Airheart wrote:*******Well, she doesn't WANT me to set her free. She wants to work on this. If I go to her and say "I'm setting you free. Go find someone who will truly love you." That would sound SO MUCH like a cop out to her. Plus there is the matter of my son. Don't you think we both owe it to him to try to make things right?<BR>___________________________________________<P><BR>No, I think if you do not by now feel the feelings you should for your wife and you have never had those feelings then you need to take the time out in your life to figure out what you want....love comes from within there might be something deep down that causes you to make the decisions you do. You might need to take time out to love yourself before you search for love from anyone else. If you have unresolved feelings deep down and you do not love yourself then you will always run into this wall down the road you will never be able to really love someone else until you love yourself. Your son will do fine either way if he has two committed parents. But suppose your wife does find true love then that is much healthier for your son to see his mother cherished the way she should be. And what is he learning now (to bite the bullet and do what's right at the expense of all of the family) If you set any thing free....at first there is fear,hesitation,doubt but eventually it will work out. This is just my opinion, since I found out of my h betrayal I have read and studied a lot about why we as humans make the decisions that we make and treat people the way we treat them. What is in me that I excepted things in my marriage and did not pick up any warning signs (h affair was 2 years) At first I was so devastated that I felt I had lost my own identity but through searching and learning I have never felt closer to myself than I do now. How healthy can it be for anyone knowing that the other is "hangin' in there" just for the sake of a child. Don't let anyone hold you back from your true destiny. Lots of luck to you and your family. I do not think your lucky because you have someone accepting your feelings and you as is..like your wife is so willing to do, I think that's is weighing on you and you should pick yourself up and be true to those around you. I also have someone who does not ask me what I want but rather tells me that we really need to work on our marriage. He has yet to say "what do you want" I think he is avoiding that question! Instead he's pleading for us to make it work...and asking for forgiveness and one more chance. We are currently going to marriage counc. so we will see...but I refuse to work anything out just for our daughters sake it has to be for love!!! I'm worth that and so are YOU.<BR>

KWAS...<P>Well you do have alot of points in your argument. In general, I actually agree with you. But I think it's been too soon to tell whether we can work it out or not.<P>I suspect if I went to her and told her what you're saying, she'd just chalk it down to withdrawal symptoms. And yes, I am still in withdrawal. I can see both things as separate issues. I have withdrawal from OW, and I also have doubts about whether I'll ever love my wife. But, they're very obviously interweaved. So who knows how I'll feel once the OW is completely out of my system. Only time will tell. If I still feel this way after the OW is out of my head, then maybe I'll mention your argument to my wife (I still have a feeling she'll think I'm just copping out though).<P>You said you think that my son might turn out okay after divorce as long as both of us are dedicated parents, but I really don't want to take that chance. I'd rather try EVERYTHING possible before I throw in the towel. We just haven't gone far enough yet. Hey, I'm with you. I want it to be for love too!<P>By the way, I've never been plagued by feelings of low self-worth or anything like that. I rather like myself, in fact. There are some things I could fix, but all in all, I'm satisfied with myself as a person. I'm fully capable of loving someone.<P>--andy<P>

(hey, fun icons!)<P>Andy, it's 'wayyyyy too early to go your merry way, and I'm glad you acknowledged that. A few months isn't very long to put an affair behind you *and recover fully from it*. From your other posts, it sounds like your W is very committed to your relationship, and also is the kind of person who is *capable* of healing and moving on... and many aren't. (And you sound like a neat guy, which is why I'm going to give you a pre-emptive lecture, complete with finger-wagging! )<P>I've been where you are, and I know it's really hard to be there. The 'not knowing' is tough to deal with. But if it helps to hear from someone who finally got past that - it is possible! And it really sounds like to & your W have the raw materials to make it. Please don't blow the potential of your marriage using some lame claptrap like 'following your true destiny' as justification... that's the kind of thinking that got us into affairs to begin with, isn't it ? <P>When 'The Feeling' ain't there, The CHOICE takes over to do what is needed to rediscover the feeling. Otherwise you spend your whole life bouncing from one relationship to the next... without ever discovering what's over the next rise. And it's good. Promise.<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by suse (edited October 06, 1999).]

suse,<P>You won't find me saying anything about "following my destiny" or anything like that!! For one thing, I'm an affirmed atheist, so I don't believe in anything like that... For another, well, I grew out of that whole "fate" and "destiny" thing 11 years ago after my <B>first</B> affair! <P>--andy

Andy,<BR> Please do hang in there with your wife. It sounds like she is trying so hard. And trying in the face of about the worst type of adversity that any couple can face. It takes such a strong and committed person to do that. And that is so difficult to find in this day and age. I'm not saying you should be in love with that concept, BUT if you are still trying to get over the other woman, then as you know you have to give time until those feelings become distant. A good friend of mine told me today that finally she is ready to move on with her marriage after 1 year from the end of the affair and 4 months since she saw the OM. I don't know how long is sufficient, I wish I did. My H is in your predicament only just 5 weeks out. IT IS ALL SO HARD AND THAT'S ALL I KNOW. I would love to talk to you or your wife sometime. If you or she wish too, my email is mjrrjones@msn.com. Best of luck to you both and even if you are atheist you are both in my prayers, but I do respect your personal beliefs. Take care, Jenn<P>------------------<BR>

jennifer,<P>Hey thanks for all your kind words. I'm really gonna give it alot more time, like I said. I just can't give up yet. Way way too early.<P>My wife doesn't really want to talk to anyone except her councellor. I've asked her about that. She doesn't think it's helpful for her to talk to someone else in the same predicament. I don't really understand that, but I respect her decision on that.<P>--andy

Airheart:<P>After your first affair???? Lord bless that wife of yours. I really do not think I could the pain of this again. I am only a month or so into this nightmare. My points/opinions in my posts to you still stands. I truly hope you work it all out.

