Need advice... WH wants son again tonight. He had him all weekend. I'd like him home because school starts in morning after being on vacation all week.
Should I of let him go??? He was pretty upset with me.
Just becuase I'm trying to Plan A?
I think big LB.

Still

Orchid,

It's so hard not to share feelings with him. He's the one I have been sharing feelings with almost all my life. This is one of the hardest things to get through my head... that he doesn't care.

Another night of being up .... although right now I know I won't call him....still have no voice. God's way of stopping me I guess.

SL,
I guess what I will do with my Plan B letter is possibly show my attorney. I think he may feel that if the case goes in front of a judge it will appear that this isn't good for the children if thier mother won't talk to the father. We had to go to a program called Kids First about co-parenting with your X. Some of the things said I didn't agree with 100%. My WH just went last week and he said at times it made me so angry at you because I was doing things that they specifically tell you not to do... according to him.
The people in the program didn't agree with me that I can't force my daughter to see her father. Didn't understand that I'm not prevanting her... she is and was angry at her dad. She chooses not to go see him where he is living. They felt I should of told her she HAS to go. Maybe I'm wrong?

Going back to bed.. maybe I can get another hours sleep before I need to get up for work. I wish there was a warm body there.

I guess I'm using this for my journaling.

Still

Orchid: Your decision is for your son's benefit. Tell me again whose benefit does the WS have in mind with his decision?

No LBs when it comes to your kids....you take your stand and do what is best for the children, even if it causes KIA (kick in _ _ _).




Orchid: Hard not to share with your real H but this WS creature should make you want to puke and run. Learn to tell when he is being a WS vs your H. Treat each separately. If you are not sure ask him. I did that to my then WS. When he came to our home, I would stop him at the door and ask him which one he was. He had to learn to check his WS attitude at the curb..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Took a while but he eventually learned. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: You need your rest. You can type out your feelings right here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Tell the court, etc....that your daughter has been quite vocal about her distain for the WS' place of residence. Let them know that if they require force, it will hurt your child and you may have to file charges against bad advice. You are NOT wrong. Stick with your motherly instincts.


Orchid: Glad u r getting rest. Taking anything for that lost voice? Steam, tea and honey?

Keep journaling. I did. Shocking to go back and read what I went through. You will be amazzed also. Now go create some shock journaling. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It's very therapeutic.

L.

Orchid,

My son doesn't mind going to his place.. but he was there all weekend. My WH wants him 50 % of the time. As of yet I don't think he has brought MOW around him. I guess I just hate the back and forth. It doesn't seem to bother my son. It is somthing we will have to settle. He is more interested in having all the time he can with DS. Which is good... as long as MOW isn't around I don't mind.

I'm still trying to gather my plan together... would still love your input. I can be a slow learner at times.

For my voice just trying to rest it and throat lozengers.

Still

Today I'm really feeling defeated. Things are moving so fat in the direction of divorce. A divorce I do not want. Why the he!! did I intiate this.

Last night saw WH at HS hockey game ( we ahve box seats). He was already there when I arrived. Went to sit with him and was making small talk about game , work etc. He looked at me and said can you move over some. I was sitting int he seat next to him. I asked him did he want me to go elsewhere. He told me we aren't a couple anymore and are getting divorced so stop trying to be one. That he was still angry about mediation. Ouch
I told him okay the message is loud and clear and left our box and went with our friends. He sat in our box all by himself while I was pretending to have a ball with our friends. My friends told me they think he's having a hard time with the fact that I'm not sitting home moping. (which basically I feel like I am doing) He never came over to talk to our friends and they didn't talk to him.
When I was leaving the parking lot he called me on my cell... Still I want to apoligise I was very rude to you. I shouldn't have said what I said. I'm just having a hard time being with you as if nothing is going on. I can't explain it it just hard to explain. I told him I'm listening.. (something he would say I had a hard time doing). He then changed the subject.. told him could I call him later because it was hard talking on cell and manuvering thru parking lot.
Never did get the chance to call him helped DS with homework and sat for a minute and I was out until 2am. Still having trouble staying asleep.
When we talked this morning I told him sorry I didn't call because I really wanted to try to understand about last night. We agreed that we would talk later,
Just got off the phone with my attorney... I feel so hopeless. His attorney is pushing this to get it over ASAP. I told my attorney to keep dragging it. It looks like we have a hearing in front of a judge which looks like the end of April. (my luck it will on my birthday). Then he said it usually takes about a month for the decision. So it looks like I'm going to be divorced sometime in May or June, unless I can convince him to hold off on this.
I'll keep plan A for anohter 2 weeks.. things are planned that it would be to difficault to plan B through.
My stomach is just tied up in a knot. Why do I feel like I'm getting mixed messages from him. Why do at times he makes me feel like he's himself then in the next second he changes. Can any FWS out there clue me in.
How long will it take for him to wake up? I know I wasn't the perfect wife. Why isn't our families welfare important to him? He's willing to throw away everything we worked so hard for. I just can't understand this. When you were WS did you ever think about us and wonder what the he!! am I doing?
Any one out there?

