Cat,

Do you ever wonder what we did to make this happen to us? My parish priest did say that he will get his... and I may never know when it happens but it will. I told him I would want to know. He told me when it does I may not even care anymore and just feel PITY for him.

I hate waking yo with an anxiety attack... know HO was with him last night. Even 1/2 a Xanax couldn't take the edge off...well need to jump in shower and got to work.

Hope everyone has a great day.... check in tonight. I can read at work just not post.

Still

Still,

I ask myself that question alot. Not to have a pity party or anything, but I think I've been a pretty goood person. I never cheated on my H. I go to church regularl, pray everyday, help the less fortunate, etc. etc. WH I don't think, even believes in God, yet he gets what he wants and he seems to be happy with his decision.

Why when I try and live the good life and walk the straight line, do I get the crumbs?!

Sometimes I think I should have done everything wrong like WH. Maybe I'd have been happier.

HEY, this is not OUR fault...We DID NOT do anything to require punishment...we are not children!!

WE are having to suffer the consequences of our WS's actions...these are side effects...which unfortunately WE have to deal with...It's a shame YES, but how you handle the sitch depends on whether you are a victim or not...

As for the crumbs, we have to learn how to be not only aware of the sitch but gain a greater understanding of ourselves and whaat OUR boundaries are...

I for one, had no clue what a boundary was until I came here...saying no was not something I did...I allowed things yes, that's my fault, and I'm learning from it...but the future does NOT have to hold those past mistakes...that depends one me...

So, it's up to you...who are you, what do you want from yourself?

I have always thought that OP come in and out of our lives for a reason...we take in all that we can from them...learn what we need and leave the rest...then, they are gone...

That's what was good for us at that time...it's UP TO US...

And sure, It's okay to have a bad day...to sit on the pity pot for awhile...think of the should of's, would of's, could of's...but that's not living in the day...we can't change the past, just today, and pray that the choices we make today or good for us tomorrow...

I start to spiral with what if's...what if's are our tomorrows...now, sure I can know that I have an appt. on a certain day...but I can't focus on it...I'll make myself miserable in a heartbeat...

OK, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ...I'll get off my soapbox now...and let you guys take the time you need to heal...just my POV...

Hey Rind,

I know it was starting to feel like a pity party... once in awhile it's okay. Although lately I felt I have been there too long.

Just counting down the days till I give my PBL. Still worried about going against my attorney's advice... ****** I'm paying him mucho bucks...
I think he thinks it will look like I'm being uncooperative in the parenting aspect.

Hoping for a good weeekend... WH has DS this weekend so the HO is out of the picture at least for most of the weekend. That's what I can't wait to be able to do is not always think about them. Start thinking about me.

Tonight DD and are are having breadsticks from Pizza Hut for dinner. That doesn't count as pizza I hope because i gave that up for Lent.

Still

Just trying to figure out what I really want. Boy trying to get your head and heart in sync isn't easy. Just when you think you're there boom it's gone.

I have been really thinking about what I saw on someone elses thread... I think it was by Pep... about it not being noble trying to save a marriage that wasn't good prior to A. I wish I could find that again. That has really got me thinking. Am I just chasing a pipe dream of something that never really exsisted?

I know that my whole M wasn't bad, but it really wasn't great these last 5 years between affairs. Sure there were some good times but I don't think my H was really there. And I sensed that... I know I tried to fix it. Maybe I was looking at the wrong person. Right back at blaming me I guess. We both made mistakes... it would make me feel a little better if he would just admit some of his mistakes also. Maybe I'll never hear that.

I guess what I'm trying to get straight in my head is what actually am I trying to save. Maybe the letter I'm working on should just be a "I surrender" one. Go and be "happy". You win. The man I fell in love with is long gone.

I really think so much of the people on here that are so strong... and I want to be there so bad. I guess I need to make a decision and just stick with it. Give my hand to God and say you play for me I'm tired of playing this game.

