OK, I think plenty of people here know A LOT of what goes into an affair, withdrawal, and recovery...the subject line is largely an attempt to get people to read this thread.

That being said, I see some common conflicting advice on these boards. There are two in particular that I see again and again:

#1 - The early burden after DDay is on the WS vs. The early burden after DDay is on the BS.

SIDE A: Some "recovery" threads will talk about how the WS is suffering great pain, but that will need to be put aside while the WS does everything he/she can to help BS heal and trust again. These threads usually assume that the WS is begging for forgiveness and asking to be taken back by the BS.

SIDE B: Other "recovery" threads assume that either the A is ongoing, or that the WS was extremely unhappy in the M in the first place so therefore even if the A is over has no desire to work on the M. Therefore the burden of rebuilding the M falls completely on the BS, usually in the form of a Plan A.

My Take: I see validity in the advice given on both sides, but I don't think the posters often make it clear what the key variables are. As far as I can see, they are 1) is A over or ongoing? 2) how long has the A been over? 3) how intense were the emotions in the A? 4) how long did the A last? 5) Was the BS a H or W? (it seems that the WH usually does more begging to be taken back into the marriage with the "it was just sex" argument).

This basically comes down to "whomever wants the marriage more will need to do a lot of the work". This may be the WS or the BS, depending largely on the 5 factors above. My guess is that most WW's do not much want the M, or at least think they don't early on, so all the early heavy lifting will need to be done by the BH. So when one of us BH's reads a thread on this site detailing all the work that the WW should be doing to recover the M or make their BS feel safe, we can only scoff and think "if only".

What I don't know is how this dynamic changes over time. If a BS Plan A's for 3 months, and does all the heavy lifting in recovery, the WS may come to want and depend on the M more and more while the BS may become frustrated with keeping the "Taker" suppressed for so long. At that point, the power dynamic would flip and you may go from SIDE B to SIDE A above. The WS would now need to heal the BS and bring the BS back into the M. Hopefully H and W can reach an equilibrium where both are working hard on the M and are committed to meeting each other's EN's without these underlying power struggles factoring in.

#2 - "Don't leave your house" vs. "Plan B your WS"

SIDE A: You as the BS must never move out of your home because it will hurt your chances at custody of the children. Plus, WS is the one having an A. Let him or her move out. Everyone seems to consistently agree with this wisdom.

SIDE B: You've been in Plan A for 3-6 months. WS is still engaging in C or full EA/PA behavior. It's time for Plan B. But wait! You can't leave your house. And everyone agrees that WS is having many needs met at home (even if he/she doesn't realize it) and enjoys the fence sitting at the cost of the BS. So why would WS leave, especially when there's children? So you are to Plan B and eliminate all contact with WS, yet WS won't leave the house and BS can't leave the house. I don't get it.

My Take: It looks like there are 2 ways to Plan B. 1) You ask WS to leave and they leave. 2) WS doesn't leave so you begin legal separation procedings. This I assume could possibly mean selling the house, finding apartments, and arranging a legal custody schedule for the children, so it's about as drastic as a D. That wasn't my original understanding of Plan B, but it seems to be the only solution to the conflicting advice above. It sure would make recovering from a Plan B much harder when you don't even have a common home to return to, and it would devastate the children.


Thoughts? Am I misinterpreting some of the advice?

NS

how's that recovery going?

Pep

NS,

Would you consider who the poster is, either WS or BS, will change the advice on who does the heavy lifting? Whoever is here...matters. Which may seem contradictory advice, isn't.

No one size fits all...

And mixing the Plan B...the BS is advised to not leave the house; the WS, if they are here, wanting to end their A and recovery their marriage...well, I haven't seen any one of them want to leave nor wanting their BS to leave.

And the rule of thumb for a BS is to Plan B their WS; Plan A their spouse. That's Orchid's. Helps to distinguish which one you're talking to...changes sometimes minute by minute.

In the horrifically painful cake-eating situation you describe...where the WS carries on their A and refuses to leave the house nor end their A...then legal steps to get the WS out of the house and then going to Plan B seems advisable. If they are renting their home, I usually advise the BS to leave with the children...if they own, it's tougher...and putting a for sale sign in front of the house has appealed to me. Might just be me.

Of course, I believed in tracking and snooping...have advised having an all-extended family infidelity intervention...I showed up with my children and flowers when WH was at work (he worked with OW)...bringing reality anyway one can...without LBing. I sent flowers to his work after our first MC session...with no envelope on the card which said, "Dearest Husband...Thank you for working on our marriage. I love you. Your wife." OW raved and wanted him to throw them away. He called to thank me. I'd never done that before.

I was honestly grateful...a week later, he broke it off with OW...though that didn't stick that long...and he's continued the MC for over two years...which is awesome. I can't emphasize enough how important MC is to Plan A...it's huge...needs a great counselor who believes deeply in human marriages...and respects.