Still

Hi, Still...I don't have any answers for you but I wanted to say that it appears that we are both having to face reality right now?

I also feel hopeless...so you are not alone...I'm right here with you...we can do this...whatever it take, and no matter how hard it is we will get through this...all the more stronger on the other side...

I'm trying to move to acceptance and face the facts that are before me...tough, huh?

It's the toughest thing I have ever had to do. This hurts more than any pain I had in giving birth to my 3 children. I just feel so strongly that we can make it, the big IF is will he be willing to try.

I'm going to ask him if he would be willing to talk to S.H. What will it hurt to listen to what he had to say. I'll put it on my credit card. This would be alot chepaer than divorce. If this gives us a chance for us to be happy together... he definately doesn't look happy now whenever I see him.

I will readily admit I don't like this reality. And i can be stubborn but I feel we are worth it. We both have alot of changes to continue to make.

Still

Any one out there?

Any advice from FWS?

Still

Just curious to know if I'm doing the right or wrong thing. I'm trying to Plan A be nice and smiley. Working on me It's difficult to cut back on relationship talk.... because I feeling very overwhelmed with everything.
What I do say is that I feel we are making a mistake, that we could make this work. I believe in him. We miss him and we would love to have him home with us. And that I don't want this divorce. It's not that I always bring it up. I just wait for quiet times.
When your BS talked to you did a any of it sink in. Like at night when you were alone. My Wh isn't living with MOW. She has small children so they see each other at work and probably once or twice a week. So he does have a lot of free time on his hands alone in a camp on a lake. Not much to do because it's winter. He has to be out in May. He mentions he feels lonely at times. Is he just feeding me BS?
I thought I was ready to give up but I'm not. I am going to call SH and set up an appt and see if WH will talk to him. Does anyone think that's a good idea?
I'm beginning to feel alone even on here now.
Anybody out there?

Still

silent

Jennifer really stressed to me the importance of going into plan B BEFORE a D so that my H could experience what it would be like to really BE D.

Still -
I haven't had much time to post lately! Sorry!

Hunny, you don't need to talk to him, or tell him all those things. he KNOWS this all ready! You have told him you love him, you don't want the D, you want him to come home. He has heard it all. He knows how you feel. But in his current state of mind this stuff goes in one ear and out the other. In fact - I would bet that the reason he is pushing his attorney to hurry up and finalize the D is becuase in his fogged out brain, he thinks that if only the D were final, you would not try to talk to him about your M anymore.

I know that is harsh. it sucks! But in his mind, the only reason why he feels guilty, is because he is still married to you while he is seeing OW. In his fog, he thinks that "if only" the D were final, then everyone could be happy again, everything would be fine, no one would be mad at him anymore. I can tell you that it is not true. The D will not change things for him. he will still be a WH.

I hear your posts about how you want to talk to him becuase he is the only one you have to talk to, that you have been together for so long. the harsh reality here is that if the D goes through, then he will no longer be available to you. You occasioanlly get weak, and call him, and cry on his shoulder. But after a D, you would need someone else to call! so please, please, find someone else to call now! We all need someone to call. I had a sister-in-law (now she is my former sister-in-law) who I could call at a moments notice to just cry, scream, vent, and then move on. You need someone like this. Your WH is NOT the person to call for support.

You need to keep making your baby steps forward to form a healing world for yourself. Gather your support team. Have nice candles, soothing teas, calming music, anything you can think of to help you in the hard times. Becuase the hard times will last for awhile still. Divorce or no divorce - you still have some rocky times ahead and you need to find ways to cope.

Surround yourself with beauty. With things that make you smile.

If your WH comes back - recovery will be the hardest thing you ever went through - you will need support!

if the D goes through - you will be going through some tough times - you need support!

