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My long time boyfriend had an ‘affair’. In the Living Together forum, there was a response to another post, "you aren’t married, there are no kids, just walk away" Get a relationship “untainted by poison of infidelity. When I came to this site, I heard hope that things could be better than before if two people work at it. And I have always been a hopeful and determined person. We’ve lived together for 11 yrs., known each other for 14. We are 38. I’m invested in this even without marriage. We were each other’s family. Betrayal still hurts and relationships still matter even without marriage. And long term relationships take work, like marriage. So, here’s my story.
We decided last August to move to a different state. He got a new job. I was going to work until end of year, then move in Feb. which I did. We both have professional, successful careers. I met a friend prior to our decision to move who kind of “tapped me on the shoulder” and made me think about why I was always so stressed, what I was doing with my life just by asking me simple questions that I found myself contemplating. This led to me doing spiritual reading, writing down my sleeping dreams and trying to figure out a ‘life purpose.’ It was an exciting and confusing time for me. When I moved, I wanted to arrive and feel totally reassured that I was in the right place, that all my life- thinking didn’t mean I was with the wrong person. Unfortunately, being 2 fairly non-communicative people and having grown up in those environments, I pushed by boyfriend away. I know this isn’t my fault but I wasn’t the best girlfriend at the time. I was waiting for reassurance that he had no reason to think I needed. We had been apart for 7 months, I quit my job, and moved to a place he had already been living. I was asked to work from home for the same company so was adjusting to being confined all day with occasional trips to the gym. There was so much adjustment and confusion, I didn’t recognize what was happening. After 12 years, you take for granted that the relationship can just take everything- married or not. I believed every word he said to me.
In May it turns out he flirted with a girl at happy hour from work, and started talking to her every day on cell phone. In June, they kissed. In July, he told me that we weren’t going anywhere and that we should break up. Just proclaimed, no discussion about what was wrong. So, I opened up with all my confusion, that we had gotten disconnected and needed to focus on us before giving up. He asked me to leave so he could think. I went away for 2 months. His rule we didn’t talk for the first couple weeks, then talked periodically. I knew it was a bad idea because the last thing our relationship needed was less connection and less meeting of needs. Turns out he was sleeping with OW in July, went camping with her and his best friend’s family the weekend before I left. Was at her house, the night he told me he needed to think and I stayed up all night thinking he was dead on the side of the road somewhere. The night I realized he was really my family and how could I have doubted I loved him like that. I came back in early Oct. We didn’t talk about what he thought. I didn’t want to pressure him. Thought he had been busy with work. I went on a business trip, came back and he told me nothing had changed that I should leave. I said, ‘of course, nothing’s changed’- your version of trying to work out the relationship is you thinking by yourself, we’ve taken no action. He kept saying a relationship should be easy. I didn’t leave then, a couple weeks later he asked me to stay at my mother’s after Thanksgiving and that we would deal with separating our things another time. I was frustrated at another proclamation without talking so didn’t agree- it would have driven me insane. I had left a note that we would pack together and if he really felt that was the right thing I would leave but that I wanted us also to talk about our feelings. I had been writing in a journal and was being very open since July.
I noticed a repeated # on the cell phone bill. Nov. 26- OW calls the house; she is out front. Thought it was over with me for a few months now. He said I was never supposed to find out. He had ‘checked out’ and in his mind it was over. Each day I learned more unbelievable things. He ate Thanksgiving with her family (she has 2 kids). Introduced her to his sister and mother when they know I am still living here. He said he seriously contemplated our 12 yr. relationship while he was talking to her everyday and sleeping with her. I read to him “how affairs start’’ from MB. In all this, he read my journal, he listened to my info. on affairs, he never helped me pack. He finally admitted what happened was textbook. I started counseling the day after I found out. He started last week. And said we will go together- maybe just to understand what happened, to get some resolution. So, like those who are married, I feel the betrayal, deceit, manipulation, thoughtlessness, violation of our memories. Some hours I think finally all of our unspoken insecurities are coming out and have “blind hope”- like I had when I went away for 2 months so 'he could think'. Other hours I think I must be crazy to be here still.
