you really shouldn't have called her last night

you WANT her to NEED you but you don't give her what she needs until she is reay to commit to the terms of your plan B letter

you met a NEED and that gives her something to keep her going

each time you do this, you are prolonging this for YOU

How do you know that she was "stand-off-ish"? In a real plan B, you don't interact with her AT ALL

she can pick up the kids at the door by honking the horn and drop them off the same way

i'm not trying to sound harsh, it's just that it sounds as though you are meeting YOUR NEED to have contact with her and you might not realizr this also meets HER need and prolongs the separation

thanks guys...I KNOW THIS!!! I went 9 days and you are so right..I am getting sucked back in...I needed to hear this!

eav, you are not harsh...I know I need a bit of tough love right now...sometimes I get bogged down by friends and family who want us to reconcile...they "don't understand" because WS is not seeing OP....whats MY problem now?....I am finding it hard to keep my balance...I guess I actually know what I have to do...just having a hard time doing it.

need to reset...get back on track...the weakening of WS is confusing...I shouldn't get my hopes up.. that always leaves me dissappointed...crushed actually...

OK back to dark...

I came home today and found my copy of SAA in the bedroom on my table....NOT where I left it...WS was here today to pick up stuff for the kids...I guess thats a good thing right...this is the kind of stuff that gets me weak, guys, the hope is creeping in...how can I swat it away?????

I keep saying to myself...no expectations...no expectations! dark dark dark:( gosh, I feel so weak

Here's my recommendation...

Send an email to remind her that there's no way you're willing to just be her friend. Tell her clearly that you DO want her back (if you do), and you've spelled out your conditions on accepting her back into your life in you plan B letter. Has she met those? NC with OP, etc...?

If not, then lovingly let her know that you're not willing to accept anything less.

THEN go back to the darkness. And keep this little patch of light VERY VERY brief.

The trick is to balance when it's the right time to end plan B and start recovery. The way to know is when she's met your PBL requirements, completely on her own.

Make sense?

Why isn't she getting meds for the panic attacks? I used to get awful ones - toughing them out is highly overrated. Anti-D's make them disappear completely.

fb,

Why on earth does she have access to your house? Change the locks quickly and stay Dark.

I agree with miketc, here. Change the locks. Make trade-offs of children at a more suitable time. If she needs things for the kids, she can go out and purchase what they need for HER home, otherwise, you can pack them up and leave them outside for her.

Please, Please, PRETTY PLEASE, read what Owl has written you. Print it out, post it where you can see it. Your WS must do these things PRIOR to coming back. Accept no less. She needs to be fully committed to recovery. My WH was INITIALLY, and then floundered when the pain of withdrawal set in. It's unnerving even when they commit.

thanks believer...fear has got her by the balls..so to speak...she's afraid of taking meds...even antibiotics...she is now able to take a tylenol once in awhile, and I know she has a script for xanax...only has used it once that I know of.



mike, thanks...she has access because she has respected me and not come here without my knowledge and permission, I know..she is not deserving of that trust, but being in a gay R, we are simply cohabitants by law, and I really cannot change the locks without a restraining order or some legal reason for her not to be here. it is a very sticky sitch. she asked to come by and get stuff for the kids. my mil was here as well. I just don't know of a better option at this point, if I push, I may need to buy her out of the house, and I was hoping not to have to do that...financially I can manage right now, but if I had to buy her out I would need to finance another 100,000. eek.

owl and sl...thanks for the support. I suppose that would be ok, but you are all so right...she KNOWS what my conditions are. I have emailed her my conditions, and PBL more than once, then reiterated it on the phone. I am just hopeful and essentially tired of waiting for her to get her s*** together. I think staying dark is probably the only way... even though I wish i could do more, I need to be consistent and show her that I will not budge from my boundaries.

