I'm sitting here thinking about stuff - when my gal pal calls me, lamenting over the fact that she's having not such good luck in the dating arena lately. We have a lenghty conversation about the #1 dilemma, and I had this too when I first ventured out after divorce.

Men "say" that they their ideal woman would be independent, self-sufficient, have her own life that doesn't depend on a relationship, not "needy", etc.

Well, my pal and I fit into that category nicely. Both have great jobs that afford us the ability to pay our own mortgages, cars, bills, with some disposable income for travel, retirement, etc. We have no desire to re-marry or have kids (she's 50, I'm 45), we know how to operate a lawn mower and snowblower, and we know how to turn on a drill when required - we are so very "not needy" gals. We are ready, willing and able to pick up the check on a date - and offer to do so willingly......

Well, one guy dumped me because he was threatened by the above, and told me "what DO you need me for?" - another told me that he felt inferior because I had a 'better" house than he did (mine is 35 years old, not all that perfect) and yet another told me that since I was so independent, he would feel less of a man with me.......

My gal pal is having the same problem - even though the fellas she's connecting with online specify in their profiles that the "needy" ladies need not apply. They specify that they WANT a woman who can handle her end, and who can "bring home the bacon, and fry it up in the pan".....then when they GET that kind of lady, they run off with their tails between their legs.....

I got lucky - found a fella who is OK with all of the above, but I do remember him asking me way early in our relationship why I "needed" a man, since I so clearly didn't need a man around....I explained that "need" and "want" are two different things - and just because I can take care of myself, doesn't mean necessarily that I'm a big, bad broad that doesn't enjoy male company.....

Why is it that men do this??? Send those mixed messages? My girlfriend feels that she has to play the role of the weak female just to get a date these days.......

Just curious - ARE men threatened by self-sufficient women - and if so, why???

Laura

DITTO!!! This was a big problem in my marriage, and I've had several male friends make comments lately implying that I come across as too self sufficient.

Also, what can us independent gals do to come across as less threatening and still be honest?

Not me. I don't like dating damsels in distress.

AGG

I'm not male but I'll tell you about an interesting experience I had.

Since my D I've dated only one man for an extended time. It was casual & we ended as friends & still keep in touch.

I have plans concerning education I'll be working on over the next couple of years, getting certified to teach art, but I wasn't always certain about this path. At one point I was talking to this man expressing my uncertainty, wondering if teaching was really what I wanted, if I should choose art, etc...The point being I was expressing doubt & uncertainty.

His interest in me seemed to pick up again when he thought I needed help. He's admitted to me he has something of a white night syndrome but this was the first time I'd actually seen it in action.

Good to know that there are a few of you men out there that are not attracted to the needy ones - do you live anywhere near Chicago? I've got a great friend that I could introduce you to?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, I'm not a man, but IMO this is related to the need for admiration. I think some men get a good feeling (appreciation/admiration/respect) when they can help you do something around the house or hook up your speakers or whatever. If you don't really need any of those favors, then maybe you could get the same effect by asking for their opinion/advice on something ang thanking them for it. Another way may be to notice even small things they do, such as carry a bag for you, and throw on some appreciation. What do the men think?

Some are, some aren't. Men come in all different varieties. Some men get an ego boost out of feeling that they are taking care of their woman. Some men (well, boys really) want a surrogate mother to take care of them. And some men actually want a partner. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I don't think it's ever a good idea to "play the role of the weak female" or any other role which isn't true to who you really are. (Well, not in this context anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) The truth will come out sooner or later, and why waste time (not to mention the emotional risk) trying to attract the wrong sort of guy? There really are those of us who are looking for a strong and independent partner! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure I buy this connection. I don't have a strong need for admiration, but I do want to feel appreciated. So if I'm given the opportunity to help a woman around the house, or hook up speakers, or whatever, I'm happy to do it; it's one of the ways I like to express love. But it doesn't really matter to me whether or not she could do it herself - whether she needs me to do it for her.

I would rather be wanted for who I am than because I am needed.

Sure, send her out to the West coast <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Hey, I'm in this same boat. Not that I've been dating lately. One of my staff actually rewrote my match profile to make it "guy friendly". He said there were a number of women who wrote: travel for business, enjoy traveling, going out, etc. So, there must be alot of us on the "market".
I am not the needy type, but I would like someone to help out once in a while, and I would do the same.

GDP, where is it you live again?

Ha - my experience was that guys that wanted someone who liked to travel with them were looking for a gal to date and sleep with not for a permanent thing. My other opinion is that guys who put something like "those needy not apply" are actually control freaks who like needy women.

I avoided any guys who put negative things on their profiles.

I mean really - you think a guy that puts "need not apply" to anything is really not a negative sort of fellow?

V.

I'm in NE Ohio, newly. Why? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I don't think that there is a man who would say 'yes, I am'.
And, in practice (in the long run!, that is), just a few ones confirm they really mean it.
And, I wouldn't say "threatened", rather... no much charm or challenge in being with a "self-sufficient' woman...?
'They' can get it having a good female friend...?
Well, at least I don't like that there are less and less "differences" between a man and a woman (although I can be considered as a "self-sufficient' woman)...

I completely disagree here. I think I've said before that I wouldn't want to marry a woman unless I felt that she was "too good" for me. By that I mean that I want a woman whom I could revere and who would continually inspire me and challenge me to become a better man.

Furthermore, a woman who would meekly acquiesce to my decisions - which is more likely if she felt dependent on me and felt that she had insufficient leverage in the relationship - would offer no challenge to be creative in negotiation.

Just as another observation...

It seems to be common for people to say they want one thing (the thing they believe they ought to want), but then show by their actions that they want something else. I suppose the female equivalent would be all the women who say they want a nice man of good character but then go after the "bad boy" who treats them like dirt.

I understand but was not 'talking' about that...
However, if you do 'belong' to those 'a few ones', than you can hardly understand what I meant... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


No doubt
'no much charm nor challenge' there either...

OK, I think I see what you mean. There may be plenty of charm and challenge to a "self-sufficient woman" but a lot of men just don't have the wit to see it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've been reading this thread with great interest and I have a question specifically for GDP.

When I read these words, I get a little nervous. I married a man that said these exact words. I was the good girl that was his inspiration for striving for better. It worked pretty well for a while until my xh got tired of wanting to be a better man and just wanted to be himself. Apparently, in the long haul, it was just too much work and took too much effort. And, in all fairness, I got tired to feeling like a teacher and always being the one to inspire. He was the epitome of passitivity.

My question is - do you not find that it is better to challenge yourself to be a better man?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I bet most of us... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Then, after a while, their self esteem is crashed...

What about opposite - what is for a woman to be with self-sufficient man?
That wouldn't please ME I have to admit...
I NEED to be NEEDED (in a healthy way, of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)