Thats one of the problems,I am bettera man,BS evensays I have really changed,she can see it in me.But now I'm a stranger to her,not the man she M. She says she now has been living with a stranger,she wouldn.t ever do that and isn,t going to.

Gil

"better man" is not a statue

more a work in progress

you are not dead
you are not done

I understand, I haven't quit on that.

when my H first became SOBER

I coud not stand him

he was a bigger pain in the [censored] than when he was a drunk

because he was aggitated
he was emotional
he was raw
he was UN-medicated to the point of REALITY

the conflict INCREASED
when he was finally "there" as a man and not as a drunk

some of the same applies

keep going

the stranger was "the person" who did this to her.....not the man who will right it!

"I am willing to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to make this right"

CALL Harley's ... talk to Steve.

You can become happily married.

This stuff works.

Quit flailing around .... get a PLAN together with Steve H

Gill I was a WS too and felt a lot of the fear and remorse that most FWS do.

I think if you actually get onto the Harleys as has been suggested it will help a LOT, especially as you doing it shows how determined you are to do whatever to keep the M.

Its obvious that your W distrusts your verbal responses and feels you avoid the hard bits. I know I did that as well but my IC suggested that my H ask the questions in writing and I reply in writing and either read it to him or let him read it and go away to think if he wanted more etc.

It allowed me to 'impersonalise' the responses in a way, to take some of MY emotions away from what he needed to know. I realise you did this earlier on but perhaps its time to return to it. You don't need to write a story, just dot points addressing those things which are so important to your wife and to which she feels you are avoiding. I do feel she wants to forgive but distrusts what you say right now.

BUT BE HONEST I can tell you NOTHING you tell her now will be worse than the unknown or the thought she has that you are avoiding. It really is like breaking your arm a second time so it can heal correctly. YES it will hurt, both of you, but tell her, take your time (but not 'weeks') and give her what she wants, not what you think is best for her!

If you are not sure what you are being asked then clarify before resonding, but do that quickly.

I do think you should go to the Harleys though ASAP as well.

with care

AW

did'ja call

huh huh did'ja?

make the call
mAKE THE CALL
MAKE THE CALL
make the call
MAKE THE CALL
[color:"red"] MAKE THE CALL [/color]
[color:"blue"]MAKE THE CALL [/color]

HUH?

DID'JA MAKE THE CALL????

Thanks pep and aussies wife.

I am willing & want this to work. We had Jennifer for a MC for a while til BS thought it wasn't helping and quit.I have talked to her a couple of times since,once to ask her to help me pick out an IC,she never mentioned Steve. and once to check up on us to see how we are doing,she calls me about once a month or so. I'll call Steve tommorrow since I did not read my thread til 945 pm.If he'll take me on I'll gladly start. Do you think Jen could help me get on steve's agenda ?
Either way I'll call tommorrow.


Yesterdsay on the hr. drive to and from a shopping outing, BS didn't talk about the A until we got 15 miles from home on the way back.She asked a Question and I answered at least I thoughtI did then she asked again I answered again then she asked the Q a bit diffently then I answered.That was the only Q she asked.

We got home she gardened and I mowed til dark. I got in and she was playing solitaire on this machine. she was frustrated cuz we hadn't talked I said lets start now there there's not enough time. (Iget that answer alot) but she'll play this for 2 hrs before comming to bed.Even now she told me to read and answer my thread,now 5 min. later her comment is I thought we were going to talk. She was playing this thing at least 30 to 45 min. now it's my turn and she's frustrated with me.I'll try to repost tommorrow ,so I can go and try to unfrustrate her and talk to her. More later.



Gilligan

well Gill

didya call .. didya????????

didya call .. didya????????
didya call .. didya????????
didya call .. didya????????
didya call .. didya????????
didya call .. didya????????

didya????????
didya????????
didya????????
didya????????

My Mum calls it positive nagging <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Gill,

From my point of view, which I have said before, you and your wife have some communication issues.

I read your thread and her thread and see the same situation discribed but in really different ways. Some of which could probably be corrected with better communication.

I will give you an example. She wants to talk you seem closed up so no talking. You want to talk she seems to be closed up so not talking. Both in the same night.

Both of you beleive the other doesn't want to talk. Then I read your thread and you wanted to but she seemed not to. Then I read her thread and she wanted to and you seemed not to.

This will kill your M. I agree about talking with Dr. H. BOTH OF YOU.

I can usually see through the bull and I think you are being honest here.

Now about the honesty. I think you should stop and process the question before attempting to answer. That way if your knee jerk reaction is to be half honest or deceptive you can get past that. When she asks just think be honest, be honest.

Then it helps if you repeat her question back to her to make sure you heard her correctly.

So for example.

BS- Did you ever go to a monster truck rally with her.
You- Be honest, be honest be honest, be honest.
You- So you want to know if I went to a monster truck rally with OW.
BS- Yes
You- Yes I did.

