FF,

Need your input...

WH doing lots of talk about how it would ever be possible to recover???...wanting to return but having so many fears...being so close to divorce is it worth it to even try or would we mess the kids up worse now that they are used to dad living away etc...

He explained he is not locked into any lease etc and doesn't want to rush into anything b/c he does not want to end M but doesn't know if we can get through all the dung and succeed given the long history

We have had some very serious discussion back and forth over the past weeks alot of it triggered by my backslide having SF with WH several weeks ago...

All of the questions that Pio has been asking himself lately my WH and I have been discussing aloud together.

I have been painfully honest with WH as to what my expectations would be if he ever returned. Recently I have been providing info on what I would need if we are to ever recover. I have told him the only way I see us being able to rebuild is to first deal with the past...I have lots of unanswered questions that I need to deal with before I could ever start to rebuild trust.

I described my position as being in unknown enemy territory...completely defensive, hostile until proven I can trust and am safe, seemingly paranoid but with good reason as I can't see the enemy or know from where they are coming...I am in survival and self-preservation mode.

I requested that I would need to know the root of the problem for why all the A's, what pupose they served and what needs they met if I am ever to be able to meet these needs. If he doesn't know then that is an area with much needed IC or MC in order to navigate those waters

I identified that I have tons of triggers and would need patience, love, reassurance and time to work through these.

I made it clear that I thought all of this was possible with his support and willingness to do what it takes to get through this dark and challenging chapter to work toward R.

I think I scared the begeebers out of him...recently if I don't get back in touch with him quickly he gets insecure and lashes out and blurts out "we are done"...then he thinks a while, calms down apologizes and we actually move one step forward...

I have provided painfully honest info on what frightens me, what I need and how I still don't believe certain things...I want him to know what to expect and what he would be dealing with if he serioiusly wants to try to recover...I don't think it is fair to either of us to just try and jump back in without addressing the big elephants and agreeing on how we will tackle the issue of R.

I want him to be 100% informed if he is considering return...I don't want WH to be able to come home for "convenience" say he couldn't do it and go back to where he is now. I know there are no guarantees but I need as close to one as there is with him being fully informed of the facts/conditions/boundaries before a true plan could be entertained.

I backed all of this up with encouragement that I would do whatever it takes on my end to be sure if we tried this it would be only with the goal of achieving a truly superb marriage relationship...that I was aware of the challenge but that with both willing to work and the help of God we could overcome this...

All the while I am fearful that there is an underlying alterior motive on his part but I guess that goes with the territory...he could have easily made choices that locked him into positions and he chose not to...more cake eating or really just allowing time to decide on how to proceed??? Who knows. I have the dissolution paperwork done on my end and he has his part to do. We decided to complete it and hold on to it so that if it comes down to D, all that is left is filing. I made it clear this is not what I want.

Am I totally off and pushing him further away by providing this information? He already is very aware of the deal breaker of O & H which has been a roadblock for him as he has refused to agree with it...I just don't see the point in wasting time, emotion and energy if he isn't aware of what amount of damage and what would be required for us to recover. Not saying that I wouldn't have as much work or need as much just laying it out there in fairness to both of us...

What are your thoughts?

2much, my thoughts? Whatever you do don't let him move back in until you are 100 percent sure you are in recovery. As you know, I made that mistake over and over. Fortunately, my DD was not aware of all that was going on. Would he agree to counsel with Steve Harley? Have Harley set up homework for the two of you and if your WH follows through with every hurdle Steve gives him I would see that as his willingness to do what it takes to come back to the M. On your side, you could be willing to delay the D while giving him the time to prove himself. No more SF and continue with whatever visitation you have set up for the kids. You may if you feel up to even go on occasional "dates" with your WH, again with no SF. But the biggest question I have for you 2much? What do YOU want at this point. If you follow the above, I believe you will protect yourself and the kids from any false R's and false hopes but you have to be honest with yourself all the way. I am around if you need to talk. My email addy is in my profile. I don't check into the board as often as I used. {{2much}}

One more question, 2. Where is WH right now with his faith? Is he willing to bend his knee to God's will for his life?

I also suggest you give him the book "After the Affair" by Janis Abrahms to read. Very good book for a wayward that is willing to peak inside themselves IMHO.

FF,

Thank you for your input. Actually WH and I discussed the "dating" option...I thought about SH as an option...at this point I would think it is worth the $$ which is not abundant in 2muchville...I would not let him return until he was able to prove himself to some extent. I am terrified of false R and am not completely convinced that WH is really wanting to R or just withdrawal symptoms from cake eating deprivation.

I am soooooo at a crossroads FF. Half of me wants to call it quits and move on but the other half keeps telling me to be patient and not push that things will work themselves out in time and that my actions are not helping the sitch.

I see WH interest in the possibilities but not seeing what I would need to in order to R...maybe I am impatient

WH has been away from the church for close to a decade now...this has been a huge issue with us since it was originally what joined us together...WH has even commented lately that at least if I D it opens up the opportunity for me to find a man that lives up to my spiritual expectations since WH states he knows he let me down in that area...would be be willing to turn to God at this point...my guess is no, he turned from God after a sequence of traumatic life events. He may have his own personal relationship but I doubt it is what it could be as he has consistently poked fun at me over the years calling me a "bible beater" and trying to avoid religious topics. He has not attended church with us except for 2 Holidays each year and when the kids receive sacraments for the first time.

What do I want...an intact family, the comfort and security of trust, a husband and father for my children, someone who supports, comforts, provides and battles along side me for the rest of my days, a best friend, confidante, playmate, studybuddy...

Oh, what do I want to do about this messed up sitch? I guess I don't know myself yet:( I don't want to close any doors permanently but I don't want a revolving door either. I don't want to do anything that causes more damage but I want to be clear on what I won't tolerate.

I just wanted to see what you thought about the info I'm giving him and if you think it is fruitless, counterproductive or could possibly help later down the road.

I also have to say that there is the possibility that I am throwing all this ammo out there hoping that maybe I'll push him into declaring an end and then the burden is not on me...

Yeah, pretty messed up at this point. I thought after 9 months of H$LL that I would be at a clearer more definitive point...I guess limbo has it's benefits

thanks ff

No, I don't think what you are giving him is fruitless. I think you are being exactly what you want him to be. Open, honest and willing to change. Very admirable qualities.

[q]I also have to say that there is the possibility that I am throwing all this ammo out there hoping that maybe I'll push him into declaring an end and then the burden is not on me... [/q] This is good for introspection and really being truthful with yourself.

I understand your wanting to not close any doors just yet. You don't have to, and you can still be careful to not get hurt again. Check and double check that you are not getting your hopes up by seeing/hearing what you want to see/hear in his words/actions. Sometimes just posting to let others read the situation helps.

Limbo can have its benefits as long as you don't let it go on too long. I think being in limbo too long can bring about despair and I don't want that for you, my friend.

Invest wisely. I think C with Harley is the wisest investment you can make right now.

As always that you FF...I don't fit the traditional MB mold so it makes it hard to follow the secret formula:)

I appreciate your support, encouragement and honesty,

2mhb

No worries, that formual doesn't work for me either though I heartily embrace and believe in Harley's methods. They don't work on men like ours.

'nother question for you. You say O & H has been a roadblock for him, is that still the case or is he willing to make that change? Given his history I see no point if he cannot agree to this one very important concept. I know he could fall in love with you again, but can he hold himself accountable?