I am new to this board, this topic and my world has been turned upside down.

Found out six weeks ago that my WW was having secret phone calls with someone she met at her new job. This had been going on for about three weeks, when I found out.

Fast forward to last week, she was very distant and unpleasant too me. I checked the cell phone records (again) and found that she was calling him more than ever (it died down on her cell phone for the last month). The worst was that on Friday I had met her for lunch and she called him right after I left (broke my heart, again!!).

I confronted her Saturday morning, while she was getting ready for work, and told her I new all about the calls last week. She was mad that I had snooped. I threatened to call the OM, she said it wasn't him, it was her and that would be rude. I told her she should probably move out (half heartedly). That night we spoke again and she said she wanted to work on our marriage, she didn't mean to hurt me and doesn't want to hurt the kids. She hasn't "cheated" on me, but is attracted to him. I told her we couldn't fix the marriage if she continued to contact him. She said she "knows" she can't contact him.

When I first found out, she said they were just "friends" she is missing passion and humor, that she has changed and is not sure she is attracted too me anymore.

I have been following the boards advice, and have been working on myself. Golfing, reaching out too friends, trying not be needy, acting as if I have my own life, etc.

This week she has been very attentive, left me a note telling me she loved me (haven't had that in months), she initiated SF. I have only been able to verify the phone calls, but her normal schedule remained pretty steady. A friend also feels she hasn't "cheated" (she confided in her).

I don't believe she has cut off contact, though and I will check when I am ready (am enjoying my first pleasant week in two months). I am having lunch with a good friend tomorrow. I am debating whether I should tell him everythig, as I am sure his wife will immediately call my WW. I guess I am afraid it will mess up my "good" week.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as this has been the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with..

H: 39
W: 39
S: 13
S: 9
D: 6
Married: 15 years
D-discovery: 11-2006

hmm. Have a look at the infidelity FAQ's linked below. She will need to establish NC which will mean a new job.

oh that was rude of me. Welcome to MB

Hi Cal and welcome to marriage builders,

She is right in that the EA is all about her. You have probably read enough on this site to understand that she has built up a fantasy life around the EA that has little to do with real life. It probably also has little to do with OM and more to do with her needs that she has allowed to spill over into this EA.

She says she is missing passion and humor. That sounds a little familiar from my FWH's EA, only he told me he was just having "fun". He looked at it as a way to be the "wise guy", always ready with the quip. So she wants passion and humor--easy to find in a pretend relationship, huh?

She says she hasn't "cheated" on you. Well I sure you know that emotional cheating is just as painful as the physical cheating. She will most likely figure that out as she works her way out of the fog.

She must have NC with this guy. Stay firm about this. Do not whine or grovel or snivel. She is cheating on you and it is a betrayal. It is okay to make sure that she understands that this is how you feel about it.

Sounds like you are doing a really good job with your plan A.

I can tell you that what will mess up your good week and good marriage is contact with OM. This has to be the thing that is established so that you and she can work on your marriage. I was one of the lucky BSs who just had to discover the EA (by reading the e-mails) and look at my H with the pain of the betrayal in my eyes and he stopped. It is still taking time for us to put everything back together but I am doing well with recovery, and FWH is being attentive and remorseful.

Let us know how you are doing with the NC so that you and your w can begin recovery.
Lake

Update on my situation:

I felt progress was being made since my last post. I have been working hard on myself and felt things were getting a little better. The cell phone records showed no contact since the blow up and she had told her Mom she wasn't contacting him.

She trew me a 40th B-Day party on Sunday and she was affectionate, caring and it was great. I had the fear in the back of my mind, that it was a show in front of our friends. Monday she is cold and distant, she claimed she was up in the middle of the night with one of the kids and she was tired. (side note: I started a consulting job the first week of January, I have not been put on an assignment yet (still getting paid), so I have been home. This has totally ruined her routine, which she reminds me of often). We have an argument that afternoon, that she is just tired and me being home all the time is killing our marriage. This morning, I have a son with an ear infection and a daughter refusing to go to school (big tantrum), wife has to go to work. I ask her a question and she totally snaps at me. When I ask why she needs to snap, she tells me I need to get a back bone.

Till today, I had no proof she was still talking to him. I went up stairs and hit redial on the phone and his number came up.

She just called too check on the kids. She apologized for this morning and I told her that it is more than than and that I know she is still talking to him and that we won't make any progress if she is still talking. She was quiet and then she said, "it is not as bad as you think". Huh?

Any advice on how too handle the conversation this afternoon, would be greatly appreciated.

WIC


H: 39
W: 39
S: 13
S: 9
D: 6
Married: 15 years
D-discovery: 11-2006

Have you done any exposure?

~ Marsh

Liars!

WIC,

You're not going to say any magical words to her that will make her "snap out of it" and end her A.

You need to step up to the plate and expose this A to everyone who will put pressure on them to end it.

Here's a list of Do's and Don't list, Mr. W brought here...


DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP


~ Marsh

Her Mom, sisters, my Mom and her best friend all know. They have all talked to her about not destroying her family over this. Today, I want to tell her that I have been more than patient in her establishing NC. I need her to know that I am getting close to not being able to put up with it anymore. I think I have done a decent job on the Plan A, but I probably fall into Lovebuster mode more than I should. I do believe there should be some level of committment to try and save the marriage, ie counciling, NC, etc. Even if it is a Rollercoaster, it would give me something to hold onto.

Thoughts.

Is the OM married?

Time to expose to his family.

How about at their work place? Have you exposed there, yet?

I know you'd like her to agree to NC, but it usually takes exposure to break up an A.

Expose to everyone you can.

~ Marsh

WIC,

You eliminate your LBs for YOU...get to know them intimately and find out where you permit yourself to abuse...call it abuse in your mind...and decide not to be that person. It's not really you, anyway.

Next, share what you've read aloud...what you now believe is an A...any time one of you puts something else ahead of your marriage...

There's you...her...and the marriage.

Not her replacing you...not her putting someone else ahead of you...ahead of the marriage, 'k?

See if your pain level drops. EA's are tough to understand until you're the BS of one...listen and repeat what she says...it's her stuff...not yours. She hit you with a huge, common wayward statement about the passion and humor. Seriously. Know that she fell in love with you, felt passion for you and laughed a great deal with you...remember who you were then, what you chose to do then, and I will bet ('cuz Harley proves it) if you do those things now...she will fall in love with you all over again.

Why? Because you're still you! You're her husband...remember that...act from your authentic self...state your thoughts, feelings, perceptions and beliefs as your own...use "I" statements...that's BEING intimate...know your stuff and share it. Listen for any use of the word "you" and kick it to the curb, unless you're listening and repeating.

You choose to DJ a lot...by "reading" her stuff...assuming she's upset and figuring out why...you want peace and smoothness...look at what you really want...to live in truth and honesty...and respect. To live in it, you gotta give it. You have to act from it. Then you'll experience it. I promise.

Plan A means you are the reality bringer...because her fog is fantasy...she may sincerely want to stop contacting him...and justify contacting him. Help her out...don't DJ, know your truth and state it...and share The Truth (human actions) with others. Expose. Live honest.

Listen to these posters...they've been where you've been...you're not alone...you can do this...think of Plan A as Plan Authentic...and you'll save your marriage.

I believe in you.

LA

LA,

Thank you so much for the encouraging words. It is amazing how much strength is gained from these posts. I did not bring up the R tonight. I tried to be happy and positive, someone she would want to be with. I asked her if she wanted to go to breakfast tomorrow, which she seemed very happy about. I also asked her to go on a walk tonight, which she has been doing by herself.

Just trying to do some pleasant things. I did notice she pulled out the list of therapists, so I am hoping she will resume trying to find one. I will share with her how much pain she causes every time she contacts the OM. I also let her Mom know that she is still in contact with him.

I trying to balance being positive and happy, with pressuring her to do the right thing. It is unbeleivably hard, as most of the post have stated.

Thanks again for the support.

WIC

I don't know if you and she are in the right place with each other for this yet, but my FWH and I found that expressing our private thoughts to each other helped to increase love and intimacy.

I'm talking about thoughts that you may have going through your mind that are usefull thoughts, they describe you and your attitudes or feelings in some manner. But, like most of us and especially men, you just think them and you do not say them to your W verbally. Try being aware of your thoughts when you are with her and make a decision to share some of those things that you would normally just think about (but keep to yourself).

It is surprising what a little "I" statement about a minor thought will do for intimacy.
Lake

Lake,

she seems very reluctant to talk in that manner. But, occasionnally she will open up. I need to really work on the DJ's, like why are you so cold and distant. That really angers her.

Is it a good idea to let her know how much her talking to the OM hurts me and the family? Ask her why she feels she needs to talk to him? Should I call the OM?

WIC

WIC,

My background 1st:

My wife had an EA for about a year with a co-worker. I found out and fell apart. I found this site about 3-4 weeks after dday. I was told to call the OMwife (OMW). I guess I was so lost that I didn't question it, I just did it. I called her and she knew already. We met for lunch to go over the whole thing. This is very important. We both agreed to call each other if we found any contact.

My wife changed jobs and after 3-4 months of NC she started to come out of the fog and work on our M with me. She would never have come back to me if she saw or talked to the OM.

Today she hates him and thinks he used her and all that crap.


So back to you.

Please answer Marsh's questions. I feel that it is very important to cover these issues before we can go on.

Best wishes,

The OM is not married, supposedly works at another store. I went to the gym this morning (it is her day off) and checked redial and saw that she called him while I was gone. I finally asked her why she has to keep calling him. She said she is infatuated with him, he makes her happy. I told her that every time I find out about her talking to him, that it makes me lose a little hope that we can recover. She said he told her to get counciling and work on if for her marriage. (I think if I call him it would cause more damage than good). I said she has stated that she wants to work on our marriage, but every time she talks to him we don't make any progress. I told her that it disrepects me when she talks to him and I feel she is using her energy towards him and not towards me. That when she is angry at me, he makes her happy; which puts me in a lose-lose.

