BetrayedHubby here. We're dealing with post-D-Day restoration efforts. WW had a 4-year A. During that time we went to counseling, but she never let on and derailed effectiveness, making me look to be the main problem. Counseling was undermined, I was confused and frustrated. D-Day October 2006. We're both Christians, strong Bible background. Story:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3157939

She is, I BELIEVE, deeply struggling to do what is right, the OM is deeply engrained in her, I need to change sensitivities/behaviors to meet her needs. She cannot yet fight urges to contact OM, though not "passionate", still may periodically a friendly e-mail forward or maybe text. I'm suspicious, she's a mess. Confused by the past, fearing the future with ME.

QUESTION: Please help me as a guy with an outed WW "after D-Day" to understand the mind of a WW with this type of confounded emotional state. It's oh so hard to rise to the level of meeting her needs when the OM is both the standard of comparison (except for character of course...), the Fog is thick, and the WW doesn't know which end is up. It's hard holding on to hope.

Thank You!

BetrayedHubby

In your sig line you say

NC: Hasn't verbally consented yet! She's on her "Journey" with a counselor!

I say...What about your "Journey"???

If she's in contact at all...it's really still an affair. I nearly guarantee that her "Journey" will last indefinitely, she'll play the "counseling out" just as she did the prior marriage counseling. Nothing will change...unless YOU change the dynamic.

I know this is getting to a tricky part. Where her words are getting better, almost OK...but it's her actions that are revealling.

Trying isn't good enough FOR YOU

Mr. Wondering

Here's a post I wrote a couple of years ago which might give you some insight into the way things look as you enter recovery. I hope it helps in some way...

Here are some thoughts I recently had about many struggles and questions many BS's seem to have about recovery.

* For all of the sameness, likeness and similarity in what we read here about affairs, I think that they are all different, too, like all the different faces in the world. Each different face is connected to a different personality, and each personality reacts just a little bit differently than the next person.

* Somehow we "connected" with our spouses. That first meeting. The first date. Hanging out. Something happened. We were first maybe intrigued, maybe curious, maybe drawn, maybe even didn't like the person we end up married to. All those courtship moments were little different than the start of an affair. Were we always honest with the person we were seeing? Did one think they were an exclusive "item" while the other danced with devils behind the others back? When we "broke a date", was the reason given the truth? Can we remember through the "fog" just how honest and open we were with this interesting new person? What was our relationship status with others, during that time? Did we let someone down, perhaps, not too gently? I honestly cannot remember. I met my soon to be wife, and was as in the fog as any WS we've seen described here.

* Speaking from my own experience, I know my wife was not happy with most of our marriage. I was "ok" with most of it, but knew somewhere along the line, the passion was lost, we led individual lives a good share of the time, and when together, we had "good times", but without that connection. We both "took a stand" every so often about our own concerns about our marriage, but we never did anything about it. We never said, maybe we are broken, and need some help. But instead, she went garage sale shopping, I went golfing, she went to church, I went fishing, she went to parent teacher meetings and I worked late, and so on and so on. Neither of us realized just how broken the marriage was. We looked happy to our parents, our friends, our neighbors, etc. But we were just going through the motions of day to day existance, most of the time.

* Then one day, out of the blue, she runs into the wrong person at the wrong place and time, and click, they connected. Our marriage was not strong enough to make her stick to her boundries. This is a woman who was a church deacon for 5 years! Whatever it was 30 years ago that put her in my presence, so that we had the opportunity to connect, had taken place again for her, but this time she knew it was wrong, but she couldn't for some reason, deny the "opportunity" to feel that "spark" of falling in love again. She told me that, flat out. The spark was gone between us, and she wanted that feeling again.

* She cannot explain how she could set our marriage aside to be in the A. She said it "just happened". And once the line is crossed and the fog sets in, well, we all know what that's like!!!

* So we go through the ****** of DDay, anger, pain, utterly as low as human beings can feel, speaking for myself, of course. We struggle, we grasp, we search the web, we find MarriageBuilders, which looks like the only hope in this darkness and dispair which has become our life.

* Then we come to "terms", by some twisting path of NC, Plan A, Plan B, seperation, suicide attempts, MC, some of us get to this or that point of "recovery". Sadly, many don't get to this point as "easily" as I have. And I don't mean that lightly. I cannot believe how much more others have had to suffer in this process than I have??? Anyway, we get to recovery, and then what?

- We have to learn to reconnect, with all of this "baggage" we have accumulated, both Pre A, and during the A.

- We have a spouse who's been thinking, man, I messed up. I had a real connection with this OP, and I'm giving it up for a marriage I can only remember as less than satisfactory.

- We've endured more pain that we ever wanted, or thought we could survive.

- We, too, were ready to give up the marriage, more than once throughout the ordeal of the A.

