Maybe a mistake, but I just sent my WH a copy of Trueheart's letter.

Okay nix a copy of letter to OW. She wouldn't even care anyway. This is all normal life for her (cheating and lying) She doesn'teven have the slightest clue about love and COMMITMENT.

I don't think it was wrong to send Truehearts letter... actually I printed it out and think I may include it in my PBL.

Still

It's a beautiful letter, filled with honesty, loving truthful honesty. No mush, no fluff. It's all substance, and it comes from a WS perspective.

my Ws has the same MO...I wonder how much worse their life can get to catalyst a change???



ok, you are superhuman..and my hero..have you always been such an ever present optimist..or is that new??/ I used to think of myself in such an optimistic way...now the anger and resentment have got their hold...

did you ever have life altering anger and resentment, and have come to deal with it??? I would love to know your secret...maybe its just the passage of time?? or a good plan B I bet!!

I am praying your strength holds out...that WH doesn't know how strong you are and what he is risking...stupid WH's are so blind to reality!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I was always a REALIST, with a tip toward optimism. I've never thought anything is perfect, but there was always beauty, regardless of the imperfections, there was beauty in imperfection.

I've always believed in the little things that many ignore. During the terrible times following Dday's, my reality was shaken, stirred, blended and spit out as an slushy. I've sense regained perspective. It's hard to focus when you are a pile of mush. I am me again, never really lost me, just got overshadowed in pain, loss, resentment, anger, FEAR. Fear was my biggest enemy.

I've seen it so many times here with the BS. Paralyzed by the fear of losing their spouse. The truth is, during an A, their spouse doesn't exist in human form. I've read their agony in trying to detach and do a good Plan A. You are asking a lot of someone who is dealing with the most dastardly betrayal of their life. It takes so much strength to perservere. I am NOW, where many will be or have been during this process. I am not superhuman, and I falter. I AM WHO I AM.

You will get back to you again, it just takes time and practice at not sweating the things that aren't real or true.

Looking back on how i've felt and where i've been, not just in my M, but in my life, I know that this too shall pass. It has to, life just is that way...

SL, my woman!

I understand what you are saying...I'm finding myself a little each and every day...I think it took months for the shock to wear off...

FB- IT will get better and SL is right "this too shall pass"

Fear is our biggest enemy, if and when you can muster the strenght to turn that fear inside out, thus becoming courage...you've won...not for anyone else but for YOU!

For me, I couldn't understand MBers who were ready to move on...leave the WS behind...there's a whole new understanding when you finally say "I will not tolerate this behavior anymore, and it's too late!"

Okay, LOL...I think I've said enough! LMAO

Does anyone who has traversed recovery remember how they 'broke the ice' with their spouses in terms of communication. I'm talking about how you began the process of JUST talking. What did you talk about?

Also, what was the general feeling around the house? Right now, my (F)WH seems a bit stand-offish. He doesn't initiate much conversation. I think his recent contact has set him back. He does initiate kisses when he leaves in the morning, just those little pecks, and tries to let out a smile. Other than that, he doesn't touch ME. I hug him now and then, and give him kisses. I don't say ILY and I don't expect it from him.

I'm just wondering about the little things that not many people exchange around here. The big things are obvious, but it's the little things that sustain me.

I guess I'm asking for guidance on how to 'treat' or relate to my H in his current state. (ALMOST needless to say, he is a bit withdrawn).

Hi SL, I don't post very often but I've been in recovery for three going on four years now. I know what you mean. At first it was awkward. It was almost like we really didn't know each other anymore. We both understood there was no way it could go back to the way it was before. Nor could we pretend that our marriage had not changed flavors permanently.

We "broke the ice" in tiny little chips at a time. A joke at an unexpected time (smart [censored] remark with a smile), a touch on the arm as we passed each other, and finally some REAL intense conversations (but only in small increments, that was all we could handle). As for SF—that was one of the hardest things for me—wondering. Well you know. We’ve been married 30 years and I can say that ice has definitely been broken and melted away. That’s because our LOVE for each other has grown through all of this.

It’s very hard (as the BS) to say what you’re feeling at the beginning of recovery because there’s so much that could come bubbling up that could do more harm than good. My FWH was afraid to say or do the wrong thing because he couldn’t bear to hurt me any more.

My FWH finally understood that we NEEDED to have some serious “during the affair” discussions because there was soooo much that I wanted to know—now that it was all over. I understood that I couldn’t beat him over the head with it after we talked and that in order for us to survive, we’d limit THOSE conversations to 5-10 minutes and no more. I would ask and he would tell—regardless of the pain. We both would hurt (sometimes dealing with my anger and tears) and THEN we would hug and tell each other it was going to be okay.

Then we had to deal with the triggers – mostly mine. Instead of silently enduring them, we agreed to let each other know when there was a trigger and to comfort the other when it happened. Mostly by simply saying, “I understand.” And boy howdy, the triggers were everywhere! It’s much better now, but occasionally something happens or comes up and there I go.

AND bottom line-- Life keeps happening and sometimes just that fact helps the ice to break faster.

Sorry this is so long!

Thanks princessmeggy,

I appreciate the LENGTH of your post. As I said, not many people discuss the minute details of recovery in the beginning. I think it bears a lengthy post from many people who have BTDT.

Maybe I'll try to think of a way to broach the subject in it's own thread, so that those of us in Plan A, Plan B and Plan A (for recovery) will understand this part.

Awkward is a great way to describe this. I KNOW my H very well, his likes, his dislikes, from BEFORE THE A, but as we all know, there will be changes in your WS that you may not be aware of. In my WH's case, he smokes now more than he used to. It's really not much, it's just odd that now he's the smoker in the house. UPSIDE, he's much more attentive to our son and his needs. He takes intiative in situations that he would leave to me before (I also sit back and allow him to take care of him, it goes both ways).

His A behavior, and fogginess has put a giant rift between us. I'm on one side of the canyon, he on the other. I'm not afraid to talk to him or approach him, no need to be. I'll be hurt whether I invest myself in recovery or not, so I see no point in ignoring him. It won't help.

As for SF, none since the first week he was home, probably due to contact TWICE now with OW. I sent him Truehearts letter. He seemed a little bit looser yesterday, actually called in the middle of the day to help me out with something, even though I didn't ask. I got triggered by that, because I began to wonder why he was so concerned about me being without a car until Friday (my car is in the shop for moonroof repairs and I have to use his car now and then). It makes me wonder, 'so, Friday is his last day here, he just wants to make sure I'm mobile again before he leaves'. I decided that could be true, but why ruminate on it. I have no idea what he's thinking, but I would rather believe, until proven otherwise, that he called out of concern for my situation and me, and not to guage when he can cut and run. I don't want to judge him prior to any act, that's just not fair.

Boy, you spurned a lot of thinking from me, and I greatly appreciate it. He's telling me about where he is and what he's doing, but there really is only so much trust I have there right now.

I'm still chugging away with me. Learning to corral thoughts before making DJ's. Learning to piece together why I feel the way I do about triggers. Learning that this is slower than watching paint dry. That's okay. I think it's just nice to know that this very unusual situation is not so unusual HERE.

SL,

I honestly tried to start the post but nobody showed up.

For me it is boring. Very boring. NO big sirens going off, or bells ringing or even the ah ha moment. It was just life again. Normal married life.

The stress of bills, kids, etc.

What made it possible for me was a repentant, remorseful FWW that was willing to take ownership of her actions.

One that was fully committed to making our M work.

OF course it took me the FU speech and me finally not wanting to stay to get there.

The whole time I was comitted to recovery it was a struggle the minute I gave up it became easy.

I think the lightbulb went on in my FWW head that she had finally found the line and crossed it.

So on a day to day we talk about the OS and his school issues. WE talk about our days. WE talk about what we talked about before the A and then some.