He ended it with her, when he told me and her that he realized he had some issues he needed to work out. He is now very specific about where he is going and when he’ll be back (without me even asking), he’s answered all my questions, but he just told me that he would probably tell her about the counselor because she cares how he is doing. I told him it needs to be between us, it’s private. He hasn’t said he wants to work on our relationship, but told me to hold on packing more and that we would go to counseling to get resolution one way or the other. How long do I wait for him to decide to actively work on it with me? Am I just suppose to give him time to sort out how he feels? What if all he remembers is that it wasn't that great when all this started- I agree it wasn't? He works with her so he sees her. Plus, I know she still calls him. He says because she is concerned. Thanks for listening and any comments.
Last edited by blind_hope; 12/20/06 11:48 PM.
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Hey Blind-hope....glad you are here..there are some wonderful people here that can really help you...I do have a question...Why have you two never gotten married?
God Bless
A
"If God brings you to it, He will get you through it."
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Welcome.
If you have been reading here, you know that he cannot work with the OW. As long as they have contact, he won't want to work on his relationship with you.
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If he truly wants to save your relationship, he is going to have to switch jobs so there is NC with the OW. Dr. Harley is very good at helping WH understand why they had the affair and what needs to be done to rebuild the marriage. I would say the phone counseling would be worth the money.
Why haven't you gotten married? This could be a sign that he isn't willing to commit to you and that you should maybe move on. If he does decide to stay with you, then I would suggest getting him to commit to marriage. If he balks at that, I would cut him loose.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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Am I just suppose to give him time to sort out how he feels? What if all he remembers is that it wasn't that great when all this started- I agree it wasn't? He works with her so he sees her. Plus, I know she still calls him. He says because she is concerned. Thanks for listening and any comments. I believe that you have given him enough time and that you deserve some answers/commitment from him. And what part of NC with OW doesn't he understand? You may want to hold off any more physical or emotional investment at this time until he gives you a more direct decision on his part. Oh, same question: why didn't you two get married?
Last edited by sag06; 12/10/06 12:07 PM.
ME:46 DS:15 DS:12 In a relationship w/NPD for 17 yrs. ended:05/22/06: Thank you God! Mark Twain: "As I got older, my father got smarter"
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Dr. Harley has a very different opinion on living together than he does on marriages, so you might want to read this article first: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5025_qa.html
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Why we never got married? The years went by fast, careers, new jobs, different apartments, travelling, family committments. Neither one of us ever presented it to the other as we need to do it or not. We both thought about it at different times, but it was never a focus. He says now he thought he'd wake up one day and know it was time to do it. You just take for granted after a while that the other person will always be there even though you aren't married.
I read Dr. Harley's comments on living together. He does cite a study that says after 8 yrs. of living together then getting married, divorce rate levels off to equal to never living together first. That made me less disheartened that we didn't doom ourselves from the start. We obviously made decisions to support long term otherwise we wouldn't have been together so long. I quit a corporate manager's job when we decided to move states for a job offer he had last summer.
I've read to him things from MB. I say 'I know we aren't married." But he agrees it applies, we had an implicit committment. I told him I am not here because he was someone I was dating, but because we were family and he says I wasn't wrong in thinking that about our committment on that level. He says what was so painful for him to break up with me (not cheat on me) was that I am his family- that was the hardest part he said. Even now, he says he thinks it would be easier if I just left but he doesn't know why he won't help me pack.
