LA,

I read this numerous times and it really sunk in to what I was doing. We had a couple of "deep" conversations this afternoon and tonight. I listened and only expressed what I wanted and what I was doing. Normally I try and tell her how she should be thinking.

I felt almost relieved to tell her how I really felt and not holding back. Do you recomend that I read "Lovebusters" or is there another book I should read first?

WIC

Lake,

I have been trying to golf once a week with friends, met old boss for lunch, visited a friend at his work, go to the gym every day. I also have been doing some work around the house. It is just that when she has been home, I am home and it is driving her crazy. Not to mention, I am tired of not being on an assignment.

I will really work on not trying to "read" her every thought or mood swing.

Question to everyone: She said today that she will go to marriage counciling, but she will schedule it and she doesn't want to be pushed. She said she knows she needs to seperate herself from the OM. I told her that if we are going to go to counciling and try and recover, that I had one boundary and that was No Contact. If (when) I find out that she contacts him again, do I expose it to her again and let her know the pain she is still causing? Until she states that she won't contact him anymore, do I just keep exposing? Once she does say she won't contact him anymore and I find out that she does, how do I handle?

WIC

Love Busters first gets my vote, WIC. Thank you for reading my post...choosing to do so numerous times...I get that a lot...truly honors you and I am grateful for your effort to understand.

Huge congrats on putting into action listen and repeat...great choice you made...sounds like you recognize your urge to be safe by telling her what to think and feel. It's a false reality...and you want both hands on the real kind.

When you read Love Busters, find all the false payoffs for the DJs...that helps you to stop them, even in your thoughts.

About NC...stay present, too. If you are plotting all your actions ahead of time, then you aren't present and you aren't acting from your beliefs. With NC, I had to experience nearly three months of it because my DH worked with OW...you can do this. Stating, "I know you chose to have contact with OM today" is a powerful statement. It's respectful and owns reality. Don't under-rate it.

Express appreciation and acknowledgment...when judgment and LBs get removed, there's a free-fall feeling...totally outside your routine...can really up your fear (false fear management through LBs creates this). Know it, state it, and your fear level will drop.

Choosing to be O&H and own your stuff holds TONS of relief...I'm delighted you experienced it. You felt it from your choice to own and share...which is acknowledging and loving self.

Affirm her stuff as hers, "I hear you do believe you need to separate yourself from OM and that you have felt pushed by me. I believe I've pushed from my fear of losing our marriage and family. I'm working on not reacting from my fear."

For faith...remember...downward spirals are real...so are upward ones...

LA

Thanks La,

Since our emotional day (Wed.) I only brought up the R once. Thursday morning, because I was feeling very stressed that she would think that because I am able to talk about the A and the OM, that it would somehow justify it in her head or make it OK to contine contact. I told her that I wanted to clarify one thing. That I do not condone what she is doing, that it hurts me and the family every time and that I want it to stop. She said she knows and didn't take it like I perceived. Then I changed the subject to something on the TOday show.

Questions and concerns:

She said she would contact a therapist and didn't want to be pushed. How long do I wait to ask her about whether she has made the appointment?

One of the hard parts of all this is that in the last month, we have hardly fought (except when she feels overwhelmed with R talk), have had good conversation and been affectionate. I always thought divorce/Seperation would be at the end of a lot of fighting and nasty feelings towards each other. She very rarely brings up the R or seperating, unless I confront her with her conversations with the OM or bring up the R. I am wondering what would happen if I don't bring it up? I am left to believe that she would escalate to a full PA, if it wasn't constantly exposed. I am not sure that I will have the strength to continue fighting for the M, if that happens at this point.

So, I am working on me; re-establishing relationships, taking up golf, trying to be happy, learning how to shop for myself again (the WW has bought all my clothes!!!) and make sure that I am as prepared as possible regardless of either outcome.

The uncertainty of my future is overwhelming at times. The fact that the OM has so much "power" over my WW at this time is frustrating and sad. I am trying hard to follow the posts and focus on myself, as I have finally come to the conclusion that I can't control anything else.

