My story is so much like a lot of others on this board. I am very new here and appreciate and help in hoping to gain a grip on my situation.

I could go into a long a drawn out background on us, but I would rather ust leave it to the folowing facts. My wife is a stay at home mom to our three children 8, 6, &3; very attractive; she is the product of a nasty divorce at the age of 7-8, Her mother and father frequently used her and her sister as pawns to the point where my wife stopped talking to her father, who a few years later died suddenly shortly after the birth of our first; She considered her sister to be her best friend growing up and when her sis entered high school, she started developing a series of life long mental illnesses. We have been married 9 happy years and have been together 15. Money and sex have never been an issue and we frequently go out together on dates and have a lot of fun.

The problem developed about 9 months ago when I asked a client and friend of mine to renovate our bathroom. We'll call this guy Ed. Ed is 17 years older than my wife, 12 years older than me. He is married 27 years with two older kids, he is no exactly anything to look at - overweight, yellow teeth, cigar smoker, yet is famous for being for being someone who makes "friendly" connections with many women. He is very open about that fact and does have many women friends and even his best friends wives fool around with him in ways that many folks on the outside would think would be inappropriate.

Well my wife (and myself to a degree) kinda feel into becoming very friendly with him. We even had him babysit our kids for an hour or so one night. I did however start to notice changes in behavior with my wife. Both of us do have friends and such and do go out quite often for drinks independantly of one another. In the begginning my wife would joke somewhat to Ed about them having to go out for a drink. They are both Polish and my wife felt very comfortable talking with him.

I get the cell bill for my wife's phone and noticed that as months grew on they started talking quite often and even texting one another. A few things happened that triggered thoughts that there may be more to this.

One night she said she was going out with a girlfriend whom she had just went out with a couple of nights earlier. She went to this bar, which she told me about, and Ed just so happen to stop in - which she also told me. Turns out she didn't get home that night until 3:30 in the morn - I was still up and she immediately came in a took a shower claiming she smelled of cig smoke from her girlfriend's smoking - even though smoking is not allowed in the bar.Ed when asked claimed he was not even in the bar that long as he was working and my wife said she was mainly talking to people in the bar - mind you she told me her girlfriend left a lot earlier than she did.

Another time Ed stopped in to go over some work stuff on the house claiming that he was waiting for his son to call. Meanwhile my wife was getting ready to go out upstairs - She has always gone out to stores etc. at night claiming that she needs her time away from the house because she is their all day with the kids - so I never had a problem with her going out. This time however I believed that she was the one who called him bc when his phone rang he disconnected quickly - the person on the other end never spoke - and Ed left shortly after followed by my wife a few mins later.

All of the above things we had fights about. All the while my wife was somewhat in the open about Ed - when she talked to him, saw him etc. But other things she seemed to keep private - erasing his/her calls on her phone and txt messages, etc.

I did confront Ed early on about my concerns in his own backyard around his best friend - with his wife a my wife a few feet away. Ed said that he only considers my wife a friend - just like his best friend's wife who he said used to get a little annoyed but is now fine with things. He said he looks at my wife as if it was his daughter.

My wife is also in pretty good shape and she started walking every night for upwards of 2 hours. I kinda felt that she wasn't being completely truthful and one night I loaded up the kids and went out claiming I had to get something from her. She wasn't completely on the level with her location and once I did meet up with her - I lingered around driving and seen him driving around and at one point my wife appeared to be waiting for him after I left. I never did completely catch the two of them together that night and of course they both denied ever seeing one another.

Through the months I kinda felt at ease with the whole thing and kind of understood the whole friend thing.We have had him over our house (w/o his wife) many times and would spend many nights hanging out in my kitchen - Ed, my wife, and myself. I was really trying to come to grips with the fact that my wife had for the first time in our relationship a "male" friend. She claimed it was great bc she could talk to him about thingss that gave her a different perspective from her other girlfriend. I also said at one time that the relationship is almost like "father-figure" like in a way - and I got so comfortable with the friendship that I even agreed twice to them going out for drinks - why? I guess I was trusting and comfortable. She would always come home and tell me the details, etc. The first time that they did go out it was even funny that she told me that the bartender asked Ed what his "daughter" wanted to drink. We all laughed about that and again I had my bad moments when I didn't like the whole situation but I did send out a lot of mixed signals - hanging out with Ed, having him over my house, etc.