She started getting irritated that I am home on her day off making her upset (LB?) and she needs to decide what she wants to do. If I want her to move out, than she will. Now she is mad at me again, so I am sure I screwed up. But, I couldn't go on knowing she is talking to him. I wanted to expose that I knew and how I felt about it.

Quickly losing hope.

WIC...listen to Lake...and see where your focus is...

Lake said to you, "Say "I" statements" and you immediately, like whiplash, responded "she seems reluctant to talk in that manner."

About YOU...not her. You sharing. You have no control over any other being on the planet, WIC...please stop focusing where you have no control...that's crazymaking, and you're choosing that for yourself.

You're here...you matter...and everything changes when YOU change...know that's not backwards...that's forwards. When you try to change HER, you abuse HER.

Stay with your focus on you, where only you have control and power. Know that to define anyone else but yourself is abusive...an attack...causes lots of harm...as in "Why are you so cold and distant?" which DEFINES her as cold and distant...when the truth is you perceive her that way, though she may not be. Don't define.

For you.

When you choose to abuse others, you will abuse yourself. Bashing yourself for stuff in the same manner...causes tons of pain inside...get safe for yourself to listen to yourself...know what you do...accept who you are...and change for YOU, not her or the marriage...because you're worth it. You're half of the marriage.

The more you are aware and accepting of your stuff as your own...the more accepting and aware of her stuff you'll become. I swear...this is pure justice in God's design.

When she begins with OM...do three predetermined, progressive boundary enforcements...first one, "Ouch." Just that only. Indicates you feel pain...doesn't blame it on anyone...establishes this isn't what we do now...she does again immediately, you say what I wrote above...if she continues once you return...remove yourself longer.

About exposure...is OM married? Girlfriend? Did you expose to her? I didn't see your reply to MM.

When you feel needy...state it, don't demonstrate it. Tunnel inside yourself to see where it's coming from and share what you find.

You can do this...your focus will be your undoing, though, if you remain consumed in her stuff...which abandons your own. You'll feel more abandoned...that's the signal.

LA

No one should be moving out of your home. Don't talk about that to her--don't indicate that you think she should move out or that you should move out.

What are you doing when you are at home on her day off? Are you doing anything interesting? Improving yourself, making use of the time to get into hobbies or work that needs to be done around the house? keep busy in a productive manner.

Keep in touch with the thoughts inside you that are normal, pre wayward thoughts. Then share those thoughts with her.

Examples: Remember when you wore that shirt when we vacationed in San Francisco?...I thought I could never get enough of your laughter that night.

Last night when you said good night, your tone of voice was so sweet and soft, it made my heart melt like that time on the beach....

I just realized that I feel the same way about (daughter)'s success in (whatever) as I did the night she was born.

You have to get back to the good feelings and closeness and happiness that you have with her. You have to stay away from the frantic, clingy, angry feelings that her wayward behavior brings out in you. You can't smother her with rememberings of good times but you have to be able to get back to that place. But, at the same time, you have to act as though you plan to move on with your life and be the best man that you can be. I don't think this is at all fair but it is what you need to do.

Others can probably provide you with better guidance and give better examples of "I" statements. I was one of the lucky ones in all this EA type mess and did not have to win my FWH back.

I love what some people on this site say about plan A: It is good for you and makes you a better you with or without your wayward spouse. Plan A is good for YOU. You count, you can improve yourself for yourself. Get in touch with yourself for the sake of you and your life on this earth.
Lake

My friend,

Keep in mind that these affairs are addictions (there is even a drug involved here called Dopamin, but I'll stay away from that discussion).

The ONLY way she gets her drug is when she contacts him. Just like an alcoholic that isn't ready to quit, she'll start hiding and sneaking around to get her drug. Even if she wants to stop, she can't just slap on an nicotine patch and get over the guy

How do you stop this addiction cycle?
1. You expose. You exposed to her family, this is good. You should have also exposed to their workplace.

2. You let her face the consequences of her actions. Be in plan A, but also let he know you know what she is doing and that it is hurtful to her family. In my case, every time I caught the FWW in contact, I told her mother. Worked great.

3. Snoop. Setup a home phone recorder. Odds are that her phone calls are not as innocent as she wants you to think. Get to a Radio Shack, get a voice activated digital voice recorder, a phone connector for it (that lets you record via a phone jack), and a power cord (so you don't have to use batteries, cuz they wont last long at all).

Once you hear their conversations, you'll have a much better idea of what is going on in their little fantasy world.

You are totally correct on the addiction definition. I believe I am following steps 1 and 2. I let her know every time I find out that she is hurting the family. I also told her Mom, who was not happy because my WW just told her she wasn't talking to OM anymore.

I don't have the stomach for no.3. I am pretty much assuming it is more than she is telling me. I believe and have told her, that as long as she is in contact our marriage will not recover.

I will continue to expose and try to break the cycle.

WIC