So please, start building your support.

Journal here - that is great. Lean on friends and family. Take a class, join a support group.

I love your post about sitting with friends at the game! Good for you! Find ways to have fun.

About YS - it is ok to tell WH that you are not interested in 50/50 - WH can have him every other weekend, plus 1 night a week.
Come up with a schedule, and stick to it. That is the way it would be after a D - you will have everything in writing, and you will stick to it. Let WH see right now what to expect later.

You really are doing well. You sound much better today then you did a month ago!!!

Falling apart here right now. The venom that was thrown at me tonight. The hatred that came over the phone lines. I think it's time for me jsut to give up. He absolutely hates me. He screamed at me how I won... how his daughter hates him just like I wanted.
I told him I don't want our DD to hate him. That she still feels very hurt. He showed up late at her swim banquet. And kind sat near the door. Didn't come over to where I was sitting or DD. I mentioned to DD to go say hi to dad and she said why is he leaving. He came over at the end and she blew him off. He stormed out. Who's the adult here.
Then he calls talks to DS and asks to talk to me and lays into me. About I win and he gives up... how I did a good job of making her hate him. I asked why are you mad at me. I just mad and hurt he said. I told him so isn't she. What did I do.... his famous words. I told him he needed to start taking responsibility for his actions, He blew up at that and said am I going to throw that in his face still that's in the past. Funny we're still living it.
I told him come home and we can work on this... he screamed at me nothing has changed. I told him you think this is my fault... yes he said because if the girls got mad at me he would lay into them and I'm not facilitating thier relationship. I told him that some day M you're going to have to look deep within yourself and come to terms with your responsibility in this. Not everything is my fault.
He told me "give me some space"... so I told him okay and hung up. Why do I continually let him hurt me. He makes me feel so awful.
It hurts so bad...

Still

i understand hurt....i really do

i know my "children" are just two dogs, but i understand the "venom"

when he came to get one of the boys to take him for a visit, he would leave me notes about how sad the other one looked as he drove away and how it broke his heart everytime. How i will need to give the one left behind extra attention so that he isn't lonely

(Hello! WHO is giving me estra attention so that I'm not lonely? How about the sad look on my face and the tears that i cried as you drove away each time?)

then when he brought the dog back, he would leave me notes and call me crying saying how hard it was for him....how I was making him go for weeks with NO dog when i always had at least ONE. that i didn't have to know what it was like not to have one of them in my life.

(HELLO! you're talking to the woman who knows what it's like to HAVE NO ONE BUT those dogs because he chose to leave me!)

when i finally decided that i couldn't separate the boys because they belonged together, i had been raising them alone for over a year and had realized that I COULD handle it and because THEY were now the only "family" that i had close by

he tried everything to guilt me, shame me, and harass me into changing my mind.

he said in one e-mail that he shouldhave known i never was really considering giving him one of the boys and that he woshed he had known that before he "spent all of his time pouring his heart out to them" (ummmm isn't that what OW is there for?)

he left me e-mails where he was sobbing, then screaming, then shouting again

he even sent me an e-mail telling me that if I didn't give him one of the boys, he would be forced to get his own dog and would then bond with the new dog and never be able to "takeone of the boys when I get sick and tired of them"

he sent me the link to the website for the local animal shelter in his area with a sob story about how sick and sad those animals were and that he was going to get stuck with an animal no-one else wanted because I was so selfish

he even had the nerve to tell me that he listed me as a reference on the adoption papers!

i don't think he was ever serious, just trying to get what he wanted

hurting,

he was so cruel and hateful

and he really believed it was ALL MY FAULT

they BELIEVE that WE are the reasons they are hurting

they honestly can't see or refuse to see, that this is all a result of the choices THEY made

because they believe WE forced them to make these choices because we weren't making them happy

it's awful

WE are the enemy in their eyes

the people who love them most, have been the most committed to them and are willing to forgive them

sometimes i wonder if I will ever forget some of the things my H said to me that were so painful:


-when he was screaming at me so badly and saying the ugliest things and using such foul language, i was curled up in a ball, on the floor, sobbing

he screamed at me in a voice that i think came from the depths of h*ll "You shut the [censored] up and listen to me when i am talking"

-when he wanted to put the house up for sale just 3 months after he left, i said "but i can't move back near my family because the new school year is starting soon and it's too late to get a job there. Where will I live?"