Another hing to add is that Ed loves the subject of psychology. He said he had issues years ago and seen a brilliant psychologist who ended up being his mentor. He even claims to have helped many people/friends with their issues - even both him and my wife saying that they frequently had talked about her past and many of her issues that even my wife and I had dealt with/talked about for many years. I never showed any sort of apathy to her issues, I just could not always help her. Some of the concepts that Ed talked to both my wife and me about seemed like he had a vested interest in helping her - some concepts were off the wall while others seemed right on point.

This last month has turned out to be the worst month of my life. I did notice that my wife was on the computer a lot more than she used to be but figured she was online shopping for xmas gifts. Then a few nights before new years eve she went out again with Ed, with my ok - he even picked her up at my house. When she came home she immediately told me that they ended up going to a bar in a neighboring city. The bar that we usually all go to they told me they didn't want to go into "to protect me from people talking and thinking the wrong things" especially bc my friend owns the bar and knows them very well. BUt my wife made a few comments that really botheresd me - first she said that Ed's best friend was in the bar with his wife (who is good friend's with Ed's wife) and also that they didn't want to go to the local Houlihans "bc it was packed and also Ed's daughter sometimes goes in there".

I was pretty floored by their logic and very annoyed that they made it seem quite clear that they were sneeking around. I ended up not talking to her much right up until new year's eve day - when we started talking a little bit. In the back of my mind - I really did not want a blow out fight especially being that we were going to a large family party that night. As it turns out we eneded up having one of the worst fights of our life at the party - with her storming out - leaving our kids behind and me running after her. We ended up at home where she went into a tirade - all over Ed. She even ended up throwing her cell phone and throwing our christmas tree down. It was horrible and at one point I left and came back and she was on the phone with this guy and I could hear her saying "my husband is ver uncomfortable and upset- almost to the point where I felt that she was going to end their friendship. When she finally talked to me she was going on saying how it was all over and that she had to give p a friend "all bc of me". I was hurt and started to question my reasoning - she ended up being really depressed and miserable on NY day and all I wanted was to make everything alright. At some point I again must have sent the wrong signal and they ended up talking and it was like nothing ever happened. I kind of went with the flow - for the sanity of my family.

Then a few days later, I come across one of her emails to him. It made mention about me coming home soon and not to call, she also said what time she would be walking and that she would alk to him later - she closed out the email by typing "MMMM (that is supposed to be my sexy moan)" I knew about the email and did not let on to her, she ended up going walking and when she came home, I asked her for a kiss and then told her she smelled of smoke, which she did, and she claimed that she passes a lot of kids on the streets who are smoking - other than that she didn't know why she smelled and couldn't understand it. I could not sleep that night and felt an inner rage building up in me.

I finally woke her up and made the mistake of not telling her about the email, but kind of lied and told her that I got some information that she was messing around with Ed. I told her I wanted Ed out of her life and no more work on the house. Later the next day I told her about the email - and I can usually tell when she is lieing but without flinching said that she was just fooling around with him and that I was absolutely rediculous to think that she would even be remotely interested in him in a sexual way. She basically told me that I could not control her and tell her who she could and could not have as friends. I may be a wimp here but I love her to death and I believed her. I leter confronted Ed about the email and we had a long discussion with the same result - we're just friends.

A few days later, I end up intercepting a late night chat she had with him. I never in million years would imagine she would be chatting with him - let alone when I saw the content - It completely destroyed me inside. I was going away with friends and family on the following weekend and it looked as if the two of them were planning an intimate night at my house. I got a lot of mixed signals from the chat but one line she was saying how in light of everything that happened with the email that she needed to talk to him but then added "don't worry I'm not breaking up with you" One line he said to her was " I hope we won't talk for long bc we got work to do" she also added how she "loved kissing him" and they ended by saying how they had to go to bed "too bad not together" and my wife ended by saying "dream of me". - I was absolutely devistated and was emotionally a complete wreck.

