I've wanted to ask a question about a troubled marriage scenario that doesn't seem to be addressed by MB principles. This has to do with Husbands who, over time, have allowed thier wives to "control" the relationship.

The wife loses respect (and love) for the husband. The wife then seeks out an OM who won't allow this "controlling" behavior. Thus, the OM then becomes an "exciting challenge" to the unfaithful spouse. And an affair takes off.

Anyone ever seen this scenario? Does MB principles address this?

Well, the people you describe certainly were not using POJA in their marriages, and probably wouldn't recognize POJA if it dropped on their foot.

Do you think that the situation you describe happened in your own marriage?

Many people with "control issues" vehemently reject the POJA by snarling, "You're just trying to control me!" The truth is, they've been controlling their spouses all along and POJA would prevent them from being the tyrants they have become and enjoying the power and control the feel they are entitled to have in the relationship.

It's been my experience that the people who scream "You're trying to control me!" the loudest are *themselves* some of the most controlling people on the face of the earth.
Mulan

I think I am a victim of this very kind of relationship. Before I married my wife we had a rough spot where she wanted to end our relationship (passive aggresive she gave up on us without telling me...didnt cheat just checked out emotionally). When I realized what had happened she started making demands if we were to get back together. I treated her well but she thought I spent too much time on computer and work. I was so heartbroken that she wanted to leave that I started making all the changes she requested.

We soon got married and had a child and I devoted my life to them. The more I gave the more she wanted. And I could never do enough. She ended up having an affair with a co-worker who when I checked the communication between them showed her no respect. He would blow her off when she tried to see him at work since he knew sex wouldn't be involved. He even said at one point in an email that "I would make time to see you today but we are payed to work here you know". I could not believe that she would get irate with me for the simplest things yet she would allow him to treat her poorly.

I can identify with you Natchilous... From what I've read lately about dating and attraction, the above scenario happens in the dating world because the man "gives up" control to the woman. Thus, he constantly has to work to get her "approval".

When this happens, the woman views this as a flaw in the man because she EXPECTS the man to be in control and not "give in" to her "tests".

MB principles address the policy of joint agreement which states that major decisions should not be made unless both parties enthusiastically agree. That way neither spouse is the doormat or loses respect for the other.

The first thing I tell the BSs when they come here is to stand up for themselves. Assert their marital boundaries and enforce them. If WS won't stop calling OP on their cell phone, and you pay for it, turn it off. If the BS financially supports their WS, but they continue with the OP, then cut them off. Sure this will piss off the WS, but they will learn to respect the BS. My WW would not agree to NC until I took a hard line against her including kicking her out of the house and cutting her off financially.

Women fall out of love with men they don't respect. And they don't respect men they can run over. Dr. Harley has spoken about this before on his radio show. Mulan is right, POJA would preclude a spouse from acting like a wuss.

Even so, having no respect for one's spouse is never an excuse for an affair.

How does a man regain control when he (meaning me) has given up control for so long? I am no psycholigists but I often think my wife has her exBF around in order to keep me in line. Its the "do as I say or I have options" scenario. I therefore don't try to piss her off so that she doesn't find the need to get her EN met somewhere else. And, if she doesn't really want the control why does she so desperately fight for it.

It is strange that I have control over all aspects of my life except my marriage.

MP,

Actually, yes MB does address this situation. It is addressed within the concepts of "giver and taker". For a healthy relationship the giver and taker of both parties needs to be balanced. If you become only a giver and she becomes only a taker, the marriage is in serious trouble.

This is also where the concept of boundaries, POJA, radical honesty, and the 4 rules for a good marriage come in.

So the answer is...YES MB addresses your exact situation.

Your W has/had a need to have a spouse she respects.

Hope this helps.

JL

Call her bluff. If she leaves, then good for you. You don't want to be in a relationship where you are just being emotionally blackmailed. More than likely it is a bluff on her part to get what she wants. If she threatens to leave or leaves, expose it to everyone, and you can walk with your head held high because you fought for your M and stood up for yourself.

A man regains control by setting boundaries. He stops allowing her to run over him. The fact that you are scared of pissing her off is part of the reason she can control you. She knows you are afraid of her so as long as she knows this, she can successfully work you under threat of her anger.