Still

still

i KNOW that my h and i had a good marraige before my depression....which left my H vunerable for the A

that's why i haven't given up

i'm not looking through rose colored glasses to see only the good times. That's the reality of how it was.

just a gentle reminder to use not to look through fog covered glasses at your past with your H so that you see only the bad IF that's not the reality of how it was

Thanks Eve,

You don't know how much that means to me. I really do think my depression really messed things up. And it's probably messing up things now.

Are you going to be around later? I have to run to my IC session... maybe I should be going every day.

Still

i'll be online all day....working on my class paper

i also think my depression is what led to the A

but life before that WAS good and we WERE happy

even through the depression....we were still happy until things got so bad

and you know what?

2 years of h*ll with me while i was SICK with depression? well it ain't nothing compared to the now 5 years of h*ll he's put me through with things he CHOSE to do...

and i'm willing to forgive

the a$$ told his sisiter that he "can never forgive me for not being there for him when my depression got so bad the last few years"

guess what still....i don't want a man THAT selfish in my life

people GET sick.....and marraige means you are still there for them

i would be for him......look.....i still am

so if he does return....he'd better change his values back to where they were before he "got sick" because my "forever" is going to be with someone who has the same values that i do

I replied to that comment on Pep's thread.

I believe that my M was good, that H and I were happy. There were a number of events that we ignored or glossed over or didn't know how to handle that stacked up against us. We were both vulnerable, except I did not choose to cheat, but I did withdraw, and that can be pretty bad in itself.

I don't think my WH would have taken the time to pen me that letter, talking of getting greatness back in our M, if he also didn't believe that we were once happy. Withdrawal is a terrible thing, and some people can't see past the pain of today, and go back to the thing that is keeping them high.

I believe in the addiction analogy, and I TRULY, especially now, believe that one must hit BOTTOM, and be willing to get help on their own. My WH did not hit bottom.

Eve,

I do not want the man my H is right now either. The last 5 years have mostly been ****** for me also. Nothing compared to what I put him through... I never crossed the line and kissed or slept with another man. No matter what he put me through.

He also told me he couldn't forgive me.... now this one blows my mind because I made him give up softabll when we first got married. Pleeease,,we both worked every other weekend and I really didn't want to spend our weekends off together at softball fields. But that is unforgivable.

Although another reason was that I didn't always want to go visti his parents...that one I regret with all my heart. And have told him so. Nope can't forgive me.

I have forgiven him after his first A, and I'm working on forgiving him for this A. Why is it some people can forgive and others just hang on.


I'm ready to scream...DS just called and WH asked to talk to me... laid into me about Discover bill was due yesterday... now how is this my fault. I don't get the friggin bill. I told him that... well apparently I paid it on-line last month which I don't remember doing. Do remember paying Mobil on line though. Still kept saying that the bill comes to me it's in my name. Went and got the most recent bill.... it has both our names on it but the address is his. Did I get a friggin apology oh no. I can't remeber the last time I got copies of any bills from him. If I don't get it I have no way of knowing. Remeber you want me gone. Sheet and he's coming over after a hockey game he's going to see so we can pay it with tax refund check. I do not want to see him.

I can't even remember what I was talking about before.

Need to go settle my thoughts and prepare for one of my last battles before plan B.

I am really going to need you guys after that.

Still

Help...

It was horrible... I can barely type through the tears. Oh my God the hatred he has towards me.

Why do I want this man in my life.... why do I still love him and hate him. I LB all over the place. Said some things in anger and said see I let my walls down....why does he always make it me. Maybe it is me.

It got really ugly.

He told me he tried but that we just aren't good together. We need to lead our separate lifes.

He didn't even want me touching him... was trying to apologise for something that I said that was completely uncalled for.

I'm hurting so bad... I told him I get that he doesn't wnat me he told me no I don't think you do.

Still

What a day.... what a rollercoaster ride. Finally stopped crying...cried myself to sleep and had a nice nap.

MY IC told me she doesn't think this is going to work out. Agreed with the Harleys that at this point I need to get him out of my life for awhile. He's just tearing me down shread by shread. It makes her sad to see me like this. She thinks there is no hope until WH takes some repsonsibilty and I need to stop him from placing everything on me. She feels I am so emotionally battered that my self esteem is completely gone. That I can't change him and I need to come to the realization that it's most likely over.