I immediately called up Ed to arrange a meeting. When we got together I immediately came out and said to him "when did you start f*&king my wife" I told him about the chat - which he immediately denied having with her - and then went on swearing up and down that he did absolutely nothing wrong or sexual with my wife ever. He does have a way of doing things that seemed to diffuse the situation. He then told me that he had to go home to cook dinner and then invited me to come over to continue discussing.

We ended up talking further in his garage and he even invited me up to eat with his family. I obviously had no appetite and ended up leaving it with him that we would talk more but that I wanted him out of our personal life. He claimed that they were friend and that my wife would get suspicious if he just cut things off, but with my help would end things slowly but surely.

I went home that night and had a good conversation with my wife but I never brought up the chat. I was trying to gage her thoughts etc. but could not. She on the other hand knew something was bothering me. The next day I ended up meeting with Ed at my office and actually showed him a picture of the chat script - He claimed up and down that he fools around with everyone that way, that they were only joking and that it was stupid for them to have done it. I, having never ever caught them doing anything inappropriate, so I could not say for sure if they were joking or not. My wife just doesn't seem the type to forgo the family and get into an affair. I even told him that I had pictures of them and hired a PI - and he just kept saying that he never did anything wrong, ever. He admited that all of us got very friendly - quickly and that I guess he felt comfortable enough to engage in this type of talk on the net - but while it was stupid - they did nothing wrong.

I did eventually tell my wife about the chat, after my daughter's sixth bday party (last week)she had a few drinks while I was pretty sober. She again claimed that she would never ever have sex with Ed and again said that they were just joking around. To her credit, she has joked around with other close friends of mine and said it was sort of the same thing.

Not satisfied, I kept pushing her, and at one point she said to me "ok you want the truth" she ran over and poured herself a drink and started nerviously wiping up a little that she spilled. She sat down and then said to me that "yes it was true that they were planning on getting together on Friday night" but then added that he was only coming over for drinks and that it. She again said that she would never do anything like what I was thinking. At one point I actually asked her if she would take a lie detector test - something that I also asked Ed - and she blew her top. I had to calm her down - of course the whole trust thing came up etc. Ed on the other hand said without blinking an eye that he would take a LD test, if that is what I wanted to do.

I was so upset that I ended up taking off from work to meet with both my wife and Ed to get this whole thing straight. At the end of the day - my wife is like a loose cannon, I do sense for some reason that there is resentment of me, and this issue with Ed really troubles me - yet she looks at like if she gives up this friendship it is like I am controlling her life so in my mind I look at it like we are at opposing ends of a magnet - the more I push, the more she resists. I even told her that if she did do anything that I would forgive her for the sake of our kids and our marriage.

I ended up going on my weekend. I spoke to my closest cousin about the situation - and while he only sees my wife every so often - he believes that I may be looking into this too much and he also agrees that he can't imagine my wife cheating on me - especially with a much older, unattractive man. He gave me some good advice, and both my wife and Ed swore up and down that Ed would go no where near my house over that weekend. I spoke to my wife often during the weekend - in fact to much by our standards.

When I returned I met with Ed again and told him I would wish that he would just get out of my personal life. I told him that I believed them, while still interally having my doubts. Ed is a fairly popular guy in our city and also holds some power and knows powerful people. He knows that if this got out it would create a scandal - I do too. He again said that it wasn't going to be easy to just throw away a friend because in both of their minds, while admittingthey were wrong about the chat, they both obviously feel that I have to overcome my issues and that they are doing nothing wrong.

I really don't know what to think. I can't understand why my wife would want to cause such strain on our marriage by continueing this "friendship". I even consider Ed a friend and I again never ever caught them doing anything wrong and there were times that I could have but would only come home finding the chatting at the kitchen table or him actually doing some work and her doing house work. Without that proof I kind of am content in believing them but I want more tat ever for Ed to be out of the scene. When I came home my wife assured me that she has absolutely no issues with me in anyway - outside of the fact that I have been driving her crazy with this whole friend thing - and that is all that it is. I did tell her that she was dead wrong, which she admitted, about the chat and that I will have some trust issues do to the fact that I looked at that chat as a betrayal of my trust in their relatonship.