For me it isn't what we talk about it is how we deal with things now.

Not complete POJA but more POJA. NO 2x4's please. I just don't see the point in POJA ing on every little thing.

We are able to resolve things now where as some issues stayed open and festering.

I am more vocal, I do not back down just to make peace which is what I did.

Just a lot of little changes that make a big difference I guess.

It isn't some event or some, bell, buzzer or whistle. It is jsut married life.

Happy married life.

I think the part that I struggle with is this...

I don't think my WH is repentent right now. I think he feels horrible for hurting me, but recovery is hard, and the fact that his response to that was suggesting we D doesn't make me comfortable. Before withdrawal set in, he was great, talking about HONESTY and OPENNESS. He was reading at a break neck pace on this website. He sounded enthusiastic. He followed all of the conditions, then WHAM, he started missing her, and that drug-induced feeling, and shut me out again. SHUT DOWN.

He's going through the motions, but sometimes I wonder if I don't make his skin crawl with the rate at which he touches me. I have no comfort right now. I basically feel like he will be on his way out again, and is trying to find a way to do it WITHOUT hurting me. I have told him that that is not possible (when he mentioned the D last week), that his son and I will be hurt. I told him that I believed HE TOO would be hurt, but it would not happen until he'd gotten his fix and then added more damage to our M.

I am here for him, and hope that he decides to let withdrawal take place. My instincts are telling me nothing right now, but I do wonder if he is forever wayward in his thinking now. I don't know. I do know that there are people who cannot come back from this, who taste that life, and cannot return to their 'old' life. I may BE that old life.

I look back to the entirety of our R, prior to the A, and don't see anything bad, not really. I see two people who attempted to live autonomous lives as married people, not realizing that that behavior is actually detrimental to M, but I remember lots of love. He used to tell me I was beautiful all the time, even at my scariest. HE initiated hugs and kisses, used to wrap his arms around me when I was at the sink doing dishes. He used to LIKE me, even admire me. Now, I don't know. We'll see.

Really, it's out of my control, HE has control of whether he chooses to leave again; at that point, I think I'm heading to D. I sometimes think that I love him more. He has said that to me, and that sounds like his 'cop out' to me.

Look, I'm fairly exhausted from work, my son being ill for 4 weeks on and off, my H being sick on and off for 4 weeks, my car is in the shop, life, life, life. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I had to take so much time off of work to take care of my son, that I can't really afford time off for me to have my much needed nervous breakdown. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SL:

I wanted to comment on your stalemate.

You stated this:


And you compare this to earlier in your M:


But you descibe sort of the same scenario happening now.

But there was some more hugging and kissing going on, but even that went away after awile, before the Affair, I will assume...

I look at it this way. And this isn't anything more than my opinion.

Your R with H in the past was distant, you doing your thing and WH doing his. This develops many behaviors inside your M that are difficult to see, but exist nonetheless. Now that he is home, you are falling back into the same R behaviors, (and we KNOW the WH has trouble with behaviors!)

There is a canyon between the two of you.

What does building the bridge across that canyon look like to you?

Does WH have to start building from his side?

And then you will start building on YOUR side?

Hopefully to meet in the middle?

Or does he have to do it all?

What tools do you think you need to start this work?

Do you think he has the tools?

Are you willing to help him find some of them?

He was on this website, reading enthusiastically. Per your own statement.

And that stopped with contact of OW. So, we insure NC is in place and keep working him, OK?

Start building the bridge to him. He might want to help out before long.

And you can be ready for that.

And it starts with the 15 hours together. Maybe you do not do much, just play cards, put together a puzzle, something that allows chit-chat and bonding. Lots of touching can happen to.

Your way ahead of WH in this MB process and what you can see as the future. He needs to see some of that....

SL:

He said so many sweet things to you in his letter to come back to the house. Which part of that letter where he described you in such loving terms have you been providing him?

OK?

He's here, now he should just get "it" Doesn't always work that way. Takes awhile.