I believe she does get the message, but she is not used to having to work for my love...just always had it..took it for granted. sl..I see what you are going through and I do HEAR what you are saying...I want a WS who is ready for the steep uphill battle of making it work. mine is not ready...and I have to keep reminding myself of that. I did decide weeks ago that crumbs weren't enough..they just look so darn appealing.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I hear you on the locks thing. Fortunately, my WW has respected that boundary. So far.

If you are still reiterating the conditions and PBL and whatnot, there is another level of darkness you can go to. Start hanging up the phone or refusing to take the calls.

You're right that your WS is not ready yet, and you won't settle for anything less. Until she's ready, stay

Dark dark dark

Xanax is perfect for panic attacks--that's what it's for, but you don't need to be the one to tell her that.

Part of the reason that I am keeping my thread going right now, is so others can use it as a reference, what to do, what not to do, what may happen, and to be ready...

Now that i think of it, i believe that we've had the conversation about the locks. AS long as you can remain dark, it's secondary. It still gives her that taste of home, so that can slow things down, but YOU separating yourself from her is a big WHAMMY.

Just practice what we preach. Hang that phone up. You do not talk to her, do not sympathize with her, feel sorry for her. She is a big girl and is capable of making these decisions. She chose to leave, now, well, she's gonna have to choose to come home, on her own.

When my WH told me on Thursday night that he wanted a D, I told him that the door is opened, and that if he chose to go, to take all of his stuff and go file himself. Funny, he even asked me 'how do I do that', then I said, "What?", he said, "File?" First, I looked him dead in the eye and said, "seriously, J, you go to your lawyer and say, 'I want to file for divorce'". He doesn't want to do it, and I'm not going to aid and abet someone ending my marriage like that.

It's the same for you here, you don't make this decision, or help her fulfill the conditions you stated for recovery. You just don't; you can't. If you try, and things are too rough for her, she will blame you and try to say that you are controlling, or someting along those lines.

For now, be strong, be silent, day to day...

Whether or not you’re in a gay R or not, as long as her name in on the deed, you’re not suppose to change the lock without a restraining order or legal reason but that doesn’t stop me or you from changing the locks. Let her take the legal action, the worst thing is the judge would make you give her the keys. Most likely she won’t file to gain entrance because it’s too hard. Be strong and call her on it. I changed the lock the day WW moved out, and she didn’t file. It would cost me 250K to buy her out but so what, they wouldn’t file and if she did and you lost in court, you could just give them the keys then. No buyout is necessary. Just my 2 cents.

yep...she knows it too..we are both nurses.

sdg..this is why its so hard to watch her go through it alone..I used to be her comfort..she refused meds..so I would sit with her and talk her through it...(enabler) do I need to say how much I liked feeling needed..how unhealthy is that...I KNOW she needs to combat these demons on her own...sometimes it still feels like I am abandoning her, but thats just my old self and my own unhealthy ways of attaching myself to something I shouldn't. something that is not my responsibility



sl....thank you for stating it that way....I can't HELP her to DO what is neccessary for ME to accept her back. SHE has to CHOSE to WANT to go through all the hard work in getting there. I am resorting back to my old ways of needing to help...not where I need to be... this will help me view things differently so I can understand myself and what motivates me a bit better.

thats really where my confusion has been lying....how to explain to myself why i am feeling the need to HELP her...well, thats just my MO, got to keep working on redirecting that motivation back to myself. and what I can control..my actions and needs. oh, how I wish this clarity for our WS's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

thanks mike...I had not been willing to get into any legal actions..kind of keep MY nose clean type stuff, but I will consider it...

Change the locks, she wouldn't file. You need to get dirty and fight for your R. Good luck.

I know people two years after the WS has left who still feel responsible for the WS, loyalty dies very hard.

After reading on these boards for so long, I have come to believe that most WS's have such a feeling of entitlement because their BS (among others) have always taken care of them.

Over and over and over again the story seems the same. The incompetent one goes out and has an affair.

People are not happy nor are they emotionally healthy unless they are contributing 100%.