That all the time I have seen her she didn't think I was asking for much... just to be loved. And now I'm afraid to move on because that's the only love I know. She told me that this is not love. She strongly recommends letting go.
She said the people that really need the help don't usually come in... it's the one's who really don't.
She still feels strongly that WH is narcicistic (sp) and passive aggressive.
She feels I need to be real careful about going through an intermediary because it'll look like I'm not willing to work with him on custody. That if there was negotiations not going on it would be okay but this just make him more viscous in the D proceedings.
She also agrees that we probably won't be friends but we still need to be corsial for the sake of the kids.

Then a little later my SIL calls. She's coming up tomorrow for my DD dinner dance. We chatted about that and I mentioned I had a rough morning. She told me why doesn't any of our friends talk to WH about this. I mentioned he doesn't want to hear what they have to say. They don't agree with what he is doing. She still felt that they shouldn't not talk to him... that what friends do. I tried to tell her her B brought this on himself...It hurt to say that... that i was tired of getting all the blame in this I didn't unzip his pants he did. Shouldn't have said that... I have a feeling that blood is definately thicker than water. I told her I love her brother very much and if I didn't all this wouldn't bother me that I would tell him to FU. Had to ahng up quickly because he was here.

That's when it all started... he apoligised about blaming me for cc bil but I'm just so tired of feeling like I'm being blmaed for everything. And told him so... about our DD bills etc. He still tried to justify I ask him to stop using the tone with me. He told me I'm just trying to talk to you. That's when i started to get angry and out came the thing about unzipping his pants. And it got bad from there. Told him I was sorry that was uncalled for and he tried to leave and I tried to stop him. Tried to get him to sit didn't want me near him... don't touch me leave me alone... finally he sat down and I said WH this iis hurting me so bad. Can you imagine how I feel knowing you are sleeping and holding someone else. Do you ever think of that.... every night I'm alon at night so lonely some nights I cry myself to sleep. I have no one to comfort me at night... you do. And that kills me.
I know you want nothing to do with me... he said apparently not because you keep trying. We are done... we are no good toghether. I still care about you... and I started to cry harder. I wanted a hug so bad... nothing.
I did ask him if he would talk to someone for 1 hour if I paid for it. He shook his head... may broach it one more time to tell him this will help me let go.

Just a very emotional day.... writing my letter tonight and will probably give it to him tomorrow or Monday.

Still

still

i'm sorry i wasn't here for you when you got back from your appointment

my hot tub sprung a leak and i've been dealing with it all day. I'm trying to get all of the water out in case we get another freeze

i'm so sorry that you are still getting hurt by your h

i'm concerned that until you take the step and go into plan B, he is going to think that he can have you whenever he wants you....and just like the concept in the book "love must be tough" "all he can think of is getting away from you....until you open the cage door and let him know he can leave if he wants to, he won't stop and wonder if he really does WANT to get away from you."

i think it is so very important that you do this before the D

and he's getting angrier everyday and fighting harder and harder to be "free"....i believe that the D may be his way of forcing that cage door open....

i think you've GOT to do this before the D is final so he will have time to wonder if this IS what he wants

Yes I do need to do this... he is trying to push me away... the harder i push. I know that it's the worst thing to do but I just can't help myself. Weak weak weak.

The letter is getting hand written tonight... don't think I will use intermedairy just ask to only commnicate via e-mail or TM. I have to think what would look best in court. I will not loose my kids over this. But contact will be minimal and if that is too much then I will use my friend. Maybe I better think about that some more.

In my letter I'm including Truehearts letter and the lyrics to Anyways by Martina McBride.

It's just so hard to let go.... you would think it would be easy with the way he is treating me.

Thanks Eve... I appreciate you being there for me. I'll have to be off for a couple of hours DD needs computer to made DVD for tomorrows performance.

Still

Still:
Explain again to me why not to use an intermediary? I don't see how it could reflect poorly on you in court. And are you even concerned about that? Do oyou think he would go for custody? Your kids are old enough to have a say. ???

If any judge were to read a PBL (assuming it's fairly typical in terms of content), I don't see how s/he could interpret as anything other than a wounded spouse protecting herself from further emotional damage caused by a spouse's adultery. IMO.

