thank you pep
for listening and talking.. for encouragment...

negotiate a way where you can begin to do "this"

start by kissing

I think I hurt to much for a kiss... But hugging is a start I can do...

BBIAB I need to get the kids from daycare.

I’m not a nice person. I call spades by their real name, shovels…and what they move around isn’t excrement, it’s s**t, okay? If you can’t handle uncomplimentary suggestions, don’t read any further.

Okay, if you’re still with me, I don't know what Dr. Harley would say to you if you called the radio show...it might be interesting to hear his advice. Why don't you call? Since I can't figure out what the MB response on this subject should be, I think I'll borrow a little from Dr. Phil.

I think I'm correctly interpreting what you've written. You committed adultery with another man only a couple years into your marriage and wound up presenting your husband with (here’s me not being nice) a b***rd child. I don't know what else went on...but he stayed with you and worked through it with you, right? Evidently, he did wrong and committed adultery also, though whether it was one time or a lengthy period isn't apparent from what you wrote. Is that a decent synopsis of what went on 8 years ago? If there’s something else, you should say so.

But…if I’m reasonably accurate in my summary, seems to me you could cut the man some slack here, Lady. You say you're 30 years old, but you're reacting like a teenager. You commit the ultimate betrayal and humiliation a man can suffer and you're upset because he sought solace by engaging in a form of sex with an OW you're too (whatever) to do? What he did was wrong, but it looks to me to be a clear reaction to your action. He was equally clearly wrong to commit adultery as part of his response and I condemn him for it. The old saw that two wrongs do not make a right applies.

However, I think you would be best advised to recognize you now have an opportunity to show your husband the compassion and loyalty he showed you 8 years ago. Buy Dr. Harley's book, study it, apply it, and get over BOTH adulteries.

Hey at least your honest! Thank you,.
As for the OC each there own in thinking what they feel with that. I have never said I belittle him now, I havent gotten into a HUGE fight over the side of his A I have the right to feel lied to..to hurt... What happiend was when we were working on things then he should have been clean and honest with me then... why wait 8 yrs to bring it up now.. To cause the pain that YES he went thru when I had the A ... What have I done to deserve the truth to be hurt to in the last 2 days> I havent done anything. Oh but the fact that I didnt or wont give him what the OW did then to him now... He brought up his A only to hurt me... Not to tell me or get it off his shoulders... To hurt me.
I came back as honest to him as I could. He lied to me when I asked him then... I appriciate my DH , I do what I can for him. I do not have any intentions of being the old person he thinks I will do.. I have grown from 8yrs ago... How do you show compassion with pain... Most I can do to that would be to talk to him... To listen to what he has to say... And take one day at a time... And yeah two wrongs dont make a right..

There's more to this than meets the eye IMO. No loving husband wants a separation because his W will not give oral. If you refuse intimacy, intercourse, kissing, cuddling, nice lingerie, manual, etc and then will not give oral then there would be a problem. But just refusing something like oral does not cause a husband to want to go and find another W I don't care how good it was.


There is more to this (Husband seeing someone?, emotional needs not being met, too much DJ, LB ing, not spending enought time together, talking, building your R, or something). Just my opinion.

APC:

Longhorn was tough.

But your story, and your H initial revealing of his A were discounted by you. Then 8 years later, it comes back.

And he says that his OW gave great SF.

So, How good is HE? Does he give you good oral SF? Or do you find that a turn off as well?

Does he take his time, comfort you, get you in the mood, pay attention to what you need? DO you do this for him? And not just the oral part.

Because, when it is good, the whole body becomes sexual. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> And if it isn't great, then just the ACT occurs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Do you see the difference?

His OW may have done something better than you. But you still have boring old H doing it the same way with you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Think it through. AND then loosen up.

And make time for each other... 15 hours a week according to Harley, Makes all the difference in the world! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And listen to Pepperband. She can help you find your wild side!

Hopeandpray

We dont spend alot of one on one time.. He works during the day I work at night... I take care of the kids during the day he takes care of them at night...

He is lonely at night... I just recently had 4 days back to back off the last two weeks. This past week we did family things 2 nights, dh and I watched a movie after we put the kids to bed together one night, the last night we invited a couple over for some drinks... We dont lack anything in the bedroom only the one deed I dont perform..

I used to be heavy into the romance lingerie candle thing but for atleast 9 yrs we fought hard over an issue he had, I gave him an utlimatium (sp) and said that or me... He chose that over me. I stopped all romance. Just recently he came clean with a problem. I have slowly started back to my ways in the bedroom. But I guess slow at a pace Im comfortable with is enough in that area... I rather he tell his problem then me saying anymore on that one. And Im sure he has or will sooner or later.

I plan and try that on my days off we do something like movies or dinner or just 'cuddling' I would love that very much. Just recently I found someone who can watch the kids for us so we can go out and be just him and I. I dont knwo if that give you more of an insight or not...

I'm confused...


as far as you know, is your H into porn?

Pep

Wow, Prettyface,

You make it very hard to offer advice to, because somehow the information is always lacking a very details.