Earlier this week, I stopped home for lunch and was not there for more than a few minutes when her cell went of and it was him. I immediately blew up about it, lunch was ruined, we ended up fighting very loudly in front of our 3 yr old. The whole thing left me wanting to pack up and run. I left the house and called Ed telling him if he wants her he could have her bc I was going to leave her. He immediately got very upset and asked me to stop by his office and talk. I did and he basically did all the talking saying that I should just be a man and let things go and deal with my issues for the sake of our wonder family and marriage. He said he was returning her call and that they have not spoke in a few days. He assured me that it will end slowly but surely but that I have to sometimes bite my lip and let things take their course.

Friday night I found this board and read the basic concepts. I know I am not perfect and I am really trying, perhaps too hard, to comunicate more effectively with my wife and avoiding any sort of fight whatsoever. She went out with her girlfriends on Fri night and came howm and we had talked like old times. She was even going on about how one of her friends is having a lot of problems with her husband and here we were both discussing it as if we didn't have our own issues.

I called Ed yesterday and told him that I was determined (with this board's help) to make my marriage better. I gave him two weeks to cut ties with my wife. He was saying how should he go about this without my wife blaming me. I said that they got into this thing and that he should be man enough to figure an exit strategy on his own terms. I am figuring that if he does not get this figured out, I am going to have to end up discussing things with his wife and some of our mutual friends. My wife also has a very mature friend who I would also like to talk to only because I am hoping that she may be able to talk some sense into her.

My wife and I went out on a date last night and we did have fun. However I do feel that for some reason or another, the talk would hit walls at points and we were both yawning at times, but I was determined to keep things positive and fun. She was very affectionate to me a lot and we kissed a lot, held hands, she was very caressing, and all in all it was a very good night.

So here I am am - sorry to bore you all with all of these details - but I really feel like I am in a rock in a hard place. In my mind, I really want to believe them and I can't imagine really and trully my wife even looking at this guy in any sexual way. But that being said, Ed is a very smart guy and I can see him very easily taking avantage of the fact that his job and life offer him and my wife an outlet to talk rather frequently. He obviously is meeting some of her emotional needs - that I can't or have not up to this point. I don't want to try too hard and eventually I would like her to take the EN questionaire along with me. I started talking a little about some of the things I am learning in here - but again - I am going about things and trying every way possible to not accuse her of anything or have any sort of conflict. I just need some outside advice here - I really love my wife dearly and I would hate to see our kids the product of a divorce - I really won't let that happen. That being said I need your help...

Welcome to marriagebuilders. It is quite obvious that your wife and Ed are having an affair. You might be in denial a bit. None of us ever believe that our partner will cheat.

Insist that your wife and Ed have no contact.

First of all -- so sorry you are here.
Second of all -- its the best place to be under the circumstances.

Do not let the two of them manipulate and intimidate you. They are having an affair. And they are the ones who are WRONG -- not you for how you are reacting to it.

Keep this place to yourself for awhile. You'll need it for support, and that will work better if your wife isn't seeing all your plans.

The first thing is to get yourself under control. Stop confronting and reacting to each instance you see. Rather, start investigating.

Put a keylogger on your computer. Try spectorsoft. You will be able to see all chats and e-mails. And get passwords.

Consider a PI. For real.

They have been able to explain away (by working together) all the inconsistancies. And they are trying to make you feel like an over-reacting jealous husband (which you are NOT!) Your reactions are normal.

If/when you have further evidence of the depth of the relationship -- not to mention proof...your next step will be exposure. It sounds like Ed is a smooth operator, so you want to have irrefutable proof when you expose him.
Don't threaten them -- it will only give them advance warning to diffuse you.

Hang in there!

