Thanks again ARK for the second day now you and others continue to keep me focused.
staying focused on the things that need to be done sure helps to keep ones head up

Listen to ARK!!!!

at what point in this process will the ww even listen to the idea of fixing the marriage. So far she just shuts me out and says what dont you understand We're Done

It won't be until after NC with the OM. My WW broke it off with the OM in November and there is no discussion of fixing the M. I would say probably around six months after NC. You are in for a long ride.

Right now you may have chaotic feelings.

You need to regain some self-respect and protect your children, home and yourself including marital assets.

I would have this wrapped up and nailed down no later than when they return from overseas (without the kids - I hope that boundary has been settled)

If you wait too long - they will come back from their honeymoon and take over your life and the kids will have a new daddy.

I saw it happen to a friend - they even talked him into changing the kid's names under the OM's name - he gave all his parental rights to the OM - this was under the guise - it was better for the kids.

This blatant disrespect to you is very disturbing.

Personally, if it were me, I'd put her passport through the shredder. I wouldn't allow her to go. Don't be accomodating. This is WAR! Stand up for yourself.

The Kids will NOT !!! be going on that trip but they have
already promised them to go on another -- I'll deal with that later.

I have thought about getting rid of her passport - still in my safe. But i don't think that that would be legal and I am trying to take the high road here.

I am happy (and unhappy)to say that my kids understand what is going on. They are 11 and 14 and very perceptive. They both have expressed their bonds to me and their anger/pain/ hurt .... towards their mother.

The WW and OM thought that everyone would accept their transgressions and live happily ever after.
They are finding out that almost nobody is accepting it, Unfortunatly I think that it is making them move even quicker towards dissolving my marrage and getting on with theirs.

Every day is a battle -- I still cannot see an end to it all

a nice manly thread to read

HERE [color:"red"] <~~~ this is war! [/color]

I don't know that it would be illegal to have the passport magically disappear. I would do it. Why don't we get some more opinions here?

I am hoping that maybe after WW & OM spend a week totally together maybe they will find there are times that are not all fun and they are not perfect. or maybe just get it out of their system and come back to reality.

If anyone would have asked me 2 months ago what to do if your W had an affair I would have had a quick decisive answer.

Still not sure if I really want her back after all the lying, I may be able to forgive the affair but the lying... will take forever to regain back the trust.

heres the latest in this disgusting saga.

I have found out that the OM is a manipulating, controlling idiot (suprise)
I "accidentally" heard a conversation.
I could not believe the way this guy would go from all the gushy talk to you need to get away from your H now and on and on with put downs towards me and telling her what to do and say.
She WW is not usally the kind of person that would take that kind of talk. Must be the alien
Much of their conversation was their mutual complaining about their BS. I guess this is their big tie to each other.
and their talking about their marriage and plans to live together?
Again I wonder if it is worth the effort anymore to fight for her. I love her deeply but this is almost too much, I am going to hate to see her crash and burn from this.
She is a willing participant in this scumbags master plan

What can I do but sit back and watch her destroy herself and family. She has shut everyone else out.

reachingout...

there is a thing we talk about here...it's called the WS fog....

we use that term not to deny what a WS feels or say....but because it is easier than saying...

my previously normal spouse is currently so full of crap and speaking so much crap that I can't beleive they are the same person I married....


affairs are built
lie upon lie upon lie upon lie...

irrationalization upon irrationalization upon irrationalization...

this person you are dealing with now is NOT your wife...
and if she this is the real her then you will be glad glad to be away from such a person...

but the truth is the wife you see know is in total
self survival....

see, to feed the affair the brain plays tricks on the affairee...

re-writes history so that instead of having a BS that was OK...the BS becomes incarnate of evil..

this justifies the affair...

ALSO all the good emotions from the spouse must become BAD to feed the affair.....

It is perfect news that the OM is a controlling baffoon...
that will help you as this affair plays out...

it is perfect that they spend energy discussing you....

YOU really if this was a great love affair...would be a non entity in their lives....
stay the center of focus...and it feeds the falseness of their affair...as they only have YOU and his WIFE to focus on....

don't have look at reality...

you must know believe that 5 months from now this women in front of you is not and will not be the same one...

(though we all get there are no garuntees...but people usually burn out from such chaos.....)

this is why you go to plan A mode....

to be opposite of her expectations and interactions...

infact it is imperitive to keep her guessing...

she expects anger...a fight...don't do it...
especially don't do it if she is baiting you a lot of poor spouses (male) end up with restraining orders in their own homes after a set up from a WS...
be ready
be protective...

be KIND to your wife...it is the LAST thing she expects..

no drippingly sweet but kind.....

you also need to go back to HIS wife and discuss her plans for survival and see if she is willing to come here...for her own sanity as well

have you read about plan A
did you read bobpures post..someone kind bumped it the other day...it can be bumped again if you need it

ARK

Update

Now the OM and WW I guess are tired of waiting for me to get pissed and move so thay are considering getting a place together,

The WW wants to split our assets first, I am still going to stall I guess?

Is it time for Plan B when she moves out or do I still stick with Plan A for a while and wait to see if after some time together things will fall apart?

No splitting of assets, you only talk M, your lawyer does D. Get a good one. Expose, Expose, Expose! Who have you exposed to on OM's side? Have you found his family and told them?

Jim, Exposing the OMs family is a little tricky for me.