I see glimpse of my "old" WW, she seems to re-engaging some of her friends again. Isn't trying to be off on her own all the time (as she was). But I also know that these are jsut baby steps and may not be steps at all.

Sorry about the rambling, but I have had a lot on my mind and I feel like I am overwhelming the couple of family and friends that I have confided in.

WIC

WIC,

First, worrying is like praying for what you don't want. When you are consumed in the future, you aren't in the present--so you're not in reality. Plan A is about being the reality bringer. Soak your feet in it.

Would you consider part of why you choose to believe OM has so much power over WW is because you believed you had, prior to the A?

If you keep your focus on her, what she's doing (by degrees or radically) different...then you'll step over your own stuff...your own changes, won't you? You can ramble all you want...gets us where you're going, is my belief...

Take feeling overwhelmed as a signal...to aid you. You for you. It means you're going where you have no control...into her stuff, or the future, or the past.

How are you coming on your DJs?

To dispel your routine choice to DJ, learn to ask..."I was thinking that because I can talk about the A and the OM, you may think that justifies contact with OM in some way. Am I close?"

When you come home from playing golf, do you share your experience with her? About buying your own clothes, owning your own choices?

LA

LA,

You are right I need to spend more time focusing on what I can do to make today positive. I think I am doing ok on the DJ's. This morning she was back to being a little distant (my impression), could have been the R, me being home, the kids have been stressful, etc. I did say a word about it. Tried to be positive, give her space, wished her a good day at work and told her what I was going to do. I like the way you restated how I should bring the A and OM up.

When I came home from golf, I told her all about it in a very excited fashion. I told her how I really want to continue golfing with these guys even after I get my assignment. I told her about buying my own clothes, she said that she thought it was because I thought that is what she wanted. I told her it was about me and my need to re-establish who I was and learn to be less dependent upon her.

WIC

WIC,

Would you consider that her buying all your clothes once felt like an act of love...like you were receiving love from her?

I ask this because I believe whole-heartedly that you buying your own clothes was partially from the need to be less dependent on her...usually, our truth has many reasons...considering the one above. State it. Ask if it was...so that you're not cutting off one of her languages (gifts) entirely. You're just acting from love for yourself, as well.

Thank you for sharing with her about golf...how you feel, what you experienced. Interdependency is healthy...doing for each other...dependency, not so healthy...demanding each other complete the other...

Getting comfortable with the difference is desirable; knowing the difference is essential.

What are her ENs? Her language of love?

LA

Her buying clothes was definitely once an act of love and I think partially still is. When she does it out of the blue and not because I need something. It would at times feel like a chore to her. She picked me out a shirt on Wed. and she seems to enjoy that.

I think her EN's include affection, conversation and I think admiration. Affection because she is a hugger to all her friends. I think that I definitely was letting that down. I have been hugging her a lot lately, and I think that has a lot more to do with my needs than hers. She even said "you have become quite the hugger lately"!

Conversation, which had definitely become stale in our marriage and she spend a lot of time talking to friends and family (and the OM).

Admiration, I tend to be passive by nature and I feel she loses respect for me in those situations. She admires what I have accomplished in my career, but I definitely think this is an area I need to improve for my self and her.

WIC

Consider what you are doing...with golf, clothes, your focus on yourself...as part of you being assertive, not passive. As well as the hugging...

And speaking of affection...get to know a lot of the forms of it...you may only consider hugging or known ones...

Affection can be expressed in gratitude, eye contact, a hand on the shoulder when walking through a room...moving hair out of the face and brushing her cheek...listen and repeat, staying present in a room with her, even without words...touching feet during sleep...a kiss good morning, goodbye and good night...

Big kudos on choosing to meet the affection EN...and recognizing it. Affection to me translates into acknowledgment...I see you, I'm aware of you, I'm with you.