I tend to agree with your assessment, unfortunately. I do have a few questions. Every time I insist NC it ends up blowing up in my face - we usually have a big fight - not good, especially for the family. Ed wants me to continue talking to him about this - I guess like you said to work on diffusing it with her. I did give hime two weeks to do this on his own - rather than me. I guess I can't expect him to follow through. Should I speak with his wife about this and ultimately where do you think that will lead me?

I really can't believe this is happening to me. I did even mention that I was thinking of a PI to my wife and she immediatly told me that if I ever did she would leave me. I need to keep this family together - what made her do this? I even said to Ed - do you really want to deal with the baggage of a divorcee on your hands with three small kids and you to blame? He does not want that either - yet he is sitting pretty going home to an unsuspecting spouce. Meanwhile, I wonder everytime she leaves my house - even for groceries.

I do have a keylogger. Her pw is "supertwinkie" - a line that he has told me just last week that used to be his opening line with women - "Have you had your twinkie today?" He used to work for the company...

Plus, now in light of my saying things - she rarely uses the computer anymore. I wonder if I would have came home that night and caught the two of them what would have happened - I still wonder what will happen if I do catch them.

I know I am in denial. I just keep thinking that someway somehow, she will see the light. She still thinks this guy is going to continue doing work in my house. I feel like a damn fool and I guess my own mind is letting them manipulate me. She is at her mom's right now with the kids, I am going to meet her shortly at the diner for dinner and then she said she needs to go grocery shopping. I know she is going to end up at least calling him, maybe maybe not. This is my world right now - and I also have a business to run. I feel like my whole world is turned upside down right now.

Do you it would be wise to talk to her friend about this? I am just so afraid that I don't know how that will turn out either. I really don't need a lot of people talking about this and again I want the best chance for our marriage to work here. I just feel like just lately I am doing everything to drive her away and God forbid if her friend confronts her with this and it gets back to me then I just feel like we will be taking a major step backwards...

I know what you mean about keeping this board private but I do feel compelled to show her this, so she can see for herself that my case is quite compelling. But I will follow your advice.

Right now things are good between us - no fights or nonsense - I guess I like it that way but I still feel like I am living a lie.

You cannot be afraid of fighting or blowups. STOP talking to Ed. Send him a note to leave your wife alone. Tell your wife that she needs to end her affair and have no contact. Then start exposing the affair.

Your children will survive an argument, but your marriage won't survive an affair. In fact, leave your kids with someone when you talk to your wife, and tell her the jig is up.

Your wife is intimidating you into allowing her to continue her affair. You need to get tough and enforce your boundaries. Quit having arguments and follow through. Don't be afraid of your WW's anger, be afraid of her affair.

1) Gather all your evidence and expose you your WW's family and friends. Expose to Ed's wife. Expose to church leaders, anyone who would be in a position to put pressure to end the affair.

2) Insist on NC with Ed. If she doesn't follow through, you need to get tough. She keeps calling him - turn off her cell phone. She keeps chatting with him - turn off the internet. Don't let her go out with him while you watch the kids. Put GPS on her car, and keep track of where she goes. She continues to cross your boundaries, separate your finances, cut up her credit cards, and cut her off financially. She is a stay at home mother, she shouldn't be allowed to go around and screw whoever she wants while you pay the bills. I would even get arrangements to watch the kids, change the locks, and drop her crap on the curb if she continues.

Don't be afraid to get tough. Your WW is an ADDICT. You can't reason with her, you can't bargain with her, and you can't get her to just stop. Cut her off and watch how quickly she comes running back. LISTEN TO ME! I did the same thing with my WW. I exposed and cut her off. SHE WAS PISSED!!! She set up an appointment with a divorce lawyer and told me it was over. I told her she had until the weekend to get out of my house and start paying her cell phone, car and health insurance, and car payment. FIVE DAYS LATER, she agreed to NC with OM. IT WAS A BLUFF!!! It was an intimidation tactic that didn't work on me. She stopped having her affair when I stopped allowing it to happen.

