Hi all,
Had to jump in here as I agree with all who respectfully suggest that WW has lost the right to privacy.

It was that very privacy that enabled the vunerabilty to choose to have an A in the firsst place.

The good DR(PHD) has errontly sugested that it is somehow your job to restore the broken trust that your W trampled. That, to me, says that this is a person who just doesn't get it. It is the complete opposite. If the WW wants to stay M'd, then she better start bending over backwards to restore the trust of the BS, cause he's going to need it!

IMHO, all is fair in the A world, you're WW made it so. That "blind trust" that Dr. H warns about is completely true and to the mark. It really should have never existed in the first place. And along comes Dr. PHD who somehow thinks that you have to earn her trust. Just seems like a lot of putting the cart before the horse to me.

Wish I had letters after my name that would make my opinion invincible. Wait.... I had a business that had LLC after it,, does that count????

Blessings,
Jerry

From Penalty Kill

Actually, I thought that in marriage it was more of a privacy vs. secrecy issue. That each partner has a right to privacy (diary, going to the bathroom), but not to secrecy (email, phone calls, whereabouts). Personally I see a very large distinction between the two, ie thoughts vs. actions. But that's just me, and I don't even keep a diary.

I think that it would be an excellent question for Dr. Harley.

Whoops,
Perhaps I used the wrong term.

Have you ever heard the term"secret diary?"

My mistake,
Jerry

Dr. Harley addressed this subject on his show today, so anyone can listen to the replay. [it is in the first hour] He stated that a spouse has a right to read every word written by their spouse and I agree with this. I personally wouldn't place writing in a diary in the same league as going to the bathroom, but think it belongs in the same category as emails, etc.

And I most especially wouldn't place a diary in a special category when dealing with an adulterous spouse. Reading the diary could make the difference between catching them and not catching them in an affair.

From Penalty Kill


A secret diary...but this one *wasn't* secret - it was recommended by the counselor - both spouses knew of its existence. And, I wonder, was the promise not to read the diary made to the counselor as well as the wife? How many people did biwabik lie to?

Jerry, no mistake, it's just a question of personal opinion, yours counts as much as mine. My opinion is that one's thoughts can remain private. One's actions in a marriage, should not remain secret. Some people read their diary entries to each other, some don't.

Apparently few people find it troubling that biwabik lied to his wife; I say that it must be troubling him if he had to post about it here and look for justification.

I wouldn't call it a lie, I would call it making a bad promise that should have never been made. A lie is made for the purpose of DECEIVING, and I am sure when he made it, his purpose wasn't deceit. Even so, it is a bad promise that should not be kept.

He has every right to read the diary and he has an obligation to protect himself from her. He has a RIGHT to read every word she writes.

I can't believe how many WSs are stupid enough to leave diaries sitting around.

Hey BSs...heads up...if you are having some potentially incriminating thoughts...don't leave them in a leatherbound book that might as well have "evidence" written on the cover.

Next question...you indicated that the affair has been over since MAR '06. Does that remain true?

Also...what's the state of things NOW?

You're talking about reading her diary from Sep...personally, I don't see value in bringing that up if she's not still in the same state of mind as she was in September. If you think she is...if you think what she wrote then is still how she feels now...then ask the question about how she feels now (and then) without bringing up the diary.

Again, the focus should be working on current issues...worrying about what she wrote in her diary five months ago is less important than addressing where you both are at right now.

Hi Mel,

I probably stated it wrong as usual, but yes, that's sorta what I am trying to get across.



That's what I'm trying to say. he has a right to uncover the truth in his marriage. There is nothing dishonest in that!

It was his WW that was totally dishonest in thier R.

As a BS, I know how desperate that can make one. It borders on insanity, but, it is actually the real truth.

Blessings,
Jerry

Why is OK for a WS to be truthful to " a diary" but not be truthful to his/her BS.

Doesn't that sound like a big violation of radical honesty?

Going to the bathroom or taking a bubble bath is privacy, amorous thoughts about an OM is nothing short or betrayal and sabotage to a BS desperately trying to save their M.

I totally disagree.

IMHO,
Blessings,
Jerry

So...

I vote abandon the debate.

You read the diary...personally I would just tell her that until she EARNS your trust she should just ASSUME that there is a trunk load of evidence in safe keeping somewhere just waiting to bite her in the @ss.

You aren't the one who is called on the carpet to explain your behavior...as long as YOU remember that you'll do fine.

So more importantly what did the diary reveal?

In a word?

Duplicity.

Treachery.

Lies.

So...what now?

Exactly my point,

What's the difference in doing this as opossed to cheking cell phone, TM's, or keylogger.

All is fair game to a BS. As it should be, but there seem to be many this the word DIARY" should somehow be off limits. That's like placing the word BIBLE" ON A DIATRIBE that only indicates a WW sitting on top of the fence,

I can only continue to totally disagree with this.

Blessings
Jerry