I want to be very carefull to protect the children involved here - My daughter and the OM's daughter are good friends
My daughter knows whats going on but I dont think that the OMs kids know about the affair just that hes getting divorced from his wife. I don't want to put the kids in the middle.
I had a brief talk with the OM's wife, but she was upset and did not want to discuss it. I don't feel that recontacting her is going to be very beneficial. Let me know if you guys still think differntly about that.

You are not responsible for his children. If his children are harmed as a result of this, that is his fault. You need to protect YOUR children from living in a split household. Contact his parents and siblings. He probably hasn't been completely honest with them. If they are an upstanding family that may let him know that your wife is NEVER welcome in their family. This can put tremendous pressure on the OM. My OM's father did a good job of telling off his son. I don't think that you understand that this is war. Act accordingly.

Every day is frustrating.

Even the days where I feel that I have done everything reasonable to be the good guy here it gets thrown back at me as a negative.

If you can believe this the WW is mad at me for being a good father now. She accuses me of trying to be "the father of the year" as if that was a bad thing. Early on she had indicated that the way I interacted with the kids was a part of the reason for wanting to leave, now that I have improved that -- she sees it as a problem. And by the way I always thought that I was very active with my chidren, now I KNOW just how much my children love and respect me.

I know that I can't just promise change it has to actually happen, so why does it seem to do no good? Her A with the OM jst seems to continue to get stronger.

Just when I think I am dealing with this better the depression, anxity, and Knots in the stomach return. I shouldent feel like the bad person here!

reachingout...

your wife is acting the WS by the script..

villify you
makes OM good....

the whole key to a good plan A ...and did you read the post bumped up.....
bobpures
plan A get grounded here
etc...

have you read about plan A

Plan A is allll about dong and saying and expecting NOTHING in return and I do mean N O T H I N G

it is planting seeds that may take months to show signs of any life...

if you give and do to and for your wife with NO expectations...it can really free you up to give and do a lot of things...

ALSO
you must and can confront your wife on the reality of her behaviors in a non love busting way...

she says you are trying to be Father of the year...

you say back calmly no my love I am trying to be kind and stable for the children...no more and no less what they need from their parents...

don't argue
don't powerstruggle...

do realize what type of scum behavior both are engaging in..

this fantasy of their happiness in total denia of the reality of the pain they will bring to all they touch...

your wife is gonna fall hard hard hard....

even if someone is very very unhappy in a marriage...and married to the scum of the earth...

even they need time to move slowly and process the reality of change...

your wife isn't like that..and nor were you the worst on earth....

yet they move at the speed gobbling up actions that are chaotic and false never processing a thing or a decision

they are both setting themselves up to fall hard...
because they are doing wrong to all they touch...

in Tolstoy's Anna Karina the two affair partners end up together....
and the life they built is a living [email]he@@[/email]

it's a perfect illustration of the using of everyone and anyone to get what they think they desire most...

only to find that it was empty the whole time...

read those posts...understand plan A inside and out...

pray for God's Grace to send you humility to see how truly wounded your wife is as she layers cloak upon cloak of insane choices and actions.....

seek your doctor for antidepressants...

find a close friend (male) in whom you can confide and cry and rant to....

fill your children's life with joy and continiously invite your wife to join in with you all....

take care of yourself..
read bobpures post..
click on my name and click view recent posts...as I bumped them recently and they should show up there....

ARK

ARK,

Yes, I have and continue reading about plan A
have also read some of Bob Pures

I have and continue to do my best with it.

I am not sure if I am good at it though as I have described in previous post it seems almost everything that I do seems to be taken the wrong way. I know that is part of the fog but its taken a while for me to get used to it.

It seems that all of our conversations get directed to the relationship or housing arrangements or splitting of assets,not by my choice but WW always takes in that direction.

I just typed about two pages of rants then deleted them from this post, I relized after writing all of these feelings and then reading through them that it was beneficial to me.
For two reasons
1. it felt good to get it out
2. after reading what I wrote I relized where I could do better with plan A.

I'll start writing a personal journal today.

In the mean time I'll continue to come here for support and issues I still need advise on.

Thanks again esp. to ARK for support it really helps.

Reaching Out,

Email me at the address in my signature line below.



Your wife is an affair addict

EVERYTHING she says or does will transpire through her addiction lens

1. If it helps the affair it is discussed or pursued

2. If it confronts, interrupts, combats, etc. the affair it will be resisted, with prejudice

3. If it neither helps or hurts the affair...it will be ignored (like her kids the last few months most of the time unless she needs to give the illusion to OM she is a responsible and loving parent)

Now that you've found MB and discovered her affair OF COURSE she's in the #2 area. You are taking action and trying to save your marriage. You are trying to maintain HOPE. All of which confront her addiction, hence you seemingly believe you are making it worse. IT CAN'T GET ANY WORSE. Trust the plan and it will get better...at least, for YOU.

Remember this to (from the main website)...Dr. Harley's words:

There are 3 states of interpersonal relations

1. Intimacy
2. Conflict
3. Withdrawal

Conflict with your WW is much better than withdrawal. Appeasment will NEVER work.

Additionally, what Jim said above about withdrawing 3/4 of the liquid assets is dead on (25% per family member). I don't care if the equity in the house will later cover anything she may abscond with from your joint accounts now or very soon. WS's live in the now. Without cash, real life consequences can ensue. At the very least they will burn through the OM's money and NOT your families money. Let her pursue more than 1/2 the equity in the house in court 6-12 months from now. Today...restrict her access to fundage.

DON'T move out. But I'll get into that privately when you email me.

Mr. Wondering