He started to see a psychologist- only one visit so far so no ahas but brought some attention to him thinking he might have a committment issue- leased cars, rent houses, didn't marry me. Both of our parents our divorced (affairs) so I think there is a lot going on in our heads. Also, we didn't grow up in communicative families so when something was wrong, it didn't get addressed by us. I see that we weren't meeting each other's needs. That I did my part to push him away, imagining that he'd realize that was my way of looking for reassurance. Now, that it is so clear to me, I just think we should try to get back the family feeling and bring it to the next level by doing the things on MB. It seems old boyfriends learn from mistakes with me and get to try it out on someone new- this time I want to have the learnings apply to us.
In terms of emot. investment, we sleep in separate rooms now. I try to not talk about A all the time, when I do he answers my questions and listens to what I say. I make dinner and try to have a normal conversation. But, it's pretty one sided. Somehow I think him asking if I need anything from store when he goes out is a step in the right direction. From what I read, it seems like I can't expect much more right now.
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Yes, I reviewed the article and agree with it's content. Having been on both side of these issues (married relationship and nonmarried relationship) I would have to agree with the Dr. that's it is better to marry and not live together first. Which I have no intention (living with someone and not being married) of doing that. Learning from my pass mistakes. Yes I agree people should not live together first, it does hurt the relationship.
ME:46 DS:15 DS:12 In a relationship w/NPD for 17 yrs. ended:05/22/06: Thank you God! Mark Twain: "As I got older, my father got smarter"
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sag06, Well, I hate to think that because we lived together for 11 years that that is the reason why I should give up. If this affair could be a catalyst to improvement (regardless of living together or not), I just want to know how to get through the waiting period more patiently. I can't change that we've lived together. Should I just keep telling myself that he is going to IC now, that he agreed to go joint counseling after more IC and just try not to be angry when we are together and try not to talk about 'us?' It is hard to be patient especially with Christmas coming. Thanks.
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if you love him....you don't give up
nothing else really matters
you just need a good plan to help you get through it the best you can with the most success possible
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Last night I read alot more about Plan A and feel a little stronger about being patient. Just read an old post where someone said not sleeping in same bed with WS was not good. He started sleeping on couch (habit of falling asleep there but usually he came to bed, then he stopped) even before D-day (11/26/06). After D Day we would discuss the R, he would leave and go to her house- 2-3 days.
I told him to stop running, to just stay on the couch and I wouldn't bug him. Just wanted to know he wasn't with her. 3 days after D day, he said he needed counselling. I had been talking to him about it even before D day. I think the how affairs start article that I read to him hit him.
Since then he has stayed home but has contact- work together, emails, phone. I straightened the spare room so he could stay there. I thought it was impt. for him to have his space and feel welcome- that is part of Plan A, right? He said he has no emotions now, told his psychologist doesn't feel sad.
I didn't think sleeping in separate rooms was bad at this point. Is it? We don't even hug each other even when I get upset. Should I ask him to come to bed just because? I really understand since D day why he was sleeping with his back to me for so long before that (PA). Thanks. blind_hope
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Help. I knew WS was still talking to OW. They work together and he told me she called last week because she was concerned as to how he was doing. Tonight, he was late coming home. I was trying so hard to be positive. I've been doing plan A and felt less angry over the last several days (D Day- 11/26). I left house to go to a Christmas concert and drove by her house even though I told myself I just need to stop and trust him. Saw him sitting on front porch with her. I pulled in driveway. Asked to talk to him. He came to car. I told him he needed to leave now. I said to OW- thanks for destroying a 14 year relationship. She said I didn't destroy anything. I said you didn't respect it. I should have said he lied to you too but I wasn't thinking clearly. I was so angry when I left. He left a few minutes later and I yelled at him at home. I said she wanted to know if we were sleeping in same bed and if you hugged me, right? He laughed and asked if there was a textbook because that is exactly what she wanted to know. I said she is just figuring out her chances of getting you back. He said she called him and asked him to stop by. That he feels no emotion for her or me. That he felt bad I saw him there since I don't deserve that pain. (6 months of pain that I wasn't aware of apparently doesn't matter). So, yes, I lovebusted and knew I was doing it. I said I felt like we were taking some steps forward not being so angry with each other and now it is a step back. He says it isn't- that they just talked. I said you can't go there every time she calls to make her feel like she still can get you. He says we need to start joint counseling, to come to some resolution. I asked if he did this just to make me leave- he says no. I told him he needs to consider the positive and negative withdrawals he is making. So, I guess I violated all the Plan A rules. Then, we talked about my psychol. visit today and his yesterday- mostly about our families growing up. Maybe all this isn't worth it. One of my distant friends (the kind you just email a few times a year, so can tell them anything) told me maybe I just needed to "cut my losses." Do you ever feel so confused that you almost can't remember why you even love(d) the WS? Or is that confusion just my signal to leave? blind_hope
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Confusion isn't your signal to leave. Angry outbursts are. He just went ot her house to talk, and so that's OK? He's in a fog, and the best way for him to get out of the fog is: 1) You expose to family and work, and 2) You go into Plan B.