Now you are a smart person so lets go deeper and this could help you. If you were your BS would that be all you wanted to know? NO you wouldn't so lets see how you can help yourself here.

You- (better version) Yes I did. I took her sometime in May of 05 to the best of my recolection and then we went to the one in June of 06. Those are the two times we went and I paid for it.

BS- So you went in May you .......
You- Yes and I am so sorry I did that.

Your BS is one that ones to know everything. If she doesn't have to pry and you know in your heart you are doing all you can to be honest that is what you need to know.

On the other side your BS needs to decide if she wants to stay and try.

This will not work if she wants to hold this over you for the rest of your life.

It's sat evening and we were going to go away together,son and DIL brought there kids out they had a funeral sat morn. We watched them fri. nite they got back at 1 pm. on sat when they left I asked about going.SB said she needed to rest a while at 330 I asked again she said it was to late.

At 600 I asked about dinner and she said something lite. I made supper and we ate at 7pm at 730 we finished and I asked if we were going to talk. We got out our stuff and started to talk. We were going thru 15 steps to adultery . we only got to 6. I was asking questions at the same time trying to look at each step and figure out where I was then and telling BS where I thought I was.She brought out some good comments about things I really didn't see. She got frustrated with me and quit,saying we can't even get thru this so she is sure I'll have another A.

Call it in a fog or head up but,there are a lot of things I didn't see then, or maybe I didn't want to see. I want to learn at the same time understand where may head and heart was then, so it can't happen again. When ever we start BS gets frustrated with me,things just don't go the way she thinks they should be. BS feels I'm minimizing or down right lying. I feel like I was in a fog the whole time the EA and the PA was going on. There are so many things that I don't have the answers to that frustates me cuz I want to help BS and myself get thru this.When I think back to the type of SOB I was then It makes me sick to think that I was that way to my wife.

She is the best part of this M,without a doubt.How do I tell her things that I never thought about before or have answers to.

I don't know if she told you or not but my first session with Steve H is july 19 at 6am. I am excited and have great hopes that he can help me,thus helping us.

By the way remember the pool trouble I got myself into, Last sat. BS went and bought one the same one I had gotten earlyier. Now I'm trying to get it all set up for her and the GKids.Things aren't going so well withthat either, first I dug up the power line for our building and had to repair it, things aren't going much better now. It should be ready by first ice.more later.


Gilligan

2 more days

good job!

take notes

Pep I'm slow could you please explain your last post Thanks

It's 4am and I'm up.I TALKED TO BS last nite and things didn't go wellas usual at about 12 we both fell asleep. BS was up at least twice during then and now. She has an Important conference at work today and has to be ther early. Last nite she asked me if I held OW's hand I told her yes and explained when I did cuz W asked me to. 2 min. later she asked me again I gave her the same answer, not in exactly the same words,her comment was the story is changing again. I did say the same thing.

Another comment she has made to me is if your not going to tell me the truth about what happened then don't waste my time talking to me.

The last time I posted BS came in to the room and said its like old times you in here and me somewhere else. It started to be a long post,she knew what I was doing and left the room so I deleted my post and made about a 2 sentence post.

I have an appt with Steve H this morning at 7. I hope he has some magic he can give me cuz I don't know what to do from here. I have a habit of scooting to her side of the bed and putting my arm around her at nite,well that doesn't happen anymore she gets up and goes to my side of the bed and faces away with her arms folded very close to my edge. I am seeing she really doesn't want anything to do with me.

She is going to get a cut and a perm tonite I asked if I could come up and there. her first comment was I don't want you to see me in curlers, when I said you wanted me to give you a perm I would have seen you in them then she says what don't you trust me?

She told me to tell Steve that her only EN is honesty. I really am at a loss I just don't know what to do. I have to go now and wake BS and give her her wake up pills more later.
P.S she also asked me again last nite if I was still seeing the OW(WRONG).


Gilligan

Gil,

What I hear in your posts is that you still believe in blame, not ownership.

I get that you want to be right more than married.

And I'm getting this because that's the way I was. I made myself into a victim through blame and rightness.

It was a crazy-making process.

I hope you'll share your session with Steve.

Would you consider pondering the difference between blame and ownership and share your thoughts?

LA

I had my 1st session with Steve and I thought it went ok. The next one he wants to talk to BS she's not to keen on that says it won't help and is just a waste of time. I told her to at least do the 1 session and see what happens. That is Wed. morn. Because of the way she is taking this I'm not holding my breath. Will keep you updated.

LA I do own what I did BS even agrees with that, It's just not easy to take.

gilligan....your doing fine. keep at it.

have you made it through the timeline yet?

Nikko, no she wants nothing to do with it.

i swear i wanna shake both of you!!!!

gonna be busy for a bit...i have a houseful of raging 12 yr old boys.....and i need to cool off before i answer you and your wife.....cause you both aint gonna like my tone! lol

be back later....