So let's start this over just a bit. I notice that there are many children involved in this marriage. How and when did they come into the presence of the marriage? What is the status with the child of your affair, ie where is he/she, who takes care of that child, and if it is not you and your H full time, who is it?

I would also say to you, that given your H's revelation (and you are right and he admits it, it was to hurt you) do you think your marriage has been on a good track for the past 8 years?

I know you say you have been honest with him, and that is commendable. What else have you done to show you value him? I don't mean just sex. Further, do you both agree that what you have done has shown him you respect him, value him, and really want him for an H?

Let's leave out his lying for just a moment, because frankly it is HIS issue. I know it hurt you and is hurting you, but let's leave this out for a bit, because as a previous poster just stated there seems to be sooo much more to this story than is stated so far.

While, this is a site put together by Dr. Harley and his children, I will quote Dr. Phil "you cannot fix what you don't acknowledge." So my questions are really directed toward getting you to acknowledge what YOU feel is wrong with this marriage in addition to what your H just did.

If it is of interest you, I have some thoughts on the oral sex issue, but I have no intention of trying to get you to do something you don't want to do.

Frankly, compared to affairs, children born of affairs, and the damage a bad marriage can do, I think oral sex is a very small issue from BOTH of your perspectives.

So, fill us in on your view of your marriage, and where it was failing before your A, and how it has been since your A and your H's A.

I look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

Maybe its giving a little too much detail but here goes.


For several years my FWW complained about my porn addition and I just blew her off like it was her problem. But it was *my* problem. She eventually took a see no evil/hear no evil approach except for when i left the computer unlocked. Intimacy also took a hike as the W detached herself. Then about four and a half months ago thanks to other W's posting the same valid complaints my W had, I couldn't take it anymore and told my wife what I was up to. I showed her everything I was doing, deleted everything I had, disposed of disks and tape backups. I gave her my passwords to all email accounts and my laptop.

Now that the issue is out in the open, I feel like I am being petty about the the OS. But its not really the act, but the feeling that your spouse would do anything to please you that wasn't dangerous,illegal or painful.

I was mad because it was never a problem before, and she never indicated she didn't like doing it for me. I thought maybe OM had done something to traumatize her or forced her to do it. She told me that she did it to get what she wanted and she won't do it anymore.

I've spent the last 4.5 months making as many LB deposits I could ..

baths with candles
Roses or carnations
back and neck rubs without asking
foot fubs without asking
Shave legs, maybe other things
soft music with candles in the bedroom
Paint toenails
I give her money for clothes with the stipulation she spend it on herself and not the kids
I do give her OS, to make her feel good( not sure )
When she says she is going to clean the house tommorow, I clean the house at night to suprise her.
She gets highlights, nails done, eyebrow waxes and anything else I can think of to spoil her.
I make her go out and unwind when shes had a stressful day watching the kids
I've done my best to tell her how pretty she is and complimenting her whenever I could
I've done my best to give little touches on the shoulder or back without groping
I've stopped being clingy
I've done my best to run the house and work fulltime and overtime and take care of the kids.

Most of these things I've done, I've been very careful to show her that SF WAS NOT expected after I did them. I wanted her to see that she did not have to be afraid of a hidden agenda when I was doing them for her.

I didn't get to pick the MC that we are seeing next week, I don't know if she/he is pro-marriage, but I will finding a new MC if I sense a attempt to start a amicable divorce or LSA.

I strongly suspected porn was part of this story

thanks for being honest

porn can be a devilish thorn in your side

how are you protecting yourself from it?

Pep

indentified my triggers

avoided websites with provocative ads
leaving the internet search history alone
enabled yahoos search safe option
call her at work when I get the urge to look at it (not sure if this pisses her off)
or i call friends or family on the phone
keeping busy with housework
leave the house
read here on MB

I've also told her to look at my computer whenever she wants because as a addict i don't deserve privacy right now
and I shouldn't be trusted until she feels comfortable, she has access to my computer

DramaFWH,

I rarely post but I wanted to tell you that I strongly suspected porn addiction when I first started reading your thread.

I read this thread after yours and then I would have bet real dollars in large amounts that there was addiction to porn at the root.

I respect your honesty when asked about it.

One of your W's previous posts said something to the effect that she gave you a choice between "something" and her and you chose the "something". That is the equivalent of choosing between your OW or your BW. You do have a BW--your OW's name is/was porn.

What you posted early in your thread about what you did/said to your BW that hurt her terribly was, imho, demanding that she give you your "fix". Imho, you were not seeing her as a live person at the time--you were seeing her as live porn. Women can feel that, DramaFWH, and I believe that it is probably the real cause of the lack of OS.

NC with porn
Deal with the addiction issues
Fix your relationship

and then....and NOT BEFORE then....

Don't be surprised if OS is not an issue for either one of you at all.

Ok, H and I got engaged early of 96. We had DS #1 shortly after our wedding. During our 2nd Anniversary is when I had my A.