It is time to get tough. It is called tough love, and it is required to save and ADDICT from THEMSELVES. They will get pissed and kick and scream, but when the dust settles, they WILL come back to you. They don't want to lose their children, their financial security, just for some a-hole named Ed. If you make them make a choice, chances are it will be you. But they'll be pissed about it.

STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR MARRIAGE! Expose TODAY! Let your WW know your boundaries TODAY! The longer you allow this to go on, the longer it will take to recover.

If you do as I suggest you have about a 90+% chances of saving your marriage. Your prognosis is good. Stop being afraid of your wife. She is intimidating you to allow her to continue her affair. Stop enabling her. Trust me, I have experience in this.

byond,

You seem like a nice guy, too nice. I would be willing to bet that even if you caught them in bed together,Ed and your WW could convince you that nothing happened.

You are suffering from at least two BS maladies..... fog and gaslighting.

Best of luck

Byond --

She is using her anger to intimidate you away from doing the things she fears.

You should have no contact with Ed -- he is your ENEMY, not friend. He is looking out for his own interests NOT YOURS.
He's using a classic technique of coaching you and talking to you so that he knows what your plans are and how to work around your plans.

Because he is a smooth operator who seems able to convince people (including you...) of complete lies -- I would have very good documentation and evidence before I exposed to his wife. Or before you expose to anyone further.

Gather evidence. Know what you are up against.

You said he agreed to take a lie detector test....well its not expensive call his bluff. And he is bluffing!!! You don't deserve to be treated this way.

I sure hope you didn't tell Ed about this board ... and PLEASE do not mention it to your wife, either. You need this place as your safe haven for now - somewhere you can go and get advice without them looking over your shoulder. Your WW will not be open to learning anything from this site right now, anyway...not until she's completely NC with Ed and through withdrawal!!

I did not tell anyone about this board. I really appreciate all of the advice so far - although I have been quite sick in reading them. I feel like such a wimp, even in reading my own words. Here I am a 6 foot 4 275 pound guy who felt like I could take on the world 10 months ago and now I am afraid to confront her yet again about this. Thingss are very peaceful now and yet I need the truth from her - I also agree with everything that has been said so far but I guess the truth hurts. Beinng that I never did actually catch them - what if I am wrong here? I guess I have to suck it up - I know I am right but I guess in a way I am being selfish too. I have a few big engagements coming up and I guess in a way I do not want to impact that as well. I guess I am finding any excuse to advoid the conflict. She is a strong willed woman and can be emotionally unstable - probably from her past. Remember what I said about the xmas tree? How can I do this in a way where it will not be a blow out fight. We have had at least 7 or 8 of these since New Years. What can I say to actually make her breakdown and admit her guilt so that we an move on. Also is she going to make my life ****** after all of this - I guess worse than it is now?

It is very unlikely that she will break down and admit her guilt. You need to monitor things very closely and bust her. But I would talk to Ed and tell him to stay away. Then talk to his wife and ask her help.

Believer - I agree to a point.
However -- because of Ed's ability to schmoooz his way out of tight situations, I would have irrefutable EVIDENCE before trying to expose him.

He is a master spin doctor. He's been able to convince Byonhurt that the relationship he has WITH BYONDS WIFE is OK. And the pair of them are conspiring to make him think he is a paranoid jealous insecure husband. That HE is the one with the problem.

Byond, you are NOT the one in the wrong here.

GET EVIDENCE. GET READY TO EXPOSE.

You have already given them a grace period to end it. They very clearly will not.

I think you are right, Lexxxy. Byondhurt - Ignore my advice above - this is going to take a little more finesse.

I agree, you need to document everything. It is very difficult to play the detective. I personally am dumbfounded that I can't trust my WH anymore. I feel like I am doing something wrong by checking up on him, but if I don't it is to my detriment. Good luck. I know how difficult it is not to have those knee-jerk reactions to every phone call or email you may find. I haven't figured out when that perfect time to confront my WH is, but if I do I will certainly let you know.

I disagree. I think he has more than enough evidence that his WW is going WAY over the line with Ed. It doesn't take proof of a PA to start exposing. Document all that you have and expose to your WW's parents and friends. Her friends may have already sensed something was up, or she may have confided in them.

