One more thing... then I'll let the pros help. In my case, at the very, very beginning, my husband also went through withdrawal, depression and waivering. I was so hurt because I thought once he came home, everything would be GREAT! It actually took some IC for him, anti-depressants and TIME for him to begin to really come around (and definitely NO CONTACT). More than once, he and I both were ready to just give it up. But once he was able to deal with his own demons (withdrawal), he hasn't looked back. It was a very slow process.

Hi SL....

Just wanted you to know that I am more of a 'lurker' on your thread....as I have not had any experience with 'recovery' with a willing WS, per say.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

...but I do remember that I found living with a a WS very draining..as I see you are too now....I think you are right... recovery is more than your WS bargained for.... particularly the PAIN..... and if contact is continuing...to avoid withdrawl...that's not good! ...and the situation will continue to be very demanding for you!

...but, like you are aiming to do, I did tough it out long enough to make sure that it was WS's decision to 'destroy' family and leave on his own! ...he would have much preferred I KICK him out.... the guilt factor would have been better to deal with for him....

...the one thing I would change...would be to have taken better care of myself....I was so overwhelmed by WS's behaviour...that often I was very ineffective and vulnerable ...so... that's what I suggest to you....figure out how to recharge yourself...to enable you to continue to be supportive, hopeful and honest with your WS's struggles.....

I may have missed it...but has your WS (or you) confirmed contact with OW? ...does he intend to stop contact?

...since you say he has read articles on this site.....do you think he realizes the importance of N/C for your recovery? .....that withdrawl is 'temporary' and that it will 'pass'...but that with contact....the cycle starts all over again?

Do you think he might have also been 'testing' you when he brought up D last week to see your reaction?

...uhmmmm... sorry for all the questions SL....not sure if this is being very helpful to you.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

....how about a nice bath....with a lovely slow 'instrumental' music playing.....lit only by candles... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

...you could offer this to your WS as well....he could use it...and might appreciate the offer...with no strings attached! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

...bottom line...SL....I am rooting for YOU girl!

((((((((((((((((((((((SL)))))))))))))))))))

Silent:

Cellphones in the shower?

MySpace page?

Contact time.

Plan B Time.

Get his fence-sitting butt to CHOOSE.

The first week back was great, then he went back to contact the "new" OW and thought that the view from the top of the fence was pretty nice!

Gotta break that before you ever really can make inroads with the candles and movies...

I'm still in your corner.

You can plan A the heck out of him right now, but I think that instituting a Plan B deadline of the next three-four days for access to cell and myspace page, complete transparency, or back to friends house he goes.

BTW:

I got my cell phone bill yesterday. Used 400 minutes. Why is this important? I am paying for 800 minutes a month. And I used to use them with OW. Now, my cell is only used sparingly. And I mainly talk to W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Before D-Day, I wouldn't let my cellphone out of sight.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


LG

This sounds like really good advice. You have to have transparency. It's part of the extraordinary precautions, right?

(((SL)))

I'm done. WH wants divorce. I talked from 10PM - 2am with him. He says that he hasn't been happy here since before his first affair. He thought he would be happy this time.

He said that he doesn't WANT to let go of OW, so I told him that we want him, but the door is opened, there are no bars, this is no cage.

He wanted to sleep on the couch, but I couldn't take him being in the house, so I asked him to follow through with what he wanted NOW instead of tomorrow morning. No reason for a stay of execution.

Worst part, I'm getting ready to go wake his son up and get him ready for daycare, and his daddy's not here again.

Divorce is the topic for today...Any takers?

I had sincerely hoped that WH leaving again would not hurt as much as before, but OY ,it does.

Let's all say it together, "Carole is an IDIOT!"

I'll say this...

My situation is DIFFERENT in that my H..as far as I know..only had ONE VERY LONG-TERM AFFAIR...

However, he did LEAVE TWICE..the last time PLANNING TO DIVORCE ME supposedly....BEFORE the current RECOVERY...

So, it's your choice. It certainly was hard for me continuing to try but in the long run it has been worth it for ME.

So when I was in YOUR SHOES, I did PLAN B....

(((((SL)))))

things to do:

1. contact an attorney and get things arranged for a separation agreement & child support

2. get things lined up for Plan B ... and begin a PITCH BLACK plan B within a week ... or, as soon as possible

3. until then, keep all contact with WH ~neutral~ .... do NOT discuss anything but the welfare of the child

4. your H needs PAIN associated with losing YOU ... please make sure he gets what he needs ~~~> in buckets !