You mean she uses that as an excuse to cat around. And she probably gets away with it.

Can she even stand for you to touch her?

I hate to hijack this thread since it wasn't about me. I am just realizing how under control I was. I didnt think I was. I just thought this was normal in a relationship and that women can be demanding (not sexist but my mom was a demanding woman).
She does allow me to touch her, but she refused physical contact during the affair (she must practice serial monagomy)

I am naturally an ascertive person so I dont understand how I allowed this to happen. The more I write and read here the more I see how much of a fool I was (am).

You gain control by letting the woman know in no uncertain terms you will not tolerate being treated like a door mat.

YOu can and will leave the M if you are not treated with the respect and dignity you deserve.

You do not need to be MR. Macho and say you are the boss and she will do what you say.

Make it clear you can only live as an equal. Not above her or below her. If she thinks another way can work prepare yourself to leave.

I was the bad boy when we got married. I too started giving in on every issue. I gave in. I let her have her way. It was the path of least resistence.

It continued until the day I sat in front of her and the MC and said I am now done. She may think I am lucky just to have her but I don't.

Now we use POJA and it is a much better place.

Thanks for the advice all,

Looking back on it now, I realize what a HUGE MISTAKE I made early on in my marriage. The irony of it is: the more you allow the spouse to "control" the relationship, the harder you have to work for "approval". And the harder you work to win "approval", the less your spouse respects you.

MP, natch
this thread is resonating. I have let my WS conrol me from the second we met. I have never been good at being angry, thus have always behaved defensively. don't do anything to make anyone angry. then they might not love you. not only did I make this mistake early on in my M, but now looking back in every long term relationship as well.

I ended each one feeling unappreciated, told myself they never loved me. when in actuality, I was the one who had never demanded any respect. one thing I know for sure is that behavior is stopping. I wonder how things can seem so clear and understandable now when I have been making this mistake for most of my life??????

my WS's OP treats her like crap. she even cried to me a few wks ago, my WS does NOT cry. I almost felt jealous. ridiculous I know but I thought "she has yet to cry over me"
my WS has been testing me for years, and I have been failing miserably. well, I am eager to learn anything new. I know I will get an A on the next test.

btw, my WS moves out tomorrow!!!!!!!!!! planB ready to roll. OWKA get the ****out!!!!!!!!!

Total sympathy with you guys, I was caught in this pattern too up til my mid-to-late 20s.

A little story about one of my early moments of insight:

I'd had a strong crush on this girl, had told her about my feelings, but she didn't reciprocate. A year later we had both moved to different cities but I was visiting the city where she lived and we met for an afternoon. When, after lunch, she wanted to go shopping, it was just too much. With the history, and not having any physical affection to lose anyway, that pattern just shattered. I told her firmly that I hated shopping, that I was only in town a few days and only with her this day, that I wanted to spend the afternoon talking with her and not looking at clothes, and that we were just going to go walk in the city park together. What really startled me was that later, when we met one of her friends for a drink, she told the whole story to her friend, glowing with pride, with more affection for me than she'd ever shown before. It was one of my first hints that my usual habits were in error.

Oh, and a bit of encouragement:

This pattern, while destructive when followed automatically, has a certain advantage in that it makes men who follow it extremely sensitive and attentive to women. You can develop the missing aspects of assertiveness, boundary-setting, and insisting on respect, and learn when to apply which pattern. If you do, you'll be both manly enough for women to respect you and sensitive enough to be charming! A truly attractive combination! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I now see where POJA (and other MB principles) can address my situation. I don't expect POJA to be an easy sell to my W. Especially since she likes to be in control. Yet, if I don't try to apply POJA, she will never have respect (or love) for me.

You don't have to "sell it".

That is self-defeating the program. You are fearing her responses.

Act...don't react.

Explain it...then just "do it"...yourself

As the MAN...take the lead and take charge.

It will take YOU some practice as well.

Leap your partner...she either follows or gets out of the way.

Slowly, as she fails to utilize POJA

Eventually...it will become a fully functional boundary

The key is YOU must speak up

Conflict avoiding will be your biggest enemy

Mr. Wondering