he gave a laugh and said " i really don't care. That's not my problem anymore"

and.....the last phone call that he made to me before all contact between us ended...maybe the last contact i'll ever have with him

he said "you're like a cancer that is slowly eating away at me"

these words came from the man who i always swore was so gentle....he could hold a bubble in his hand and it wouldn't break

the man who always held ME in his arms when I felt like my heart was going to break

was now the man who was breaking it into a million pieces

i feel like you do

WHY? WHY? WHY?

what did we do to them to ever deserve this?

but hurting

that's why Jennifer recommended plan B to me even though in my heart i wanted to stay in plan A

because he was so abusive and cruel


one thing that i learned from posters here AND from Jennifer Harley

as bad as my H is and you H is

they are just like other WS

Hi, Still...

I'm sorry I have read your post and this is the second time that I try to find the words to say...to inspire you that this may be the best thing for you...

DO you really ask yourself...was it your will or God's will that you were seeing? I'm not trying to be creal or mean, no 2X4 here...I ask b/c I wasn't being honest with myself about my sitch...I only thought I was...I had to face reality...

I will pray that for your pain and suffering...you are no alone...you will never be ALONE...

I would be honored if you would practice something for me...should you have to talk to WH again...I recommend that you picture a glass wall b/t the two of you...whatever is said on his side of that wall bounces off of it...this is about him and his choice, not you...his words are his words and can not hurt you unless you allow them to break that glass...

I did the same thing last night...I took everything he said personal...owning his words as mine...I slipped...

I'm so sorry H came home to get his truck and I had to shut everything down...

I forgot what I was saying and where I was going with it...My concentration level is so short right now...

Up again..... slept for a couple of hours. Actualy cried myself to sleep. I called him real quick to tell him Sorry he felt hurt tonight. He said I appreciate it. I feel I don't deserve the way I'm being treated.. I work all the time to put food on the table and I get treated like this. No apology to me about anything or sorry your hurting. It's all about him.
What I would of loved to have said to him besides goodnight... you know honey WE also don't deserve how we are being treated. WE didn't deserve to be walked out on... this past summer we didn't deserve to have you gone all the time... and when you were with us angry and short tempered. Yes you may feel that everything is in the PAST but it isn't. WE yes WE your wife and children are living this abandonment. Yes you come around and make your 5 minute phone calls when it is convenient for you. But hey you don't deserve for your DD to be angry that this is the life she has been handed because of choices YOU made. After all she's the kid and YOUR the "adult".

Eve, what you were being put through and what I recieved tonight is emotional and verbal abuse. And we still love them.

They have beaten us down with words and made us feel like nothing... and we apologise to them !!!. Slowly over years our self esteem was eaten away. We deserve how they treat us.... we made them mad... it's our fault. They have us actually beleiving this.

No my H never hit me... never actually said your Stupid... I never had bruises or broken bones. No our wounds cannot be seen by anyone. His actions and tone of voice told me I was stupid. His actions and tone of voice left rips in my heart. But it's all my fault... I shouldn't expect words of love or comfort.

Was he always like this no. When did he begin to change? Lot's of times he was my cushion. He would comfort me, hold me. But it has been a long time.

Why do I want him back in my life home with me? Do I actually see the man I fell in love with in him still?

Rind,
What you said I don't take as a slam. Those words are something I have been thinking also. Maybe it was me and not God showing me signs. I wanted to beleive it so bad... was I just seeing and hearing what I wanted? How do we know?

The idea about envisioning a glass wall between us is great. I'll try that... I'll envision bullet proof glass between us. His words at times can be bullets.

I hope this post doesn't make it sound like I had no faults... believe me I do. Plenty. I'm working on those things. I'll also could say things that bite. Now I hold those words inside of me... let them out here.

Eve, Rind we are good loving women who deserve to be loved. We are not perfect we have our moments. We deserve to be loved and it doesn't appear to be our husbands.

Still

WOF,

Thank-you I'm trying to absorb all you've written. After my rant above. It's hard at times to distinguish between H and WH. The past couple of interactions it was definately WH.

What you say about thinking the D will make them feel better makes all kinds of sense. Sometimes I feel that my WH won't be like others. He is going to be happy once he's free from me. I go back and read your words of wisdom maybe I should adress you as WOW (womanofwisdom).

Just about every day I go back and read and try to absorb everything that people have written. My brain is just mush right now.

I have surrounded myself with great people. People who love me. But I keep allowing one in who used to be there and isn't anymore.

