to be upset. I didn't laugh but I wanted too.

I could walk through the whole thing but the bottom line is I am farther along then she is.

Just like you are with your H right now.

The other thing that strikes me about this whole recovery thing is a conundrum.

The BS that is us, have to "settle" for an Imperfect R.

I mean here we are smacked in the head with all the crap a FWS/WS spews and we realize that in order to move forward we have to live with this huge betrayal.

We do not beleive at that point in the perfect R or M but one where our love for our S will get us through.

The FWS/WS may still be caught up in the wanting everything, selfish phase that led them to an A in the first place.

Very weird to me that the BS has to take these rose colored glasses of to agree to get to recovery and the WS/FWS wants to keep them on.

Lets face it no matter what I did or didn't do I never had an A. That is the biggest betrayal. (short of abuse) Yet I am still here wanting to try and yet in some cases the FWS/WS doesn't make the same commitement to us.

AGain if this doesn't make sense I have been interupted 20 times trying to put this together.

Wow, Frog! It makes perfect sense. I love the rose-colored glasses thingy.

We, as BS's, do have to settle for what we were TRYING to avoid by exposing the A's, working the Plan A, etc. It's now too late for that, and I have accepted that. I have accepted that there was a time when my H did not love me, and still may not. I wouldn't say that I'm okay with that, but I accept it.

I fear that a WS, who has not been on the BS side of things, will never be able to leave that selfish, single-minded person behind. We liken it to drug addiction, and as many of us know, it is a life-long struggle. How easily I've seen people slip back into addiction...

Hi, I just wanted to pop in...not really keeping up these days...so sorry...

Frog, go to see you...

I have to agree with the two of you about imperfect R...how many times did I hear I'm not changing, I'm happy with myself and I settled...I was screaming NC, NC...and I would get lip service...I wouldn't enforce my boundaries b/c I knew that he wouldn't give me what I needed to recover...

It was round and round about the same thing and only getting worse everytime I tried...

The thing I do disagree with is the WS who has been the BS...in my case I don't think that it mattered...of course the problems started fromt eh beginning of our R and I just was naive...wanting to have a good thing...I mean it was better than...I don't know...I think I was looking for someone to save me...to protect me and for some time he did...or at least I thought so...

Like someone pointed out to me recently...How could your H let you have SF with OP...There are plenty of P in jail for jealousy and killing the cheating person and/or WS...

My H wasn't jealousy like that...this M has been great for him, but not for me...I don't think that God would wawnt someone to stay in a M like this...

So, anyway, thinks it's best if you stay still...let him catch up...he's just alittle slow...it's cool...

I wonder what that feels like recovery with someone who wants to work with you but is unsure of what needed to be done? How to get there? WHO really really wants to get there!

SL: From my thread today...regarding similar questions, and relating them to addictions...

I asked: But did I give up? Did I give up on him? [by going to Plan B]

The answer from FaithfulWifeCJ:
No, Lilsis, you did not give up. If you had given up, you would not be here asking and wondering. I want to remind you to envision a drug addict. You have had a affair-addict in your house, and in order to keep getting his "fix" he has brought sleezy, criminal-types into your house and into your life. Just like any addict, he does not see how stealing from you or hurting you does any harm--all he sees is the "fix." And like any addict, he is willing to steal or harm in order to GET his "fix". Soooo...like anyone would do if their own child were a drug addict--first you gave him rules that he refused to follow--outright refused. Then you showed him how living at home was a privilege, and one that he could lose...and that didn't motivate him to stop his drugs. Then you began to take away some of his privileges while simultaneously enforcing rules...and that still didn't motivate him to stop! Finally, he allowed someone into the house who took away the PRIZED POSSESSION that cost a LOT! And like anyone else who has had an addict in the house, you were put in a bad spot. You HAVE TO protect yourself and your home from the addict, because they can not think straight...you had to kick the addict out.

Now, no doubt the addict will spin a horrible story of abuse that you "kicked them out right when they needed you" blah blah blah. But the fact is, the addict will not stop doing their drug UNTIL THEY HIT ROCK BOTTOM and face the full consequences of their drugs. You made it so that can happen FASTER for him. You made it so that he does not suffer so long in his addiction. But in a way, it feels like you have completely given over your loved out to drugs, doesn't it? Like, "Now I've let him have all the coke he can shoot up!!" and you know what? You're right! He's free to snort his drug now all he wants! And you know what he'll find out (a lot faster, btw)? That his drug does not give him the high. That being at home was good. That he MISSES it. If you had let him stay at home and do his drug--it would have taken him a lot longer.


I also asked:
If WH and I did reconcile, would I ever be able to walk through the grocery store with him and wonder if he is looking at every woman there? Would I ever trust him again? Would I wonder forever? And is that how I want to live? Can I respect him again.

LilSis--think of a drug addict again. If the drug addict...ALL ON HIS OWN got himself into a rehab program...and on his own attended NA meetings...and on his own freely admitted that he was DEEPLY wrong and that now he sees what harm he did, whereas under the influence of the drug he didn't see it. Would you trust that drug addict again? Maybe not right away. But if the drug addict was where he said he was going to be...and with whom he said he was going to be. If the drug addict attended church on his own and you could see by his life that he had a relationship with God--a baby one, but it was a start! If the drug addict made the effort to stay away from his old junkie friends and make new, BETTER friends...and if the drug addict made specific efforts to tell you, "I don't want to GO to XYZ grocery store because there is stuff there that tempts me and I'm not sure I'm strong enough to stand against it yet." Would you begin to trust that drug addict again? If, over time, you could SEE the change in the drug addict's life, because of the changes HE made to his own life--can you see how and why you might be able to begin anew?