Respectful
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OW is stink and stupid. Now given that 'fact', you stay away from the filth. She has to find out? Hm...more like a ploy.
I would think you are more fed up and highly disappointed. Don't worry about LBing or breaking plan A. Your reaction is normal.
Now go tell him to get his act together BEFORE he comes to YOUR home. He isn't a valuable family member at this time. He needs to prove he is worthy of being a part of YOUR family.
Time to shift into high gear.....think about plan B. R U ready? Is your mind and heart in sync?
Give yourself some cooling down time. ID your boundaries. Get your finances lined up and implement plan B.
Expect the OW to try again. But remember she is stink and doesn't have what it takes to hold onto any man.
I recall PBR (psycho babble rabbit) - the OW in my case....calling me to 'brag' about her contact with the WS. I asked her how come she can't hold onto him. Then I told her that I wasn't keeping him home so how come she can't do a better job of watching him?!?!?! LOL!!! Talk about relief....the OW was baffled. She certainly didn't expect me to have that kind of response but by that time, I was strong enough to babble back real good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
L.
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I've been in your shoes... except the confrontation with the OM happened the day after I proposed to her... she was laying on the couch with her "friend." I have been an BH and I have been the betrayed fiance (two seperate things). IMHO, there is no difference... save for one thing... you can walk away now without financial or legal entanglements. I would suggest that you do just that. You BF is not worth the effort and since he has shown himself to be unfaithful in the trial run... why bother going any further. I know that doesn't help the hurt to your heart... but really, what would you tell your daughter... marry the guy and hopefully he will stop being a cheat. I lived that lie myself and put up with the fiances lies and took her back countless numbers of times (we had a child together that complicated things). She is now gone, I have custody and life is great... there are people out there that will treat you great... but first thing, I had to treat myself that way by not ever agin tolerating the [email]cr@p[/email] that comes along with a cheater. It will be hard, make no mistake about that... but you will be better off in the long run to send him packing. If you decide to stay... PRENUP! One that allows you to walk away with everything should he ever cheat again. Good luck,
MEDC
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3 votes for plan B????...but I just started to figure out how to do Plan A. Isn't it too quick for Plan B? I know the A wasn't my fault but I know I contributed to the environment that made him feel alone along with our circumstances of living in diff. states for 6 months prior due to job change. We weren't communicating. We denied there was a problem just like our divorced (affairs) parents did and hoped it would go away without confronting it, then the A happened and it got really messed up.
"hopefully he will stop being a cheat"- is not what I hope for- I thought it was about addressing the problem so he won't want to cheat again.