Enablers don't hold them to that responsibility of contributing or being responsible for themselves and helpful to others.

So you are looking at it the right way, IMO

weaver..thanks for the support

yup that was me...enabling all along...no more, I am really doing well with those personal goals of healthy detatchment. I am trying everything out on my friends, and hsve been chewing their ear off about it.. thank goodness for true friends. they really do see you through the mud.

well, happy and sad to say not much to report....guess this is the slow...calm...quiet of plan B...even though not much inteference from the outside my heart is still on the roller coaster...my downward swing lasted much shorter this weekend. and I started uphill earlier than expected.

I did have to finally face the music with my children this weekend...ugh! DD5 seemed really overwhelmed in regards to time change as well shuffling to and fro. and she asked me why I don't ever come to mommy's apartment? gut wrenching. she also said "when are you and mommy going to stop 'taking turns' with us? ok, I am teary again. that really hurt. I let her talk about how much trouble this whole thing is and then I tried to reassure her that she would always have 2 mommies that love her and will always be there for her. it broke my little heart.

DS3 going on 4 also had a few question...wanted to know when mommy was coming home....how do you explain this to a 3 year old...I reiterated the same loving answers that I used for DD, and then we played a lot of silly ...laughing jump around pillow fighting games...boosted everyones spirit.

DS8 was a challenge as well....pretty much asked me why I had asked mommy to leave....frog in the throat....we had already laid down the excuse of "the parents need to work things out" and I always make sure to reassure them that they did nothing to make this happen, but DS8 got me. he's smart and wants answers. he asked me what mommy has to do to come home. I told him that mommy is trying to do better and that his parents still need to work on some things...he seemed to accept that... but I know he wants more.

thing is DS overheard the final conversation before the actual move out in which I angrilly asked WS to "get the flip out of my house" except it didn't sound quite as nice.

whew...oh, well....not much more to say...any tips on talking to the kids...I don't know what more to say to them
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Oh, man...sorry you had to go through that, FB. That's the worst. Do your kids know about the OP? Personally, I favor the truth (or at least as much as they can handle) because I know that I didn't want to be perceived as the bad guy. It was easier for me--WW moved out and introduced them to OM and has shown no interest in coming back home (despite the kids asking her to). My kids know that this is not what I want, and DS7 has been told that OM is the reason WW moved out. Last week I explained why I'm not talking with or seeing WW to my DS7.

Maybe you could do something like that for your son. Tell him that WW has been doing some things that hurt you, and that it's too hard for you to see WW while she's doing those things. You really do want WW to come home, but first she has to stop doing the things that hurt you.

It sounds like you're saying the right things (it's not their fault, always be two people who love them). I have mentioned that while I want WW to come home, she might not ever come home, and if she doesn't, we will all still be fine.

thanks sdg...good advice....you know the first few weeks I kept on them asking if they were alright...and how they were doing....so much so that they kind of said..yeah mom we know...we get it...

then I just let it slide...makes me a bit nervous about WS because it would be just like her to start to use the kids to pressure me to break plan B. example, a few wks ago she put it in the kids heads to ask me to sleep over her apartment... when i called to say goodnight each one of them got on the phone and begged me to come over...I missed them so much it was so hard...and very cruel of WS to do that. I wanted to lay into her, but I knew the best thing was silence.

It is just way too coincidental that they all hit me on the same night right after being picked up from her apt. I wonder if she is planting seeds. but then again, that could be the sadness from not being home with both parents at the same time.....ugh!!!

wondering is not a healthy thing...have to stop it. I just HATE to see this getting to my kids. they are usually pretty happy. I hate that they have to deal with the ugliness of life at such a young age.

Hi FB,

Seems like a lot of us on here have been having similar conversations with our kids. You can read how I dealt with mine on my thread (linked in my signature).

It's a fine line balancing the truth with what they can understand and comprehend. I think you handled it well and you are right to have done that.

Hang in there!