About 1.5 weeks ago I was in bed at about 12:30 at night and my husband was in the office on the computer. All of a sudden I hear my husband shut the office door. Curious as to what he was up to I snooped things out and heard him having Phone Sex with another woman an old friend of his. I was in shock. She had sent him Campics of the ordeal and she was the one who offered such an activity. I know this because I have access to my husbands IM and Email accounts(he does not know) I confronted my husband about this and started out asking him if he needed to tell me anything, ofcourse he said no. So I spilled the beans and told him I had heard what he did on the phone with Alex ( we will call her that on this post) He told me Alex was depressed was suicidal and wanted to do something to cheer her up she had recently been rejected by several men and felt down and out about herself. Alex's history is that she has had Man problems for the last 5+ years and she leans on my husband as her crutch. He told me he wanted to do something to make her feel wanted and didnt want to reject her offer and say no to her for fear of what she would do. In addition to this conversation he had told her that next time he saw her he would let her see his package since she showed him hers. Well the following week after this while I was at work my husband called this woman at 9:30am to talk there were 2 phone conversations within a 15 min time span of about 10 minutes total talk time. (I know this bcse I have checked the cell phone records) I asked him if they met up that day or any day for that matter and he said no. I asked him if he had ever offered for them to meet and he at first told me no until I told him to stop lying to me and start telling me the truth that I at the least deserved that much from him being his devoted wife. So after a lengthy conversation and the first 10 minutes of it with him lying to me he came clean with telling me that he offered to have her come over into the garage while I was asleep and that she invited him to her place but he said he could not bcse I would find out. Need some advice..is what he did considered cheating in the handbook of cheating or am I overthinking the phone ordeal? Also since our talk he has not made one phone call to anyone outside of family members, has not been on the computer and is "sucking up to me"

in my book phone sex IS sex...
lots of couples, married, etc, do it as a way to be close to eachother when they cannot be together due to ldrs, or time away for business, etc.

it is a way couples share sex when they cannot be together.
so yes, it is very intimate and IS sex.

he def cheated and you are NOT over reacting.

mlhb

T2,

I agree with mlhb...

What your H did was to put another person ahead of you in your marriage...that's infidelity.

That he has stopped right now is terrific...a DJ on your part about calling it "sucking up to you" because he may be craving your attention, presence...and if you choose to see it as manipulation, you may continue to not meet his ENs.

Have you read all about Love Busters (LBs)? Emotional Needs (ENs)? I would suggest you both take this seriously and work on your marriage...take the catching it early so the cure won't be as hard...increase your chances of keeping your marriage.

There are questionnaires, books and great stuff on this website. Give each other 20 hours of Undivided Attention (UA...the rule of time)...honesty...intimacy...

Learn about marital boundaries...which means both of you guard your marriage and do not have intimate relationships with members of the opposite sex...which means neither confiding in or listening to intimate details...reserve those for each other...and be each others' highest priority...to keep either one of you from putting another ahead of your marriage.

You have a great shot at affair-proofing your marriage right now. Follow the Four Rules of Marriage.

Welcome.

LA

Appalling Truth, just sickening. I did something similar to my wife. There is hope. I just do not know how I ended up justifying my crap. It is all a line of crap!
Now one thing make sure it is clear, very clear.CRYSTAL!!clear. That this ends and sucking up , will not do it.
It has been one year since my online and phone affair, there are many times I must comfort and prove myself yet again.And I do not resent this reoccurence one bit. I savor it,for I could be a great distance from my wife with no relationship.

He has serious work to do on himself.

Thanks for the input. Question for Gandolf how long was the process for your wife to forgive you enough to be intimate with you again. I find myself repulsed by what my husband did and yes that will affect my husbands "EN's" if I can not find a way to overcome these feelings of disgust for what has happened. To me he took away a part of our intimate life that we vowed to keep sacred with only eachother. In addition him beginning with lying to me also does not sit well either. I love my husband very much and am a firm believer that anything can be worked out and mended however how long this will take me is anyones guess. Feel as if I need a more better understanding what would cause my husband to do such a thing when he can sit there and tell me that he loves and would never do anything to hurt me. He does not view this as Cheating as I do, and he said he does not expect me to understand as I have never had a close friend that was suicidal to try to comfort, which I have not. However I do believe that the line was crossed and told him I felt there were other ways to comfort his friend without resorting to such an action.

When someone states they feel suicidal, the truest friend will call 911 and them her address. That's respecting her and taking her seriously.

All the rest is justification, messing with her life, and her, attacking your marriage.

Don't allow him to DJ you by saying he doesn't expect you to understand...you're as capable of understanding, acknowledging and not choosing not to believe as he is...

Fighting for your marriage takes agreeing to disagree about perspectives and perceptions...believing it's okay to have phone sex with anyone outside your marriage crosses a big marital boundary.

Boundary enforcements are predetermined...not reactive...and progressive...what is your boundary enforcement for him speaking to this person in the future, now that they have been intimate?

LA

yes, i have to say that is the BIGGEST crock i have ever heard. she was suicidal so i had to have phone sex with her to make her feel better. omg, don't buy that line of garbage. that is pathetic.

i agree with la, a true friend calls 911 if someone is suicidal... i doubt she is suicidal at all, that was just the lamest excuse that could come out of someones mouth.

mlhb

I completely agree with you both.
Truth, I hesitate to give you a figure on how long it was simply because every situation is so unique I would not want to give you something to contrast to.
I will say this. It takes as long as it takes.
Depends on both you and your spouse.
One other thing the first step in any change is first realizing there is a problem.As long as your H lives in denial
he might as well go to Egypt.
Part of what helped in my relationship is I didn't minimize or deny this for longer than a few hours of my wife having a "faceoff" with me. I was in such fear and regret for what I did. I saw my wife as even accepting me in her life still as a very precious gift, a second chance does not have to be there, it is a very precious gift , not to be squandered, the sooner your H understands this the closer you both are to reconciliation.
Good things to you and blessings.

