medc,

Ouch. You certainly made quite a jump to get to that conclusion. Maybe you should go and read some of my story before you rush to judgement.

My wife and I are very sorry for our affairs but at the same time I’m thankful that we went through what we did. What I wanted to get across in my post was that I understood what the author meant when she said the affairs taught her something about her marriage.

I am a Christian, haven’t always been a good one, but going through all of this has greatly strengthened my relationship with God. Like I said in my original post, my wife and I teach a marriage class in our church. The curriculum was developed by Jo Beam and uses HN/HN as it’s core but incorporates scripture and Christian values. We have stood before thousands of people at our church and shared our story numerous times hoping that it will help folks….and it has. This is why I’m not sorry for the “experiences” that I have lived because they have helped others.

When all this was happening my counselor read to me the first few verses of the book of James. These verses gave me strength to get through the next hour, the next day and the next month...

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

God has used us and our experiences to bless others and bless us and for that I am thankful.


So when I put God Bless at the end of every post I mean it.

God Bless,

Doug

I believe in redemption to a certain point. I must point out to you all, I am still very bitter about what happened to me. I was the innocent party in all of this, I took care of all the housework, the kids, all the cooking, all while the STBXW ran up the credit cards, and having her A with this other MM. Redemption is something I do believe in, but I do not believe that once an A has been introduced into a M, there is no going back to how it was before. There is no going back to the ultimate trust I once had with her, no going back to seeing her as my W. The trust would only last until the next time she was on the phone in another room, or late getting home, or wants to go out again and insists on going without me.

I am very new to betrayal, and very new to divorce. I am the first one in my entire family to ever divorce, there is a very steep learning curve I am trying to climb, her, her family divorces every time something gets a bit tough, and she knows more about it than I could ever hope to.

I believe, (no personal offense intended to anyone out there) that it takes a certain level, low level of morality to not draw the line at anything more than friendship. Affairs happen when something is encouraged, and that little voice in your head tells you it's wrong, and you actively choose to hide your feelings from your H/W. I was the betrayed one, and I admit I don't understand why dropping your pants for another person other than your spouse is supposed to ever be forgiven or worked through.

Redemption, I do believe in it, but only to a certain point. The bonds of marriage, imo, are gone as soon as the betrayal is done, either emotionally or physically. The minute the 2 decided to unstrap my children's car seats and toss them in back, I was no longer married. She gave herself to another man, and I was just an obstacle between her and this other thing with a ... you know.

Oh, and if your A happens because something is missing in your life, in your marriage, you should be communicating that with your husband or wife, not finding it elsewhere and hoping no one finds out.

LA...
I respect your opinion and frankly if I were a FWS in addition to a BS I might see things differently.

Perhaps if you had said what part you agreed with in the first place, I would not have come to that conclusion. No assumptions on my part... just a response to your words as written.
And I will say the same thing to you that I did to LA... if I were a FWS I might see things your way. In as much as I am not, I do not share in the responsibility for the affair and see nothing positive that comes from them. Learning from sin in my way of thinking should not make the victim of your crime thankful that you did it. Would you feel the same way of you shot someone... raped them... killed them.... heck those experiences would have brought you to where you are... sorry, I am not buying this line of thinking, but you have the right to yours.

Kuky,

Thank you for sharing more. How do you feel about ultimate trust now? Is that like blind-trust that Harley talks about?

Bitter scares me...I grew up in a bitter household...bitter to me is petrified resentment, entitlement...and like those, I imprisoned myself with them.

Felt secure...at the cost of living.

Low level of morality...I didn't understand morals...I yearned for them, for a code to live by...only one I had was to please others. Be safe through pleasing. Earn love. Didn't know I chose my beliefs...that humans lived from their beliefs, not their feelings. I lived from my feelings.

Feelings told me The Truth, not my truth. I lived backwards.

There was no little voice telling me cheating was wrong...my H introduced others into our relationship before and after marriage...his voice was real...and pleasing was my morality. I am the daughter of a serial cheater...from an extended family of affair marriages...I knew my father was an adulterer when I was five or six...a decade before I knew what sex was...and my sister had affairs, as well.

She brought her OM home to Christmas one year.

This isn't me excusing...it is explaining where what we know at the time is all we know...and when we know better, the onus is on us to DO better.

Sounds like this is opposite what you experienced...and you're going through the unknown, thrust into it, and you're here, to make sense of it.

There is no sense to it. It is what it is...and humans are...and they change and grow and don't. Humans do and don't. What I hear you saying is that you mourn not being able to go back to the marriage you had pre-A...and I'm asking you to consider this same woman, from a family of divorce, was the same woman. Your choice to not see her as your W is solely yours. I respect that. I wanted to insert the choice word there because the "There is no going back" has no ownership.

Not blame.

Do you believe you can find a woman in the future who protects you through her morals? Would you accept a FWS who got to her morals, would be faithful, valuing herself and you, equally? Do you know why you were attracted and chose your W?

"The bonds of marriage, imo, are gone as soon as the betrayal is done, either emotionally or physically."

This same statement is a raiontalization used often by WS's to have their affair..."I was done with him before I started my A." Neither is truth to me...I draw the line now that we are married until a judge says we aren't...that there are three parts to marriage...me, him and The Marriage. I believe this because my marriage was full of fantasy...my marriage, by your definition, would have been undone the day after our vows, given my DH's fantasy life in his head...and within a few months, in mine.

I believe marriage is stronger than these lines...a place to grow side by side...how I respect how deep and strong the bounds of marriage really are...and that we choose to stay married, like we choose to love, every day.

I believe marriage is made new continually...because the two partners are...

And I don't believe your WW chose an affair for physical reasons. I deeply believe affairs are entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. How that manifests differs, person to person. And her A had nothing to do with you. Like all of her choices...out of your control.

What's missing in a WS is IN a them as a person. Where they perceive, ferment and solidify lack...so will they experience it. They don't truly lack. They are as whole, complete and marvelously made by the same hands as you are Kuky. Their perception is drastically different. They can choose to perceiving differently...which is how people change.

Thank you for reading, considering and sharing...I share my journey with you because of my fear...had I divorced, I would have recreated. I know this. I believe you do not desire to recreate, to find yourself back again, three or four years down the line, betrayed. My Ouch was from inside me, not as a hit to me only, but one to you. If you choose to believe it's the person you marry which protects you from infidelity (of the mind, body or spirit), then you may well recreate.

Knowing the true anatomy of waywardness...finding where you self-betray, as well as others...can bring your wholeness past a moral commitment. It's part of it, from who you are, not all of it.

My concern was for you not stopping at the first layer. My concern is genuine. Redemption isn't about God saying, "Okay, you're forgiven" because he already did that. Redemption is about self-forgiveness...a much harder road...no matter what it looks like from the outside...on the inside, it is rough to get to, harder to keep...takes a daily commitment.

MEDC,

If nothing positive cannot come from something...no matter how tiny...then you hit a black hole...an ending point to God's design...you reach an unforgiveable act. The truest death. What do you do with the corpses?

(And thank you very much for reminding me that I have a FWW and a BW perspective...and no, I don't wish that on you, ever. Not even if it got you to agree with all my beliefs, 24/7...tempting, though.)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA