This whole Plan A, Plan B and Plan D thing have been on my mind for a while now.

I am a very goal oriented person and when I want something I work toward getting it. I start from the end and work my way back with a specific time frame in mind.

So many times I see people talking about these plans but what seems to be missing is the specific goal and a committed time frame.

IE I will only Plan A for x amount of time then I go into Plan B. Then I will Plan B for x amount of time then I will go to Plan D.

Then what end result that is acceptable?

To me the most desireable end result might actually be a Divorce for a BS.

I understand that the reason for this site is to help save M's but in some cases it just isn't possible.

In some cases the best thing for some BS' is a D. I have seen people in Plan B feel like failures or people getting a D that feel like failures.

IMVHO some of them are the biggest success stories because they followed the plan and came to the most desirable end result considering the WS.

Just my editorial.

Wonderful post Frog!

My Plan is to be 'ready' for each next step of the system. I am unwilling to work toward recovery of a M at ANY cost, and working the plans does help you to decide WHO you are dealing with.

Plan A is supposed to have a set deadline...set by the person in Plan A.

Plan B is supposed to have a set deadline...set by the person in Plan B.

It will differ for every individual. Both plans are designed to include self evaluation, self improvement and full independence.

If Plan A and Plan B fail, even after having been executed correctly and vigorously, the BS is better prepared to deal with moving to Plan D, because they have exhausted all the resourses and energy they could muster to try to save the marriage.

Therefore, one who has exercised the MB plan completely is better prepared to face divorce, and to enter into future relationships. Marriage Builders is designed to be a win/win program. Nobody, including the BS, should consider themselves "a failure" because the marriage ended in divorce.

Even the Harleys clearly state that all marriages cannot be saved. This is about individuals coming out winners, whether their marriage survives or not.

I hope that helps?

SD

Great post, SD. Sometimes the definition of success IS divorce. And many times a BS will decide to divorce and they are perfectly justified in doing so. Only the BS can decide what they can or can't endure and many folks just cannot endure the plans. There is absolutely no shame in that.

Shattered,

Thank you for the clarification. I already knew this by the way. LOL.

My point is many asking about plan A and Plan B are not setting up their own time frame or goal.

Plan A for six months with the goal of ......

Just my perception that I wanted to address.

Plus the whole failure thing as well.

My sitch was a bit boggled at first, as I didn't find MB until we were back together working on 'false recovery'. I wasn't able to implement Plan A, not for very long, maybe 1 strong month, and after 9 months, I was ready for Plan B.

I am learning sooo much in Plan B, about what I would like a R to look like, and what my current R (or lack thereof) looks like. I'm learning about what my needs have been and will be, how to decide on boundaries, and what enforcement means to ME. I'm learning that Plan D is on the horizon, and I will be ready...

MB has been a godsend to me, and my family. I've heard so many say "what is your plan?" I have one, and a timeframe of my own, that makes sense for ME. As Orchid will say, do 'this' or 'that' when your heart and mind are in sync...

LOL! I guess I wasn't sure if there was a question in your post or not... Silly me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Bottom line to newbies. Plan A needs to have a set timeframe. Plan B needs to have a set timeframe.

These timeframes can be changed, but they are based on the efforts you have put forth vs. the success you have earned. Most of us here would urge you to do both plans as long as you can. You can be divorced for the rest of your life, and have only one chance to save this marriage.

Believe and perservere... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
SD

SD,

Well tht is exactly what I am saying and agree with.


What I think is important as well is and as long as it may actually have a positive effect.

Plan A for an idefinite period could have a negative effect for a BS.

I just want to see people say more often that this isn't M at any cost. Stand up and have some dignity because it is deserved.

I believe I say that. M should NOT be at ANY cost. The heart needs to be tempered with reason (mind). Thus the need t/b in sync with your mind and heart.

Once that stage is reached, the BS can control their direction. If there is recovery, the onis is on the Xws to show he/she deserves to be let back into the family. If the BS chooses D, it s/b on the BS terms (not settlement only, but the terms to dissolve the M) instead of benefiting a WS.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid,



What do you mean by this? I plan on getting what I and DS deserve from a divorce settlement, when/if one occurs, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'terms to dissolve M'. What like, stand on one leg and bark like a dog on hot coals while juggling balls of flames...

Often a WS wants to 'control' and demands for the D, then commands the BS to get it for the WS.

That does NOT mean there should not be a D. But the BS should file for a D, WHEN the BS is ready NOT when the WS tells the BS to file.

See the difference? When the BS is ready, the WS is usually caught offguard and fears this as a loss of control. Them more stupid antics are pulled by the WS and if the BS isn't careful, false recovery could ensure.

So the BS needs to move forward on the BS schedule and BS terms.

Terms for the D could involve child custody, visitation, division of property....whatever is tied to the M.

The WS s/b willing to give all to the BS and family for the sake of the A freedom. The BS should feel obligated to be fair with a WS. Why? Because that fairness is not appreciated. Just stick to the law and no more.


L.

If my WH 'demanded' anything, I think I would burst into laughter first and then tell him to do it himself...