My A started out as a coworker at work. He asked for rides home and I took him. Very plytonic at the time. Then the hanging out. I would ask H if he would like to go out with me. I had someone to watch DS#1. He would tell me no go out with your friends. He would stay home and work on his computer things. So I went out with friends and the OM was part of the group. We started to show interest in each other. To the point I would just go out very late early into the mornings to talk with him. A few weeks later H took DS#1 and left for 2 wks. I was upset for many reasons
1. He took our child and left the house instead of talking to me. * I was blind, he tried to talk to me I didnt listen and kept saying nothing is wrong between me and OM talking etc...*
2. I was upset with myself.
That yr a major flood hit the house we were living in and ruined most of it. I packed the house up and moved out. I moved in with OM. For 3 months H and I were seperated. He returned a week later after taking off to a empty ruined home. In those 3 months we tried to be civil alot of crying and fighting. I found out I was pg with OC. I then lost my job and was loosing everything. I had to beg my SIL to get ahold of H to get my DS#1. I wasnt expecting that H would tell me to get in and for us to start talking at this point. During the seperation I told him I wanted a Divorce he wasnt expecting to help me get out of the hole I dug myself into. To my surprise my MIL paid for a U-hal and we got what we could from the apartment surprising OM that I was leaving. OM didnt see it coming. I moved into my moms. And fought most of the OC pg to get back with H. H cant remember when he and the OW did there thing. I swear its when H and I first got back together sexually he says it was before I moved from my apartment. Eitehr way he said he is wrong for having OW and lied so much to himself that he even made himself believe it was a lie.
Anyways, OC came in 99. H and I picked the family out. We gave her up at birth. I say we cause he helped me with meds, he took me to the drs when I needed too. the OM wanted me to abort the child. I couldnt do that regardless how the OC came into the picture. Since we got back in 99 We have two more child they are H and I and no one elses...

As I write to you guys about all this. I felt two days ago everything was fine in the marriage I mean he wasnt complaining other then I didnt givee enough compliments to him about the way he looks. I didnt do the romance thing anymore... I dont give head anymore... I think the giving head has been an issue for atleast most of the 8 yrs. I have before 2 days ago and ever since we got back together 8 yrs ago told him I love him daily. I think when I gave him the choice between me or the porn I was very affectinate matter of fact I was the one complaining about the lack of things then. When he picked the porn over me I stopped. I stepped back and turned to my time into the kids. What I didnt realize is that I stopped even hugging or deep kissing him. Not till recently. I distanced myself that much because of his addiction. I never gave up the love making only cause I think that was one way to hold onto him maybe.. And well yeah my needs too I guess.

When H and I got back together in 99 he told me that him and OW did something that she gave great Head. Between all the fights we had I would be childish and throw the OW in his face alot... Saying well if she gave it so good then go to her... He retracted the OW.. I dropped it all... I didnt knwo 8yrs down the line it was going to be the truth...

Since my A we had a rough start.. Took a few months maybe yrs for H to finally tell me he forgave me. I love him. I love the fact he takes care of the kids, that he accepts and loves me for me... that he helps so much more around the house. .. I love the way he makes love with me. I love it when his hair is greyer then mine I love the affection he gave me a week ago.. I love the way he holds me... To hear him say he loves me..

And right now I hurt. I didnt do anything for him to hurt me like this now in time... Why couldnt he have been clean honest and work thru it 8 yrs ago> Why now> All over the fact he wanted to hurt me... He wanted to hurt me cause I dont give head anymore... The fact I work at night and hes lonely... The fact that we dont spend time together one on one with no kids around...

not exactly

he's insecure about his manhood/loveability/desirability/his ability to pleasure you

as men obsessed with porn are (insecure)

porn never turns him down (insecure)

porn keeps men sexually immature

the longer he goes without it
the better your intimacy will get

Pep

so, he HURT you because his insecurity became very high .... not because you did not give head

if you leave it at "if I give head we'll be OK" .... it becomes a monster of a different color ... sexual blackmail

instead of sexual lovemaking and intimacy

Pep

When he admitted to me he had an addiction I was bothered but for some odd reason I wasnt to bothered as I thought I would be. I was relieved he came clean... H even asked if I would help get rid of it.. I did.. I told him a few weeks into it how proud I was of him.. I even started do some things I stopped doing...I think I have irritated him casue I am not progressing as fast as he would like for me too .. I havent started the candles music or anything yet.. Just more of what he likes in bed...

I forgot he did regress once... Just this past weekend. I found it yesterday morning when I came home on his laptop and when he woke up I didnt hesitate to tell him I see what he was up too. Of coarse H is trying to clarify the fact he started to dl it but never finished, got some of the .BBT files but never turned on the program to get the rest. He stressed that to me..But its the act of even thinking of it.. Oh my head hurts today.
When can i eat once again with out getting the sick feeling> And when will sleep come... err this is bothersome no doubt... Well off to read for a bit and do some cleaning this place has gone to the S$#% house these past few days...

I have the highest respect for you and your husband for your choice to let someone else raise your daughter. I know that had to be an extremly hard decision, one that not enough people make. You took a horrible situation and turned it into a great blessing.

So I have high hopes for the two of you and your marriage. I'm so glad you found us.

This is not going to get fixed quickly, but I promise you that it can be fixed in time, and your marriage can thrive.

Working on opposite schedules is a killer for a marriage. As your children grow, I hope you can change that.