LilSis--this is what we are suggesting/encouraging for your life. For a long time now, you let your addict stay and tried to show him that you what he would be losing if he kept chasing his drug. Now, you need to let him catch the drug and decide FOR HIMSELF to stop chasing it. There's no way for him to see that (and see it quickly) if he doesn't lose it for a while.

Soooooo...for now, I have a suggestion. Do something uniquely YOU. You know how your WH never let you buy red pillows for the couch because they were too "loud"...but you LOVE red pillows?? Go buy some red pillows. You know how you could never leave your shoes in the middle of the room because he didn't like that? Wantonly leave them in the middle of the room and enjoy it! Eat cake for dinner. For now, do was is uniquely YOU.

Your faithful friend,


CJ

Rin, thanks for the reminder that not everything is black and white. I DO NOT want a false recovery, AND I don't think I can do this again. I feel like this is it, for me, for now, maybe forever.

LilSis, thank you for posting. It's interesting, and tough, watching someone go through withdrawal. WH was IN IT the first week, happy to be home, loving, touching, smiling, but then REALITY hit him HARD, and he had contact, then he was quietly suffering through withdrawal. His initial answer for 'feeling' better was D, because then there would be no more pain. WRONG! Just different pain, and more life altering.

When I was in Plan B, I tore out old carpet and laid new carpet tiles. I bought slip covers for my sofa and one of my comfy chairs. I started doing structural work on the house, and I bought a new comforter for my bed ( a luscious deep purple color duvet and pillow covers, plus PINK pillow cases!)

This time around, I have decided that my Plan will be to allow for WH to HAVE to make this decision alone. I cannot foster him in it. He must choose and then ACT on it. HE is still here. I don't really know what that means. He could be looking for a place to live, or biding his time until life HAPPENS to him. Maybe he's waiting for someone else to make his decision for him (his M.O.). I can only say that it will not be me this time.

Plan B was the first time in this whole mess that I feel like I did not enable him, that I let go. Scary thing is, right now, I'd rather be back in Plan B again, for the safety and quiet and serenity. It's easier to keep your
TAKER at bay there.

I'm seriously at a loss for what to do. My plan is to keep up the Plan A. HE will have to make this decision alone. I tell ya, it would be easier for ME (and me alone) to kick him out again, to give up and to move on, INITIALLY. I will follow the advice given here, to tell him that I am here for him, to show him that I am here for him. I don't really think there is any more that I can do. He must convince himself that his withdrawal is temporary.

I've always been good about pain, emotional and physical. I actually will tell myself that this too shall pass. It is temporary, and I will heal and be my old self again. I'm just not afraid.

Silent,

I have a question... I only know you through this lastest post. I'm beginning to feel I'm a Plan A drop out.

You seem so very strong.... did you have days of despair before going into Plan B?

PS. I'm hoping that your H emerges from the fog and sees what a special lady he has.

Still

Oh, Still, I definitely despaired before entering into Plan B, waiting for the crumbs to fall, and then trying to look myself in the mirror after eating them. When I went to Plan B, it was me enforcing the NO TRIANGLE boundary, the NO OP boundary. I was ready. I was becoming angry and needed to rest. The person I was faced with was not ready and had not seen what bottom looks like.

I was ready to let him go, so he could hit bottom or so we could transition to D. I let him go. In a way, that is our status now. Innocence is lost here, and I am well aware that I HAVE no one. That WH chooses to remain here, for whatever his reasons are. It would be lovely to hear that he chooses to be here to recover. I don't know that. I have my own suspicions, and have to deal with them as they come and go. I guess we'll see.

OH, these WS make me so angry...I'm wishing you both the best...guess I'm getting a little protective with the two of you...

Especially, Still, I see me WH in her's and just want to kick his butt! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SL-what can I say? "I" have learned alot from you and I love your crumbs and then having to look yourself in the mirror...that's the point that I am right now...I'm trying not to kick myself to much for eating them all these years...sure we had some good times...The kids and I were watching a VCR tape of F as a toddler the other night...

Great memories...but that's what they are memories...good to hold on too...For me, I feel that I have done what I can...I'm going Plan B alright...LOL...but I'm following through with Plan D...I don't see how I can take him back given our history of the bad stuff...

And, I know that he's going to try to get me back...just like he did last time...tell me that he'll do anything and then reneg...

Thanks Silent... it's comforting to know that I'm not stupid for feeling this way. I too right now am looking for crumbs. Something that I thought I was done with. You're right about looking in tha mirror after and trying to look at that face in the mirror. Wonder if that's how WH feel?

I have another question for you... did you send copy of PBL to OW ?

Today I'm going to go get some nice stationary to write letter on and get that all ready.

Rind... thanks for caring. Stay the course. I wish I had.

Still

I wouldn't clue OW into anything that you do. Don't bother sending anything to her. Your WH may not share the letter with OW, and that is how you want him to be with her, secretive. It's a chink in the affair armor to hide things from each other, just as they had hidden things from us.

Still, you are staying the course, by using the Plans. Nothing is OVER until it is OVER (and that doesn't mean D). I'm sure that a wayward has a hard time looking themselves in the mirror. I whince sometimes when I think of some wrongdoing to someone else. I'm pretty sure that it's even worse when it is someone that you care for (your BS). If you come across someone that can do terrible things and still look themselves in the mirror, RUN, do not walk, away from them, they are a danger to themselves and EVERYONE else around them...