I personally would not wait to catch Ed in the act of f*cking my wife before I would do something. She has already crossed the line. I'm sure any normal human being would agree with what you have already laid out. I would tell Ed's wife. That way she can monitor the situation from her end. I would also let Ed no that he was not welcome around you or your WW. That way if he comes around again, it is because he is after some *ss. If he hasn't already had sex with your WW don't let him just so you have proof of it. You already have proof of an inappropriate relationship. If you told her parents that she was planning a get together at your house without your knowledge, they would tell her that was unacceptable.

Kill the A NOW! Don't let it go any further.

byondhurt ,


Quote:
Right now things are good between us - no fights or nonsense - I guess I like it that way but I still feel like I am living a lie.
----------

You feel you're living a lie because you are.

I am really sorry you're going thru this. Bare in mind this is just the beggining of a long painful road.


I lived this insane doubt for two years and it almost destroyed me. They will only ever admit anything after hard proof is presented, and even then they will try to deny, as they already did.

That chat is more then proof that something is going on. There is in no way "normal" or apropriated... and no one can't miss kissing anyone if they havent kissed already.

They are luring you because none of them want to end their Marriages, they just want to live the fantasy of the A. It doesnt really matter if its a EA or PA, what they are doing is wrong and is damaging your M and your sanity.

My suggestion?

If you really want hard proof you have to let the A continue, accept their "friendship" and do all you can to find that proof. I wouldn't go this way. First because they are being very cautions now. Second maybe its just a EA and you'll never have more proof then you already have.



So go Plan A. Stop talking to Ed. reinforce NC. Tell them that it's obvious that their friendship crossed the line in that "chat" (this is hard proof) and if they really are friends they understand they cant comprimise their marriages.

And now you ask me, if they follow NC when you will ever know the truth right?


You will, in time, hopefully, if you follow MB principals, with a good plan A, Emotional Needs, Policy of radical Honesty, you will get there.

Dont show this site to your WW now. But give her the book " Not just friends"

Work on yourself, PLEASE, dont let them doubt yourself with their lies.

It has been said before here, No one ever heard of a situation where the BS gut instinct, or suspicions where wrong, which means, there's always some kind of A if the BS feels it inside.


I am happy you found MB, please never stop posting, even if just to vent, you'll get here the best support you can ask for, and it really helps.

I am a BS, one year past d-day, working to reach the recovery stage.

For two years I was suspicious, for two years I lived in dispair of doubting my own self, because I was suspicious and snooping on my H, and felt really bad about it, after all, he "might" be telling the truth and I am becoming a paranoid jealous suspicious wifey. It turn out to be all true. He lied about having those A's, He lied to be able to have the A's and he lied when confronted with proof, it's amazing how good at lying WS are, how they abuse our trust. Yes he only admited when confronted with HARD PROOF.

Good luck

Only saw Jim post after posting my reply. (was typing it)

Exactly what he said, He's right on.

STOP it now! Dont fear her anger emotions, she does that to keep you away from forcing her to face truth, to manipulate you and even blame you after, make you feel guilty because you created a fight in front of the kids, when she's the one wrong doing it.

Well here it is a few days since my last post. Actually I did make a post yesterday which did not take, but since then we have made major progress.

I do want to thank all of you out there that have taken their time to post and help me. I really appreciate your support - if nothing else I have felt so alone with this for months. I only wish I came upon this board months ago - but instead I suffered silently and became a huge wimp.

Well as I have mentioned I took a stand Sun night and it was the best thing (for now) tha I have done. By early last night - between the we're only friends and you don't believe me's - the anger that you all told me would come - piled on deep. I finally said "I know your having an affair" She sat at the end of our bed, absolutely exhausted and broke down and admitted the whole thing. I am sure a lot of you understand the range of emotions I was feeling - one most surprisingly was the sence of relief.