Every day I am making baby steps... baby steps into going into plan B. I'll be taking my life back.

Like lilsis I'm counting down the days... the date I have picked is March 11th or 12th. It's just there are to many events coming up to do it before that.

Tomorrow morning or should I say this morning...
I'm picking myself up... if I talk to my WH or see him I'll be confident and smiling on the outside. Plan A, Plan A plan A.

I need to take baby steps like you said because if my WH does become a FWS it is going to be hard work and I need to be healthy emotionally.

Still

Still,

When are you going to stop trying to help the WS? The WS doesn't like you and your family. Can you see that?

Now don't get mad. Your H loves your family but your H is currently being held captive by the WS.

When are you going to get furious that an alien is holding your H hostage? When are you going to demand he release your H?

Sitting at the game next to a WS is NOT helping your H. Going with your support group is. Helping your children take their stand against the WS is helping your H and attacking the WS.

It is ok to hate the WS because when you do, you show you are loving your real H.

Ponder over this.....

L.

Orchid,

I do hate my WH (at least at this moment) I just haven't shown that to him yet.
I'm still afraid that if I do there is no coming back.

I only sat with WH for 5 minutes at the game. I left after and sat with friends that we used to always go out with.
And you know what... that's when I saw a glimpse of H after I left because after the game he called and apoligised....

Having a light bulb moment here.... it was after I acted like I wasn't going to take him treating me like that.. aaahh

Orchid keep pounding at me about the man that looks like my H is an alien right now. I've got to keep telling myself that.

I think I get it now.... either that or I'm really sleeping and dreaming all this.

Still

hurting,

would you be willing to try to call the harley's radio show to get Bill Harley's advice on what you should do?

if you do call, i've heard him say that it is helpful for you to send and e-mail with a summary of your situation first

think about it.....professional MB help fast and free! I mentioned to Jennifer once that posters here were encouraging me to call in and get Bill's recommendations to see if a man's perspectives on my situation were the same as hers

she encouraged me to go ahead and call. I didn't but..... I thought you might want to think about it


in response to your post above:

your H words to you the past few days have been so hurtful. He has made huge withdrawls from your lovebank. that is why you are dwelling on so much of the pain, so many of the negatives and the reasons why NOT to want him back.

LB withdrawls AND the fear that the D may happen soon

that's so much for you to deal with

you know that what you want right now, is something that a WS can't and won't give

but the man that you loved

if he finds his way again.....out of the A

he WILL say those things to you, and he will be so sorry

for the things that he said and did to hurt you

That's what i hold on to when i start to think about the pain my H has caused me.

I really believe that you are at the point where plan B would protect you aginst him continuing to hurt you

i understand that your lawyer feels it would not look good in terms of supporting your DD but I wish there was a way to do this because i do beleive that it would be a powerful experience for your H to have NOW

i've seen pleantly of posts to support the power of plan B and i've commented many times on the speed in which it can turn a situation around

not in MY situation of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

i think i'm having some trouble holding on to those positive thoughts right now too.

i've spent some time this past week really thinking about the amount of blame that i've been feeling for the A and i think that i'm beginning to see that i have been blaming myself much more than i should have. This is causing me to recall some of the awful things that were said and done. It's making some withdrawls from my LB.

i am trying hard to push away those thoughts and remember the good ones instead because i still have hope the A will end (especially since my recent contacts with Jennifer)

i've really did put alot of effort into making big changes in myself and i did alot of begging for him to notice and give me another chance.

so at least for tonight, i'm not feeling like I'd get down on my knees and beg for another chance.....he'd have to be doing some begging himself

I feel kinda like that dog that kept getting kicked and kicked....and kept coming back in the hopes that maybe this time he would get petted instead......after so many kicks, he's not begging to be petted even though it still really the only thing he wants in the whole world...and it's going to take alot more effort for him to trust that he won't get kicked again

does that make any sense?

i hope my H soon realizes that when i promised him forever, i didn't mean i'd wait around forever professing my undying love for him while he forgot i exsisted and pretended to be married to someone else.....

the longer the A lasts, the more time i've got to work though all of the thoughts and feelings that I've had

i've come to believe that after all that he's done, my H "doesn't deserve to just be "given" another chance

because i wasn't the one who made these awful choices, HE DID so he's got lots of work to do too!

still i continue to wait and hope

that's all i can do hurting because i've used both of the plans so i've got nothing else right now

you still have some weapons at your disposal!