I will file when I am ready, not a moment later. I have a suspicion that my WH will not be the one to file, but if he does, I'm ready for that too. As ready as I can be, hence my LSA; it's a precursor to D. By law, the LSA does not have to be a part of any divorce settlement, but judges tend to enter it as part of an agreement, and do allow it to 'weigh' in; that is part of the reason I set it up. Another reason is, well, I don't have a set agenda for divorce right now, and I wanted a 'legal' leg to stand on in case of emergency...or WS brain melt, you pick...

FROGNOMORE WROTE:

...I just want to see people say more often that this isn't M at any cost. Stand up and have some dignity because it is deserved...

AND THE PEOPLE SAID:

A-MEN!

(guys, how do you do that "quote thingy" I have tried to no avail)

"Bottom line to newbies. Plan A needs to have a set timeframe. Plan B needs to have a set timeframe.

These timeframes can be changed, but they are based on the efforts you have put forth vs. the success you have earned. Most of us here would urge you to do both plans as long as you can"

as a newbie, I appreciate the guidance. it is so hard to keep your wits about you going through this with such volatile emotions. I feel like I am addicted to WS as much as WS is addicted to OP. like a crazy cycle. I feel like I am in the fog some days, and I can't think and act clearly. I think that is what screws up most of my plans. I have only been in A, but considering plan B.

I feel like I am driving down a dark foggy icy road and all I can see is 2 feet in front of me. I know plan A needs an end point and have that in the back of my mind. but if you are not "there" emotionally, then you can't move forward. I can move 2 feet but then only see further 2 more feet. I can't commit myself to plan A/ 6 mos because I don't know what I will feel like tomorrow, nevermind next week, month., everytime I fell a sense of "I've got it" I get rearended again. it seems as though every other day I am reformulating and then say " ok NOW, I've got it"


"Both plans are designed to include self evaluation, self improvement and full independence."

this part of plan A is the personal growth I feel I need to accomplish in order to have the strength to go to plan B or even D for that matter. I agree with time frame element, but for me anyway it is not a finite week/month/year time line but more of an emotional timeline of when i can truly say, time for the next step.

btw, this is probably the most personal growth I have had in my life. I am learning about my true nature, true desire, true instincts. how can you put a time line on that?? I just have to believe that I will know when the time is right for the next step. JMHO

IMO, the HARLEYS don't recommend a definite TIME LIMIT for PLAN A once it begins.

Isn't the rule of thumb to PLAN A UNTIL the BS' Love Bank begins to dwindle? This will vary from person to person.

This was the counseling to ME and to SIS more recently from Steve Harley.

I don't consider the end result of Divorce as indicating FAILURE.

However, the MB's Approach is most definitely focused on helping couples to work towards RECOVERY of their MARRIAGES. That is the most positive aspect of this approach IMO.

I just can't see the end of a marriage as being described as DESIRABLE...

Necessary...the best option...a sad fact..the opportunity for a better life...but DESIRABLE?

My opinion...

mimi,

I think in some cases yes it is DESIRABLE....

I respect my mom now more then I ever did. My dad was not a good H, father or provider. Committed adultry more then once, he was an alcoholic and verbally sometimes physically abusive. He was committed to that lifestyle and saw nothing wrong with it. As a matter of fact he thought there was something wrong with my mother for not going along with it. Not drinking more and going out to bars. My mom was no fun. I mean besides the fact she had two children to raise and not a lot of money because of my dad's partying whats not to be MRS fun for him.

Finally it became apparent to my mom that someone needed to change for the M to work. It wasn't going to be my dad he made that clear. So my mom left him.

My father partied until he passed away at the age of 52 with not a penny to his name. He found a woman with NO self esteem to be his new wife.

My mother found a wonderful stable man. She is set to retire this year. He already retired last year. They are going to travel the country together.

I would say each one of them got what they desired.

Sometimes two people desire different things completely and the end of the M is the most desirable thing for them.

Do I think it sucks. I do.

That is one of the things that got me thinking about this topic.

I don't think either one of my parents was going to change.
Neither one of them did after the D. They just found partners that desired the same thing.

People that have a plan will succeed if the entire plan is not built around saving the M!!!!!!

To me that is one of the acceptable outcomes but not the only acceptable outcome.

Frog:

I didn't want you to think that I ignored you.

I understand your viewpoint.

I really do.

I probably won't ever agree with you. Has to do my own life experience.

I never got over my parents' divorce.

My F died suddenly when they were in the process of reconciling.

I don't dwell on that past stuff at all anymore. I don't like to think about it.

Best wishes, Frog...

Mimi,

I understand your stance. LOL.

Maybe not getting over your parents D needs to be resolved now.

What is your plan on that? I think there is a difference between dwelling on an issue and working toward resolving our feelings about an issue. You need to resolve it one way or the other before you can even think you are dwelling on it.

best wishes to you Mimi.

I'm over my parents' divorce now.

My F settled that unresolve by dying.

My M since married a JERK..

That's another LONG STORY...


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