Part of admiration is appreciation, as well. And again, has acknowledgment in it...thank you for the shirt today...I think you have great taste. I like wearing clothes you've picked out for me because my language of love is gifts and I feel loved.

See how conversation, affection and admiration work together? They overlap...when you stay aware.

And you are.

Thank you so much for your posts and sharing...you may also find you admire her efforts to connect with her friends (not OM) and it might inspire you to connect with her more. Assertive is knowing yourself and sharing yourself...actively, with an intent to connect...not giving to get.

LA

I have a question, WIC. What are you doing to break up this adultery? Reading through all your posts, I see you’ve been evading questions on exposure and, frankly, that's your most powerful weapon at this point.

Second, you're getting the cart before the horse. Couples counseling will do absolutely NO good while WW is still in the adultery. She will lie to the counselor's face in counseling and ZERO progress will be made. Don’t waste your money. When the time comes, you MUST be highly involved in the selection of a counselor to ensure you get one who is (A) well experienced, and (B) very marriage oriented. If you leave it to your WW, you might wind up with someone who will listen to her (fabricated) litany of complaints and turn to you, asking why you don’t agree to an immediate divorce. Break up the adultery, THEN check into counseling.

Third, seems to me you're bargaining (about counseling, NC, etc.) with someone you'd be better off visualizing as an alien who's beamed down from the mother ship and absorbed your WW. Don't bother expecting integrity and honorable actions from the alien because the alien can't be truthful and won't (and in fact can’t) honor its commitments.

Oh, btw, your WW is unhappy with you being around so much lately because you're interfering with her adultery. With you there, she isn’t free to call or visit him (or perhaps have him come visiting) nearly as often as she would like. The alien is pissed off that you’re being so rude in not removing yourself from the home so it can indulge itself with more contact.

As of now, I have exposed the A to her Mom, her sisters, my Mom and a couple of friends. I also have been checking her cell phone records and house phone records. In addition, the most recent discovery was by hitting the redial. This is about all the people I feel comfortable exposing too and who have the most pull with her. They have been telling her that she needs to stop, focus on her marriage. I also let my WW know every time I discover that she has been talking to him.

I have not received a solid response regarding contacting the OM and I am not sure how effective that would be. I learned from the WW's mom, that he is divorced but single. The WW's mom says he works at a different store, so there is no contact at the work place. In addition, I have showed up at her work unnanounced to see how she would react. She always seems unphased, like she is not hiding anything at work. I have only been able to prove the phone contact.

Beyond this, I am not sure what else I can do.

WIC

I don't know if you've read it already or not but if you haven't, you might take a look at the link I have in my signature block about organizing a marital recovery.

Good luck.

Just read it again and am trying to follow as best I can.

Thanks for the advice.

Spoke to my WW's best friend today. She said she spoke to the WW on Thursday. My WW told her that she is going to get us in to therapy, but she thinks she has waited because she knows she will have to end contact. She also told her friend that the OM told her to get therapy and work on her marriage for her kids. Her best friend responded, "how big of him". BF told me that when she talked to her in the past she never mentioned the impact on the kids, she also felt that she is second guessing all of this.

Little steps, I guess. Will continue monitoring contact with OM (I am sure she will continue to contact, but will try and be more sneaky about it) and working on my Plan A.

WIC

Longhorn, good to "see" you helping this BS.
Betrayed, Longhorn knows what he is saying. Take him muy seriously.
I lost my M because I didn't do exposure and Plan B. I waited too long while my WH cheated with his "friend."

All the years I have been on the Boards, the most successful results came from following the MB plans, which Longhorn has restated for you.

BTW, my WH probably never got into the sack with his "friend." It still broke up our M.

Thanks for the feedback.

I am trying to follow the recovery plan. The roller coaster is ******, especially when I look at WW and she seems like an Alien to me. I am exposing as often as I get new proof that she is continuing contact. The challenge is that she turns away from those that I have exposed to and uses the OM as support, among other things.