- We, the BS's seem to have the notion that once the A is ended and NC is in place, the WS should simply get 150% remorseful, apologize 10 times a day, with sincerity, and buy every self help book about saving marriages, and go into action immediately. That just doesn't seem to happen. That, of course, angers us, because we've just become PHD's at saving marriages, and our FWS won't even read HS/HN's???? So what are we supposed to do?

- Let's talk about it? No? Why not? What? You just want me to forgive you, and forget about it and never talk about it again? We have already talked about it in every way, and there is nothing left to talk about? It seems that most WS's take this approach. OK, I've been found out, we yelled, we cried, I said I'm sorry, we've talked about it, now let's get on with life. This seems to be the norm. Does this give us BS's much to cling to? I'm afraid not.

- Back to all of the differences in each of us, and in our relationships. I think there is a weird dance taking place for all of us in recovery. We live in fear we'll LB, or the FWS will have a moment of weakness, and renew contact. We live hoping what we've changed about ourselves will continue to "lure" the FWS back into our lives. We have to be careful about triggers, both sides have hundreds of those to contend with, and they pop out of nowhere. We have to reclaim our spouse from opposite ends of the affair spectrum, coming from two completely different points of view, while neither of us fully understand about the other's point of view. So we have this bizarre, cautious, exploratory, semi-terrifying, semi-sensual dance going on, to the beating of a drum that just a few months ago had a beat of impending disaster.

- I guess the answer is, then, your own POJA'd recipe of time, care, caution, love, fear, remorse, grief, HN/HN, your own divine spirit, and hard work. Add in additional herbs and spices that suit your own situation, and then hope your marriage may grow to vary between a simmer and a full passionate boil till death do you part.

Sorry this is so long...it's an uncharted path, but one we have to take, for better or worse.

SD

BetrayedHubby,

Sorry to hear but your case sounds like mine was - WW in long term, clandestine A (my FWW's EA was greater than what's in my sig line), which raised problems w/in our M that I didn't grasp until D-day. Like Mr. W says, you cannot permit contact b/c that constitutes an ongoing A! Have you exposed to the OMW (assuming he's married)? If married, you must do so, no matter how much your WW pleads for you not to.

From my experience as a BH, the WW's withdrawl process is tough; our MC said it was like breaking an addition (not something I liked hearing either). I think the WW misses the OP, is questioning herself how she should have put a good M at risk and wondering if the OM still loves her, all at the same time. It seemed like a combination of grief, remorse and ego. My WW broke NC a couple of times, beware of a six month setback. You are in for a rough ride but hang in there, read the advice & books on this website and offer your WW the chance to be open and honest. Her honesty and your plan A can hopefully help her see the light and begin anew. If she can't do it, then it's plan B time.

V/r,
No way

BetrayedHubby,

Pretty typical with ongoing contact.

Would your wife like to email my wife? We are both Christians as well and they probably have similar struggles - My wife can give the view from the other side. My email address is in my signature if she can help.

the WW mind [color:"red"] <~~~ here [/color]

if you read this linked thread
the first part is all about the BS state of mind

but halfway through the thread, Kiki speaks about the WW state of mind

perhaps this might help you understand

Pep

All replies are appreciated! Any ladies (ex WWs) care to add more to the inner workings of the betrayer? Defog time, emotional disengagement-reengagement with spouse, etc.

How about the process of emerging from duplicity/deception as a way of life and rediscovering the difference between habitual lying and being truthful?

Thanks.

I am understanding that while there are basic principles, there is no magic, one-size-fits-all A-B formula - there are many variables which affect the duration of recovery.

Betrayed Hubby

Thanks, Shattered Dreams. Your words are supporting and echo a "lean on me" feel. We BSs really need this site. Thank you SO much!

Betrayed Hubby

To MR. wondering:

You said "If she's in contact at all...it's really still an affair. I nearly guarantee that her "Journey" will last indefinitely, she'll play the "counseling out" just as she did the prior marriage counseling. Nothing will change...unless YOU change the dynamic.

I agree. I have made this clear to the MC. In fact, we are set for a couple interaction this Friday with the MC in which I will make this clear again. I really believe she is in a deep struggle. It's a fine balance between giving "grace" and knowing when to draw the line. We're 100 days into D-day after a 4-year EA/PA. The next few weeks will tell, but for know, I believe that she is sincere, but the OM addiction can be strong since she has been in marriage withdrawal for several years. I'm watching with both eyes open.

Thanks for your response!

A Betrayed Hubby

Hey, bh, did you read that thread that Pepperband posted for you? Read the whole thread, if you didn't. Pretty powerful stuff, a much better insight into the mind of a WW.

Hope all is going as well as can be expected for you...or better!

SD