I have told him that I expect him not to talk with her anymore online, on the phone and will never meet. I explained to him that not only did she by asking to have phone sex with my H hurt me but it also has hurt our marriage, that she holds no loyalty as a friend to want you to cheat on your spouse. I also have explained to him that there are wiser choices then the choice he made on how to console his "suicidal" friend. I believe this was more of a I am up and why not type of deal with my H and not taking in consideration for his wife or marriage. This we discussed and he agreed that he does not do things always thinking of how it will affect me or if I would be upset. Sad on my part because I do consider my H before making decisions as I feel in a variety of decisions in life once you have a spouse that they too affect that person. It has been 1.5 weeks since our talk about this. He has not fallen back into his normal daily routine of getting on the computer as soon as I go to sleep so that he can entertain himself either in IM or on the internet. He also is upfront and honest with me on who he talks to, think alot of this is that he now knows I have the phone records and can check them on a daily basis. I believe he does realize that he has been given a second chance...hopefully he will utilize this one more carefully then the last one.

SOmetimes emotional cheating hurts a lot more than physical. IT is the thought that all that time on the phone, computer etc could have been spent with you. I caught my husband having a 3 month emotional affair with his ex-girlfriend. I have checked Credit Card bills, phone bills, etc. and found that they had not seen eachother but talked numerous times a day via phone and email. It has been 6 mo and I still cry at the thought that he could have placed me his wife and mother of 2 aside to get involved with an ex-girlfriend. I will never know if I made the right decision in staying or the wrong in wasting my time but all I have to say is, keep your eyes peeled.

Okay so last night found out that the H has taken off the archived history on his IM...this may be me jumping to conclusions but to me this is him trying to keep something from me. I am at this place now where I feel as if I dont even know him, I dont know what to think of him or our marriage. I have started reading a marriage help book and one of the things it says to do is describe in 5 words your marriage. I asked him to do this and he wouldnt. How do I get him to want to work at this marriage? How do I get past this feeling that I am living a marriage full of lies and get him to open up? He is a great talker when it comes to his friends problems but when it comes to him and us he will not talk he clams up. I made this observation to him at one point and he told me that its much easier to talk about others problems but when its your own its not. I wanted to say that you have to confront the issues and accept the things that are wrong that you may have done. I am trying to take the least argumentative route because that solves nothing with him. I have to play psychologist in a way to get him to discuss things, non-confrontational, non-blaming....Need advice on what I am to do I feel like I am walking in a daze, and its come to the point where others I noticing my unhappiness...I have had several people come up to me and ask me why I dont smile anymore...its hard to smile when you dont know how much of your marriage is lies, and you dont feel like you know the man that you love. When we were dating he was the best man I could ever ask for. Always supportive, always loving, caring, romantic, shared everything with me, we would snuggle on the couch together and just talk for hours. Since we have been married it has all dwindled and he tends to almost desert me at night, he will stay on the computer basically from the time we finish dinner until after I go to sleep.

How did you describe your marriage in five words?

How much do you open up?

Do you own your own stuff and share it?

Did you say to him last night, "I fear you're clearing the history on your IM to hide from me. I feel manipulated and lied to right now."

?

You are response-based here: "I am trying to take the least argumentative route because that solves nothing with him."

You are making your choice of how to speak and what you say based on his possible responses...which is the definition of self-betrayal. Not honest at all. When you choose to share your thoughts, from your intent to live honestly, you don't self-betray. You act knowing you cannot control outcome, determine response...which is living honestly.

"I have to play psychologist in a way to get him to discuss things, non-confrontational, non-blaming...."

Another lie to yourself...no one says you have to anything...you choose. You choose to play psychologist instead of being a respectful partner. Holding yourself to your standards of honesty, sharing, intimacy and connection.

"Need advice on what I am to do I feel like I am walking in a daze, and its come to the point where others I noticing my unhappiness..."

Be honest by speaking truth...

"I have had several people come up to me and ask me why I dont smile anymore..."

Why do you choose not to smile, to not know your own happiness in who you are?

"its hard to smile when you dont know how much of your marriage is lies, and you dont feel like you know the man that you love."

This says you are dependent on him for your happiness...another lie to self and to him. Clear up your own and maybe you won't see your marriage as full of lies.

"When we were dating he was the best man I could ever ask for."

When you were dating, you both had clean slates...and images of each other...half of which you CHOSE to see and now you don't choose to see.

"Always supportive, always loving, caring, romantic, shared everything with me, we would snuggle on the couch together and just talk for hours. Since we have been married it has all dwindled and he tends to almost desert me at night, he will stay on the computer basically from the time we finish dinner until after I go to sleep."

This is the normal relationship course...infatuation (with image) and sharing to get to be known...Phase I...then Phase II comes along...and you realize what you both were sharing benefitted your self images...and Phase II, in marriage, is where you begin to show your real selves...even the parts you are ashamed of...tough stage...usually where people leave...real selves are too ugly (and they aren't)...and it's the work you do now which gets you to Phase III...mature love and partnership phase, where both thrive, side by side...for a lifetime.

You take him running away from himself as running away from you. You can choose to perceive that differently. Sounds like MC and IC can help you to see reality better...get to honest and open intimacy...where accepting all of both selves comes to fruition to get you to Phase III.

Up to you...your choices matter as much as his do...each of you are half the marriage.

LA