5. make sure the agreement makes YOU the sole resident of your home ... and once that happends ~~~> change the locks

6. get a PO Box for attorney related mail

7. get a bank safety deposit box for important documents ~and~ cash you start to squirrel away

8. get an intermediary NOW

9. get a medical check up & be HONEST about what you are going through

10. breathe

SL:

I will jump in:

"WH is an idiot."

And yes it does hurt.

But, that is because of his choices, not yours.

You are doing the right things.

He'll be back.

OW #1, or OW #2 or OW to come. What have they got?

Plan B, and let him do the Plan D work.

But he won't.

He doesn't have enough gumption for that.

You can file, and just end this episode in your life.

But, he'll be back.

It cold on that side of the fence. There's some sun on top of the fence.

What he doesn't realize is the Sun, beach, and drinks with umbrella's in them are on this side of the fence.

And you can never MAKE him realize this. He has to do it.


LG

Yep..as Pep is alluding..my FWH had to REALLY, REALLY REACH THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL..come FACE TO FACE with the GATES OF HE// he says..come to terms with what a LOW LIFE THAT HE HAD BECOME...

That was the result of (my periods of ) DARK PLAN B..and the indications to him that I was MOVING ON WITH MY LIFE by selling the house and not trying to contact him...

The problem for your WH will be..will you still be around...

My H came to FEAR that I would not be able to forgive him and to accept him back...

I don't know if it's different for a serial adulterer..but your WH does SEEM to want to do the RIGHT THING..it doesn't seem to be a LIFESTYLE PATTERN for him..

It's hard for some of them to BEAT THE ADDICTION..it was for my WH who really considers himself... if you ask him today... to have been ADDICTED...just like a drug addict or an alcoholic..he IDENTIFIES with such folk...and I think continues to STRUGGLE with this weakness given his own chosen STRICT ADHERENCE to EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS...

right now, my choice is Plan B, with the knowledge that my WH states that he wants a divorce. I have told him that I want him but do not NEED him. I told him that I will not be talking to him after this weekend, in order to facilitate his moving his things out. I have also told him that I will NOT file for a D, as this is not what I want, I choose M.

I've made sure that he knows that he must remove his things and then leave the new key, to the new locks that I have already installed. I had an LSA drawn up last year, that he never signed, and was part of the impetus for him writing the letter to me that encouraged me to end my Plan B. I'll be honest with you, I don't think I can go on for two years waiting for his affair to end. I am finding it hard to deal with the multiple affairs. He has told me that this may be who he is now.

For now, I will relax back in to Plan B. I'll just get on with my life with my great kid and two dogs. I rather enjoyed the down time I had. I had mini vacations when my WH had my son every other weekend. I could also go out and make plans with my friends on those weekends. It's really not all that bad.

I would hope that my WH would wake up sooner than later, but he's totally freed to be with OW now. He may feel guilty. The truth may be that he REALLY, TRULY never was in it to stay. That's okay, that's his reality, now I have to figure out how long to wait or what to do. Plan B is a good place for that.

I just wish the pain wasn't so very strong. I have been to the doc recently, (while still in PlanB) and talked to her about WH, and my meds. I don't feel the need to do that again, not right now. I feel the need for peace, so I can cry and grieve a bit again. It SUX that this has to happen again. I feel like an impetuous child, stomping my feet, NOOOOOOOO, I won't do it! BUT, I know that I have to grieve. I'm just tired of this cycle. I'm breaking it now. This is what my WH said, that he is breaking the cycle by finally divorcing me and leaving.

Good girl

There is almost NO ONE in my life now that would be okay with my WH being in my life again. Everyone hates him now. It's a lot to deal with. My sister is enraged! She actually talked about having someone 'rough him up'. She's NUTS! I have told her that will not make anything better. My son is in the middle of this and I will not be the one to make things WORSE!

I'm level headed.

Mimi, I really hope that he hits bottom this time. I dunno, he seems pretty driven to do this. I've seen this before, when he left the last time. I find that EVERYTIME I go dark, he comes back. I even told him this. That everytime I start to move on, he comes back. I asked him what he thought that meant; why he continued to do this? No real answers. He's lost to me right now. Again, so be it.

