Hello everybody, NotSleeping here.

DW and I moved into our new house over the 3-day weekend. The kids were out of town and we spent a lot of time together and in general, we seem to be recovering. I even got a reluctant "I love you too" out of her after I said it a few times. We've been very affectionate with each other, talk more with each other...there was even SF three nights in a row, which I would be more thrilled about if I didn't have to think about OM being with my wife 3 nights in a row in Napa and on a business trip just a few months ago.

Our big issue now is CONTACT. I confronted her on Saturday and she admitted that in addition to the "accidental" contact in front of her office building last week, that she called OM from her office phone recently about "work issues", and apologized to him for being so difficult to work with all those years. On one hand it's slightly encouraging that she told me (although I did basically corner her into admitting it), but then, she's been adamant over the last month that there was no contact, so this means she has been lying to my face even while we were actively trying to rebuild our marriage. I almost feel more betrayed this time as I realize I was totally willing to believe that with the A being over that I could trust her again, and now I have to wonder if I can ever completely trust her again.

So I told her on Saturday that her NC letter from late November was not truly an NC letter, as it was really just a reaction to the A being exposed and OM breaking it off. She agreed and said she had been thinking she needed to write a new NC letter where she clearly states that she's choosing me and her family. I told her I'd like to do it this weekend. She said she "needed more time", and "maybe early February". I told her I wouldn't move to the new house with her if it's that difficult for her to protect my feelings and write the NC letter. Her asking for a few weeks shows me that she is definitely still having a very hard time thinking of truly eliminating this ****** forever from her life.

So today, in our daily goal list, one of my goals I shared with her was to work with her tonight on a new NC letter. Well, she's been in a strange mood ever since, and hasn't sent me her daily goals as we've been doing together for 3 weeks now. I sent her the WW recovery guide and sample NC letters from this forum. Here is her first stab at a new NC letter:




She asked what I thought of it. This was my response:



This is her reply to my reply:




I think using OM as a reference as a last resort and with my knowledge is a far cry from her original intent, which was to be able to call or email him with work questions from time to time and have it be with my knowledge so she could have her fix and not feel guilty. Obviously I won't stand for that. But as long as she works one block away and they have mutual work acquaintances, I think the following rules would be acceptable:

1) She avoids contact in all ways possible. This includes avoiding him in the street if she sees him before he sees her, and then she should let me know. It also includes telling him that she doesn't appreciate him contacting her and that she will tell her husband if he were to see her across the street and cross over to say hi.
2) If there is *truly* accidental contact, she will keep the conversation to just hello and goodbye, and let me know immediately.
3) Work-related questions can be answered by other coworkers or former coworkers. There should be no good reason to ask OM about work related questions.
4) When reference time comes, she will try to avoid using OM as a reference, but if it truly becomes necessary, she will cc me on the email to him and keep it brief and to the point.

What do you think? I know that's a lot of info, but there's a lot going on. I still feel pretty optimistic actually, although things are bumpy. My DW and I are definitely rebuilding and strengthening our connection, even though I see now that she is addicted to OM enough that it is not easy for her to severe that tie for life. It sickens me that she would still find it difficult, but it is only 2 months from DDay after all. My hope is that in time those lingering feelings for OM will fade away.

Thanks for listening,

NS

"Wishing you all best in your future endeavors,"

How sweet! Does this mean good luck on the next married woman that he goes after?

She needs to change jobs. Her answers are laughable.

Are you telling me she still works with the OM?

No, she had been searching for a new job during most of the year of the A. She finally started a new job, 1 week after DDay. But the new job is 1 city block away and in the same industry, so there are employees that know each other from both firms. There is one coworker, I will call "J". J used to work with OM and WW at the old company. J now works with my W at the new company. OM and J are friends and go to lunch together frequently, even before my W left to work at the new company. My W is likely to bump into OM when he walks over to the new building to meet J for lunch.

I think you will be dealing with a long term affair with this agreement. Can you live with an open marriage? We have several affairs that turned into long term affairs by playing loosey goosey with the no contact step.

As long as she stays in any contact with the OM, your marriage will not recover. Recovery will be impossible. But, if you are willing to live in an affair marriage with on-again, off again contact with her OM, then that is your choice. But, I promise you, it will be like dying a death or a thousand cuts. Every contact will put you back to day 1 of recovery. She will be in PERPETUAL withdrawal.

Well, that won't work.

Here is Dr. Harley's no contact letter:

Dr. Harley�s (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she�s been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

So the real answer is for W to get a job further away from OM? She searched for this job for nearly a year. Jobs in her field are not easy to come by.

How about if I meet OM in front of his building and tell him that everything south of his building is his, and everything north (where my W works) is mine. If I catch him in my territory, I will introduce him to Plan P. That is the plan where I show him what real Pain is, and it won't be as simple as physically attacking him, as that would not come anywhere near the Pain I have felt. Plan P involves destroying everything he holds dear in his life, and leaving him to live with it. Think that might keep him from strolling over for lunch?

Ask her how unreasonable is cheating? Give me a freaking break!