Continuing to work on myself, while not losing hope. At the same time, mentally preparing for Plan B. Which feels like more of a reality as time goes by.

WIC

Hey, WIC,

I wanted to pop in and say hi. And to second Bellevue's hooray for Longhorn. You can't have a better poster on your side, IMO.

Great to see you, Longhorn!

Normal stuff, WIC...her turning away from those supporting her in her marriage...which leaves her more lonely in her desire for her drug. Takes what it takes, WIC...are you getting this isn't about you? Are you getting this is like a drug...so when you choose to see her as wanting OM's support, know it's like heroin...not real support, 'k?

Getting a fix--that shortcut to feeling good. Plan A gives her a healthy drug at home...where you listen and repeat, respect and acknowledge her choices...schedule to have some really great RC time together...because you both had that drug at the beginning, when you wooed and relished each other. Put into place those times, too, right now. More powerful drug now because you both know each other, are real to each other...so it's far more potent...makes the OM's supply look fake.

And it is.

Roller coaster feelings are worth it...helps you get to stuff you might not have...about you, in you. The more open you are to feeling your feelings, tracing them to your beliefs...the better you'll come out of all this...like your own best friend. Your W is an alien...you're looking at WW...not who your W really is...so don't judge, read, measure or judge her moods...use this time to really see she's an individual, who has chosen to love and be present for you in the past, and can make that choice again.

If you see her struggle as a struggle against you, and not her, you'll fight her back...instead of fighting for your marriage.

Thank you for continuing to post...please hug yourself for your honesty, for sharing who you are...great practice for sharing yourself with her, too.

LA

Thanks LA,

Longhorn has been absolutely correct on the drug. I spent the day working on myself (bought me a couple of new golf clubs), went the the WW's mom's house for dinner. WW was acting very different around her family (which I was glad they could see it in person). Mom whispered to me that she loves her daughter, but she doesn't like this person right now. The fog in full effect.

I didn't judge, didn't comment, just went with it and stayed positive through the visit.

I am still struggling with the NC (I am positive it hasn't happened, she just has become more sneaky). I am encouraged that she is admitting to her friend that she has to stop contact, can't happen soon enough. I am trying to decide if I should expose to anymore friends, worried about the impact at this point.

We are going on a "date" tomorrow to a basketball game with tix I got as a B-day present. Will be a challenge to be happy, positive and keep the R talk from slipping out.

Quick question, How should I handle Valentines day? I was planning on buying her some perfume she wants and card (not too mushy, not the time for that), any thoughts?

WIC

I NEED HELP!

I just did a reverse phone search on the OM's cell phone. Turns out he works at the store with my wife and he is who I was starting to suspect.

What now? Do I tell her to quit or move out? Do I let the store manager know? I seriously don't know how I am going to get past this.

Need advice before she gets home.

WIC

Yes to the V-day present and card...where it states your truth...

Yes to exposing to her company that they have two employees engaged in an affair which is wrecking a marriage.

Yes to exposing to OM's parents, GF (he may well have one) and ex-wife...find out if he's really divorced...none of this info from WW...she's not a source of truth right now.

I know you don't know how you'll get past this right now...can you trust your future self to deal with that? Can you leave that question to the self who will know more about himself, who he really is and what he is capable of?

Do not tell her you know OM works in the same store...exposure first. You may use exposure as a threat...which negates what it is for...spreading truth. Use your time and money to find the truth independently of her...

Write down your predetermined, progressive boundary enforcements...focus on your intent and how to expose more widely. I think a Private Investigator is important when you don't know exactly who the OM is...who can get you truth...run a background check. Truth is what you want most...then to share it through exposure.

You are going on a date tonight with your WW...which is Plan A, big time. That's when you get to be authentic, have fun, look at her with fresh eyes...to focus on remembering, practice being present and know that saving your marriage saves your children. It's a hero's journey and is no way easy...

Did you read Surviving An Affair? I mightily advise it...for your enrichment.

You can do this. You are not alone.

LA