I slept about 2 hours last night; too many thoughts bouncing around this pea brain. I hope to get some sleep tonight. I know once his things are removed and we don't have any contact, I will sleep tight again.

Please help me now! My own mind is going to be a roller coaster! I'm so glad that I don't have to make any decisions right now.

Oh SL, I am so sorry for your pain you are feeling now. I know you (and all of us) had so much hope for recovery.

You will be in my prayers. The one thing greater than your strife is His grasp.

SL: I am proud of you....you did what you could..... his choice....HIS butt will be out of the house, though! ...your WS is still DEEP in fogland to think like this.... GGGRRRRRHHHHH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

((((((((((((((((((SL))))))))))))))))



No you're not! ...I know it hurts a lot now....but this way...in the future...you can hold your head up high....with a clear conscious...that YOU gave your family your best shot....by taking a risk.....by making yourself....again....vulnerable enough....to have the courage to give your WS..and your family....a chance... but now....no ifs and no buts!....the responsibility of breaking up the family sits squarely on WS's shoulders ..... and the OW will have a hard time MAKING UP for the loss!

....you, my dear girl....get your butt to PLAN B as soon as you can....and PROTECT yourself!

I'll stop here...sorry...trigger time for me....good thing for your WS I am cyberspace away.....because if I was there.....he would get a piece of mind for messing around with you like this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Pep and LG....thanks for the 'nuts and bolts' you are offering our friend.....great advice!

...gonna go and let off some steam first before I can be of any use to SL...or anybody for that matter! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thank you Eph, thank you very much.

Thank you all, Pepperband, LG, Mimi. You all inspire me to hang in there.

Silent,

I'm sorry to hear about this latest situation. I think you have done everything possible to try to save your marriage. You've made tough decisions and done an admirable job of being outwardly strong while hurting inside.

Let me remind you, as so many have reminded me, these difficult times will one day pass. Some day you will be happy again.

I agree with Pep that your PLAN IS GREAT and you sound as GOOD AS CAN BE EXPECTED.

I hope you, like me, find that KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

So I will share this observation that your RECOVERY was probably DOOMED with that first LUNCHEON MEETING with her.

Looking back I've learned that there has to be ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT AFTER THE MINUTE THAT RECOVERY BEGINS...or the AFFAIR IS ON AGAIN..

You did your VERY BEST and I ADMIRE YOU, SL...

This is all SO VERY HARD AND PAINFUL FOR US ALL HERE....We FEEL YOUR HURT AND PAIN..

(((((SL))))))

Luna,

Steam away! Thank you for reminding me about Plan B, as everyone here has. I really do feel messed around with; I feel foolish for believing in him. I just feel foolish all together, and hope that people do not lose respect for me. I am really only trying to keep my family together, and be happy together. I wonder, is that so wrong?

I asked WH why he did this? No real good answer, nothing that really correlated to the letter, the NC letter, the intial diving into MB, the counseling. It just doesn't make sense to say that you wrote the letter because you were going through withdrawal FROM ME, and then decide to throw it all away.

Look, these last four weeks have been pretty bad. His work deadlines, my DS being ill, multiple times, and WH being ill, multiple times. LIFE happened. He just seemed to not want the responsibility. I told him that I am left holding the bag, and that I will protect our son and take care of everything else, because that is what I choose.

He said that he felt like everything was like it was last time he returned home, he felt nothing had changed. I asked him if I had made noticeable changes. He said yes. I asked him if our DS was changed, he said yes. I asked if the home had changed, he said yes. I asked what part of things being the same WAS the same. He became quiet. I asked if he thought that the problem lay within himself, and not that nothing had changed. He said that is a possibility.

Geez, it was a looooong conversation. I told him that I couldn't stop talking, that I was trying to discuss all that we could before he left. I said that if I kept talking, something may make sense to him. He said much of what I said made sense, but he didn't WANT to give up OW (same thing he said to me about OW#1). It's almost like he's a child. That P/A behavior of a wayward.

Oh boy, I am in a bit of shock. I still shake my head and wonder if this is really my life. Separation, infidelity, and divorce always seemed so benign from the outside. Now that I'm in it, I wonder how people hide this kind of pain so easily. I KNOW it's not easy, but I'm wondering..

asking an idiot "why are you an idiot"

is silly

but, I did this as well ....

do me a favor

make a list

"I am certain......"

just for yourself

here is mine

[b]1. I am certain YOU are not a FOOL
2. I am certain YOU are going to be okay