I have to tell you all - all the denial I had all these months just came tumbling down. There is absolutely no doubt that Ed is a major smooth operator that even had me pulled into his web of lies and deceit. My wife blamed all of the attention that he poured on her as the major factor in this. He made her swear to "take this to the grave and no one will get hurt" "you are only cheating if you get caught"

I could go on and on - she told me a lot of details - too much to actually handle yet I had to hear it. I need to get through this and I want to make our marriage work. I told her it took tremendous courage to let it all out and I think as she told me details it was like a huge weight lifted from her. I love her dearly and II feeel as though both of us were major victims of Ed's BS. She can't understand why and neither can I why this happened - yet he set it up so that she initiated everything. He told her to call him and he would always make himself avail. for her - and it sounds as though he did. She said it was definitely an emotional thing - more than a sexual one which I do believe. He had an incredible line of s$%t and she was lured into it very quickly, as was I. I wanted so much to trust both of them and I denied everything right from early on, even though my instincts told me otherwise. Lesson learned - always go wih your instincts and have the [email]b@#ls[/email] to stand up for those insticts.
This guy had such unbelieveable b#$ls that the first night I actually confronted him - at his house with both our wives there - my wife went downstairs to his bathroom and he followed her down knocked on the door and busted in to grope her. My wife said she freaked out and he said don't worry everyone has fresh drinks no one will come down here.

I actually feel completely violated with major thoughts of revenge. I will need help with this.

Well we woke up this morning and I asked her to tell her good friend - who is older and wiser and I know will be major support for her in hopefully overcoming this addiction. I also figured that if she did come clean to her that this would be major progress. She said "no I just want to try and have a normal day" I didn't push it and left for work.

Well by 10:30am - she did tell her friend and I was relieved. Her friend, as I knew she would, gave her great advice and she even called our church to set up a meeting with our Pastor - who is new to our church and also has 25 years of previous experiance with psychology. She recently met him because our son is making his 1st communion and she even mention to me at that time she should see him for confession. I didn't even pick up on it then and believe me we are not by any means religious people.

So there is progress and a whole lot of pain. I, as well as her friend, are enforcing NC. I told her in the strictest of terms that if I even think or find out that she has contacted him I will throw her out. She knows that I am committed to restoring our marriage and I know deep down that she is too.

There is a lot more honesty and I told her today that I feel for the first time in months that we are a team again. I do know that there is an alful lot of work ahead of us. I told her that I know she still has strong feelings for him - which she admitted she does - but I told her that while she was in it for various reasons, he was in it for only one thing and would provide her those emotional needs that she was craving to keep going back for more. Yesterday morning was the last time she called him - which I believe - and she told him about NC and that she was even thinking of telling me everything. He told her up and down that she was making a big mistake (still ever manipulating) and that she should be able to do whatever she wants. He was a master brainwasher and I do think that the more we talk (even though it is killing me inside) the more she is coming to that realization. It is definitely evident though that she is still adicted and I told her we need to be strong through the withdrawal and that he is "dead to us".

Well guys I think we have progress here. We are going to go for marriage counciling. One last thought I have is that I know my wife wasn't out there looking. I brought this guy into our home and I do blame him entirely for this whole mess. Had he not been involved I know we would not be in this situation - he is an absolute master.

How do I move forward from here. I want revenge on him in the worst way - but really I don't think any of you understand how much of a master he is. I firmly believe that even if I sat down with his wife and told her everything - I would ultimately come out losing. He literally has everyone over a barrel and even his friends will protect him anyway possible. He hangs out with some of the most powerful people in our city and he is also a major representative for my #2 client. I literally believe that my wife and I will come out major losers from the exposure thing - and I need to be very calculating to be effective. I don't want this guy to do it to anyone else. Amazingly - he even admitted to my wife that he had two previous affairs in town (I am sure there were many more, as well as one night stands) - yet my wife continued on....

Since Ed was involved with other women, it is imperative that your wife be screened for STD's, and you as well, if you have been intimate with her. You should think about exposing Ed's behavior to his wife. The OMW may not believe you, but if your wife can describe his anatomy, then she would have to. One more thing...find out if your state allows suits for alienation of affection, then check with an attorney. Hitting him in the wallet may be the best revenge.