"Are my heart and mind in sync?" Honestly, it seems there is so much convoluted stuff in my mind and heart- anger, hurt, frustration, whatever that I can't clearly remember right now what it felt like when things were good. It has been a year between the A and us living apart due to work since we were even connected. So, no they aren't in sync because I can't state what they feel. I just know that I have alot invested and staying until we talk about the unnamed problem before the A and knowing we wouldn't have "fixed it" is what keeps me here. But, sometimes I wonder if its worth it. He (WS) started to go to a psychol. and last night said we need to start going together, that he doesn't want this to drag on. He says he doesn't know what has kept him from cutting the last thread holding us together either. I told him I think we just need to cut thru the clutter of the A and just "be" with each other until we can speak the good and the bad we had. Then, we can know if it is worth the effort to save it. But that's not Plan B....I just feel too disconnected to do plan B. Sept.- Feb. we lived in different states. May the A started and it was downhill from there. blind_hope
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Just so that I am clear... my thoughts are not in any way suggesting that I think Pln B would be appropriate here... the plan that I think is best right now is the plan that has you leave him and begin you life with someone else (down the road after you have healed of course). I just wanted to make sure that you knew that was my thoughts.
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After Friday night, WS told me he is in NC (except for working together). He plays pool on Wed. nights. I called him on cell to tell him I would leave dinner out and OW answered his cell. Acted like she didn't know who it was though my name appeared on caller ID. I asked who it was. She said her name and asked who I was. Then, said Oh, Hi (my name). I thought it was a joke...I asked for him. I asked him who the h___ that was and he said someone he plays pool with- told him what she said her name was and why would someone say that. Said he had no idea and that he was leaving to come home. I was furious, and wondered what to believe. He told me she showed up at bar- she has other friends that go there, but that he didn't give her the cold shoulder. Said his phone was on a shelf and she claimed she thought it was hers. I said my name would show up- and told him what she said. He said he didn't believe her and that it was a %#@ move to pick up the phone. He admitted though they weren't dating before tonight that she was still his friend (unbelievable that he truly believes she is concerned for him and not just trying to make sure he goes back to her). But after picking up the phone, no longer friends. I tell him this is another example of her winning and him and me losing- that she gets the satisfaction of knowing the distance between us is increasing because she knows in my mind (regardless of whatever the truth is) they were together. I told him this is why people quit and move. He said he feels no emotion for her or me- that he just "wants off this ride" and to be left alone. I told him if this is what it took to get him to realize she doesn't respect his position to go to couple's counseling and to IC, that she is just sabotaging any hope, then I am glad it happened- that maybe this will lift the fog. Do you think so? We start couple's counseling tomorrow- not Dr. Harley, someone local- a psychologist but not Lic. Marriage and Family. Blind_hope
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Former waywards affair has ended. They see each other at work- but the calls and text messages seem to have stopped. He admits they had no future, that he made bad decisions, even said sleeping with her was a mistake. We go to joint counseling and individual counselling and it is clear we had a huge problem with intimate, emotional communication (our needs, addressing conflict, denying problems existed). I have made some changes and become more open, and he says he sees the change.
However, he also says he doesn't believe relationships can be fixed. That you have to feel something to want it. He says he has no emotions for me (or his former mistress). That he wants no affection, feels no desire or intimacy. That he knows he has issues (communication, selfishness, avoiding confrontation) and he just doesn't know. So, many of his responses to things I tell him or ask him- are "I don't know." or "I don't care."
I tell him unless we do something to restore love, we won't feel it. That it is a vicious circle and right now we have barriers and habits that don't support feeling love. So, he can't wait for that. But, he doesn't buy in to that. He says he thinks he should feel sorrow, feel remorse, feel like asking me for forgiveness, in order for him to think he wants to work it out with me.
Is it normal for a former wayward to not feel all that? Dday was 11/26/06. Believed they could be friends for about a month after that. But seems to be over that concept now.
blind_hope
Last edited by blind_hope; 01/26/07 11:24 PM.
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Any chance of him quitting his job? Once NC is achieved he will go through withdrawl and begin to "feel" again.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49 DS 30 DD 21 DS 15 OCDS 8
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