Yes KWAS, I am a betrayer two times over. After the first affair, things were never resolved. And I mean there were a TON of things to resolve. But we never worked it out. I'm sure if we had resources like this board after that first time, we wouldn't be in this situation now. I had no clue what happened 11 years ago. I couldn't understand why I did it, or what to do after. It was a big mess. So much so that obviously I didn't learn from my first mistake and fell in love again. Yes, my wife is pretty amazing. I have no idea why she has kept me around.<P>KWAS, if after the OW is completely a non-issue, I still feel this way about my wife, I will suggest what you said to her. It is only fair to allow her the freedom of finding someone who truly loves her.<P>--andy

Airheart,<BR>I sure appreciate your honesty. My h keeps telling me he does not know why this happened (his two year affair) That he never loved her and has never even considered losing me. So I ask you why? Why can't he tell me why this happened? or does he just not want to? I am sliding from shock, to baffled, to bitter. I see things in the last two years that we have done and I just get so hurt, christmas, birthdays, home purchase, our childs birthday, etc. I am getting so bitter and I do not trust anything anymore...my mind races to try to make some sense of it all. We have never split up and had what I thought was a good marriage, he seemed to be happy. What a fraud. I feel like I need to know why... but no answer. He just says "I don't know why" and "I am so disgusted with myself and what I have done to my family. Thanks for all your replies I am learning a lot from your point of view. <p>[This message has been edited by KWAS (edited October 07, 1999).]

KWAS,<P>I don't think it's all that strange that your husband doesn't know why he did it. I'll bet it's buried down deep. It has taken quite a while to figure out for me why I've had not one, but two affairs. I still don't believe I've figured <I>everything</I> out yet.<P>And I'll bet part of it is that he just doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't want to tell you what attracted him to the OW because he doesn't want to hurt you further, and also because he is then forced to live through his shame again. So he's kind of sealing that part of his brain off. Probably eventually he'll be willing to share.<P>My wife felt very similar about our wasted years. She thought I was happy as well, and when she found out I wasn't, she thought everything was just one big lie. But you know what? As long as your husband wants to work everything out, it doesn't really matter. What matters is your future, and your years to come that WILL be happy. Hey, that's what I'm hoping for too.<P>--andy

<BR>airheart<BR>we all greatly appreciate your honesty in this forum, thank you for being here<BR>I read somewhere that once someone has had one affair then its "easier" for them to do so again (presumably if similar conditions came up again), against someone who has never done so <BR>was it was "easier" to have another affair the second time? (cos of knowing how it works/ways to avoid being found out/knowing the potential highs are you lured more into it?? etc) <BR>did you ever truly think of the consequences of the first when you were having the second?<P>thanks!

azure,<P>I had multiple affairs in the past 9 years of my marriage. H never confronted me, but suspected while the first one happend in 91.<P>To me, the first one was the hardest one. Since our marriage was in a very good shape then, I was pretty much been 'pulled' into the affair by the attention OM offered me. However, after a while, I got used to sneaking around.<P>Through out the years, I had a strong guilty feeling down deep in my heart. Eventually I ended all of those by 1/98. But not until I discoverd H's on going affair in 4/98 did I feel devastated about the damage I put into our marriage.<P>Since 4/98, I read tons of books regarding the topic of marriage and affair. Through those reading, I started to do the self-healing and understanding.<P>Now I'm putting all the knowledge I gained to save my marriage. Even though H's affair is still on-going, and I'm in an extremely volnurable position. I'm 100% sure that I will never ever have an affair again. I know I will not even date unless we divorse each other.<P>My point is, no matter it's the first affair or not, unless it has been PROCESSED throughly afterward, there will always be chances of more happening.

azure,<P>For me, the first affair was a <B>very</B> painful experience. I never wanted to go through it again, and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.<P>So why did it happen a second time 11 years later? I sure wish I knew. I think alot of it had to do with the fact that I really wasn't happy at home. I was pretty much unsatisfied with my marriage (going all the way back before the first affair). And after that first affair, issues were never resolved between my wife and I. She never even really knew all the details of the first affair until fairly recently. She thought it was an emotional affair only (but I did have sex with the first girl). My second affair, btw, was only emotional.<P>I've struggled and struggled with the reasons why I've had two affairs. In my mind, I can't dismiss the thought that I never really loved my wife. I never had ACL for her (all-consuming love). I did love her when we got married, but my heart wasn't 100% there. Maybe only 80%... <P>But also, many of my most important emotional needs have not been met for so many years. And the fact that I'm going through withdrawal might be coloring how I feel for my wife. It's still going to take alot of time before everything shakes out in this whole mess I've made for myself (and by that, I don't mean just the affairs, but my whole damn life).<P>Back to your question -- it was not easier for me the second time around. I absolutely <B>hated</B> lying to my wife, and I didn't want to cheapen OW by sneaking around. I never saw OW outside of work (except once). We both agreed not to have sex, and we tried like hell just to remain friends. All in all, the experience has been very painful. Again, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.<P>--andy