(((SL)))

No matter what, I know you will survive. What ever happens to WH, well that is his choice.


LG

I agree that I have to be a part of building the bridge. I can only ask for what I need to feel that he is open and honest. He takes his cell phone wherever he goes, including while showering in the morning. He has a My Space account that only his 'friends' have access to and I'm not able to see it. I've mentioned that I would like to, to no avail. I have no comfort level so far, no way to know that he is part of this dynamic AT ALL.

I don't think he should just get it, but I think that showing me that he would like to TRY is a good start. I guess I wonder what part in early recovery the wayward spouse should take, if any. I am assuming that I need to shoulder this for a bit longer. We are not spending 15 hours together, not in any quality way. I'm trying to schedule things for us to do. I mentioned hanging out in our 'game room', but he was tired, so I allowed him to sleep.

Like I said, I'm a bit worn down right now. I am not letting my TAKER out, but I don't think I have much to contribute this next couple of days. I need to re-energize. I'm tearing up right now, dangit!

The provision of the things he said about me in the letter. Hmmm, I am kissing and hugging, I dance around when I'm cleaning and just hanging out. I allow my goofiness, I'm open. It's been a little tougher since last Thursday when he said he wanted a D. That's a rough one to dismiss. When he said that, I expect him to push me away until I can't take it anymore. Until I can't take the rejection anymore, and I kick him out again. My MO. I'm working against that right now.

AS for the canyon, I have changed how I approach M. My mother always preached about taking care of yourself, because no one else will. I also saw that people leave when you become too much. Unfortunately, perpetuated in my M, as I knew no other way to behave. I do NOW. I don't know that WH feels the same way. I'm hoping that I can show him that I have made changes in my thoughts and behaviors.

I don't expect WH to do it all. I need time with him, so I will try to think of something to do together. I don't know if I'm supposed to R talk or let it be or what! I think I'm a bit confused.

have you tried planning a "date" to a place that he would like to go?

With our son being sick again, I will try something this weekend. It's tough to get someone to watch your child when they are ill.

I honestly don't know what he would like to do anymore. We used to enjoy going to the movies and dinner. Plain Jane, I know, but we really did. I was thinking of Mimi's suggestion to have the house to ourselves, but again, childcare is a toughie, no real support from family there. I'll try to work something out.

LG, I think LIFE, for now, is the real challenge. The fallout from all of the minor illness' taking their toll on my sanity. I'm really tired, and I think I could use some R&R. I'd like to do something, but my idea of fun is going out to a movie and dinner, and I don't think that qualifies in the 15hrs together (due to the movie, not dinner).

I think I'll ask H for some ideas; maybe he has something that he would prefer or like.

Taking his cell phone with him (and while showering!!!) is a big red flag. If he is having contact with the OW, he will never get through withdrawal.

How long has he been in NC now?

it does sound as though your H is still in contact

shich then explains why he is not putting any effort into recovery

WHY?

why would he come home and then resume contact?

does he think he can just keep hopping back and forth between both of you?

he must have made contact to deal with the pain of withdrawl
....but he's not understanding that he HAS to make it through withdrawl from the OW to find his real feelings for you again

have you come right out and asked him if he's contacting her?

i can't think of ANY explaination other than that for him to keep his cell phone with him and to have a "secret account"

a conditon for recovery needs to be complete transparency

i'm so sorry that your H isn't understanding

are you considering going back into plan B?

Agreed! If he's not doing this, you guys have a hard row to hoe. If he's still "hiding" anything, it won't work. I guess I should have said that in my first post... that IS the main thing that my RWH was willing to do. Otherwise I would have never begun to trust again.

{{{{{SL}}}}}

maybe it's time for another heart to heart.....he needs to agree to a plan for recovery

and if he won't you should at least consider plan B...or try telling him that you might do this and see if it gets him to change his thinking

ps
i can tell you the MB way to do it but i don't know that i'd be able to let my H go again if he came back