I don't know how far I would have gone in my attempts if he had remained a WS and continued his A...I attribute him choosing to recovery solely to who DH truly is.

Many steps between Plan A before Plan B...exposure is important...and the WS sometimes does leave then...did in my case...and I remained in Plan A while he lived away.

I see the clear choice of Plans and timing to be from the standpoint of honesty and truth...exposure is sharing it, Plan A is living in it, and Plan B is a deep boundary enforcement exampling what marriage means to the BS.

Using honesty as a guide, I think all the steps work...they did for my marriage.

I don't assume a WS posting here is begging for forgiveness...I tend to show how assumptions got them where they are...

And how personal recovery, either for the WS or the BS, starts before real recovery can even be negotiated.

LA

If I had any idea what I was talking about why would I be here in the first place.

It's an exceptionally rare BS who will be begging for forgiveness on D-Day.

U see this as a discrepancy? Take another look.

What is posted here are people in difference, places and situations. What works for one may not work for another.

The task is to find what works and implement it.

Do we know what we are talking about? Sometimes, often....yes. All the time? Of course not. Not even those who are paid to know, know.

So what is your reason for asking? Instant, guaranteed answer? No can do.

Helpful suggestions which have worked? Valuable tools which may be overlooked? Common sense? Yes, yes & yes.

oh yea.... all of this was JMHO, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

NS,

I tend to know what I'm talking about. However, there are some mornings that I put my shoes on the wrong feet.

My FWH is one of the rare birds who begged for forgiveness on d-day. His world crashed the moment I found out - truly. He was in a "sex for the sake of sex" relationship with a woman I knew, and I personally can verify that this was the case. I know her, know her lifestyle, and the fact is, she has a very unique attitude regarding sex. This drew him in and wrapped him up, and actually was the major part of her attraction. Combined with several other factors in his life at the time, and our marriage, when she was added to the mix - well, "no-brainer" completely describes the situation. Neither of them had any brains.....I digress.

It seems relatively simple to me to explain why you see so many different perspectives, threads, forms of advice, approaches, etc., on this site.

There are many different situations, and while each affair generally follows a "script", each enters the site at a different stage, with different needs, different emotional states, different perspectives (BS, WS), different details. And the major factor: Different people.

That last one makes a huge difference, IMHO. The poster him/herself makes a difference in the advice that will come forth, don't you think? If the poster comes across as someone who will follow advice, and does so, then the advice will follow a certain track. If the poster is an emotional wreck, the advice will focus there. If the poster is needing advice regarding how to Plan A, the thread will go that route.

So, maybe everybody knows what they are talking about. They are all just talking about different "stuff". And the same stuff at different times. To different people. In different ways.

Same thing.

SB

NS:

I guess if we always did, we wouldn't be here, now would we?

IMVHO

I have no idea what I am talking about! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The truth is, not all cheaters are created equal. Yes, the fog is there pretty much across the board.

But let me give you an example, in the form of my mother, who is indicative of at least one remorseful WS on this board that I have seen.

Mom was a talented and pretty (resembled Vivian Leigh) just-turned-18 yr old when my dad met her. Though she hadn't seen her mother and father fight, it wasn't the ideal relationship. She'd been encouraged by her father to "be" smart - and back in the post depression years, that wasn't much heard of. Mom was headstrong and confident before the wedding. After the wedding - about 3 weeks, dad started the hatchet job on her heart when he hit her and yelled and profaned. She asked him where her sweetheart went - he said "Married people don't act that way."

Fast forward 15 years of this kind of treatment. Mom still has the wit and sarcasm, but craves validation that she's attractive and "wanted". She's a sitting duck for the first man who doesn't make a pass at her out the gate - someone who comes across as "safe to talk to".

Even while she was cheating on my dad, she was more invested in the marriage relationship than he was. So dad still had the most power to harm the marriage. (If you've ever seen your mother tossed against the stove while she was cooking breakfast - because it wasn't fast enough - or heard your father raping your mother - only then would you understand the degree to which he didn't care - and why I feel that my father's behavior was worse than my mother's infidelity).

KaylaAndy, thank you for sharing your story. It does very clearly highlight that while A's tend to follow a general pattern, everyone's situation has unique characteristics. I left out financial considerations in my list of factors. I assume your mother stayed with your father due to financial dependency? Or was she steadfastly opposed to ever leaving the marriage due to moral or religious beliefs?

To everyone else: Thanks for posting. I truly meant no offense with the subject line. I thought it might draw a lot of traffic to have a slightly antagonistic subject.

I have great respect for the community here. The MB site and the posters here, and the wonderfully helpful Mr. and Mrs. Wondering literally saved my life as well as (hopefully!) my marriage.

NS

NS,

Yeah...okay...but what about your first post? Do you have answers to your questions or seem them differently?

LA