I would STRONGLY recommend using an intermediary...yesterday's events for me made that very clear. The intermediary's role is two-fold...to keep you DARK, AS WELL AS to shield you from further hurt. An intermediary filters out all the hurtful cr*p and allows you to respond in your own way, in your own time, and on your own terms. Not as an emotional reaction...but a well-thought out response.

Read my stuff from yesterday, and read Neak's thread yesterday on what an intermediary's role is.

((((Still))))

Sorry for the bad day. Definately time for you to go to Plan B. You know this. This man is NOT your H. You DO NOT want THIS man. Run, run away. Be dark, be Still.

LS

Here's a suggested approach that should satisfy any judge in the land:

Your therapist and Dr Harley have agreed you need a break from him. Have your therapist and lawyer work together on a No Contact Plan - have therapist certify that you are suffering symptoms similar to a woman who has been emotionally abused and that you need a break from your jailer. Therefore, THERE WILL BE AN INTERMEDIARY and THERE WILL BE NO CONTACT until such time as you are sufficiently healed from his abuse and his adultery that you can tolerate being in contact with him. The intermediary will protect his interests in custody issues while protecting you from having to deal with his selfish pigheadedness.

I cannot see where any judge would be bothered by this solution, as it creates a win for your husband in that he is deprived of nothing as far as who he wants to continue relationships with, while allowing you time to heal from the raw abuse of the situation.

Therapists and lawyers can make all the arrangements.

LilSis and Kayla,

The more I think of it the more I think you are right. My therapist would definately talk with my attorney. That is a great plan. I'm on it Monday. I'll read the letter to the attorney and have my IC talk with him.

The custody thing.... my kids are old enough. My DD doesn't want much contact at this point. And my DS loves his dad. What I was worried about there is 50/50 residency. I would like to have prinary residency. And 50/50 visitation. I do not want to keep my son from his dad. Like I said he is spending quality time with DS that he never really did before. After the divorce I'm worried about contact with ho. I really don't want my DS exposed to her and he will not agree to this.

I am so happy with this advice... I'm going out with the friend who agreed to help out tonight. I'll explain to her the issues and ways to handle it. I know she would be great because she was never really impresses with WH, she's only really known us since his first A. Although her H is good friends with WH.

I did talk to him just a few minuted ago and told him it hurt to see him... he said he would stop coming over. So this isn't going to affect him at all. I did ask if he missed me and he said he's been past that for a long time. Ouch
Every interaction hurts.

LilSis,
I look up to you and Silent and Eve with all this Plan B stuff. And you are even closer to my time line. With April being the dreaded month.

Still

still

another way to think of this

he isn't letting you do anything that would be considered plan A any more

even though most attempts to make love bank deposits in plan A during an A don't get through, when the fog clears, they might

but now, with all of the arguing, all that is happening is love bank withdrawls for BOTH of you

THEY get through

you have got to get into plan B fast.....for both of you

and for hopes of a possible future

about the intermediary

my opinion is HOWEVER you have to make this happen....do it

i really think your H needs to be scared that he pushed you too far.....and he might lose you

he has to face not having you AT ALL

to be able to see if that's really what he wants....

even e-mail or text messaging says.... "i'm still here"

NO CONTACT

i like the idea about getting the support of the harley's and your counselor to use an intermediary

it sounds like his sister might be a good choice (but i'll wait to hear what others think about this)

my thinking is:
-your H would be most comfortable going through her...not that any H is comfortable with the idea at all
-it would allow her to see what your H is really up to
-it would help to keep you from saying anything that you shouldn't in response to him

Still, you are getting some great advice, especially having your counselor work with your lawyer to do what is best for YOU, as well as settling things for the chidrens' sake.

It's funny, they so badly want us to be on the outskirts of their lives, UNTIL we decide to step away.

I, personally, have not had success finding an intermediary, so I'm going it alone, but I'm practiced at this, and will not respond to ANY email not directly about my son. WH was pretty good at being silent on his end during my Plan B, I guess you could say he 'respected' it (Plan B, not me). Meh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />