If you talk to MIL and FIL again, do not let them know that you are spying on WW, but let them know that although you do not have any proof, you are 99% sure she is having an affair. She wants a D, so she can seriously pursue the OM. Let them know of the coming home drunk at all hours of the morning several nights a week. I'm sure she hasn't told them that. You don't want them tipping your WW off that you will be spying, but let them know your suspicions and your intentions of saving your M.

You are obviously in denial. I am 99.9% sure that your WW has slept with at least one other man in the past six months, possibly more. What do you think she was doing out until all hours of the morning? She was getting drunk and having sex. Duh!!! The quicker you snap out of your own fog, the quicker you can start snapping her out of her fog. You are not stupid. Your WW is having an A. I was in denial as well. My WW met up with a guy out of town during the weekend. I didn't believe it until I got the idiot OM to admit it. My WW never did.

I'm very sorry Jay

but your wife is 100% absolutely having an affair

I wouldn't say anything to anyone UNTIL you get some evidence of such to at least convince yourself.

Like I said, this is so far down the road, a few days or a week of snooping will not matter.

BTW, the operative splice of the word "gentleman" is "MAN". There is nothing creepy or ungentlemanlike about spying on YOUR wife and getting to the truth about YOUR LIFE. YOU matter, too. Discovering the truth doesn't make the truth about her conduct any less true & hurtful. It's her conduct and adultery that is inappropriate and immoral...not the discovery of it.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - RENT a car. Get a hat and a fake mustache and a wig. Follow her into the bar or restuarant and get close enough to figure out who it is. Heck, he's likely going to be spending the night there tonight or her with him. I'm betting even your daughter knows who he is. You know, the guy she spends all her time talking to on her cell phone, text messaging and/or emailing when she is actually home.

p.p.s. - Are there currently any court orders mandating custody of your daughter, if not, then you have every right to get her, especially if your wife is not home.....never mind...I need to go back and read Part 2 of your story...I completely missed it when we cross posted.

UVA's WAR ROOM <~~~ good reading

Jay,

I just finished reading Part 2.

No divorce or separation has been filed.

YOU have just as much right to custody of your daughter as she does.

YOU can't get in trouble for kidnapping her because she is YOUR child.

You've done a poor job of demanding contact with your daughter the last few weeks but we can help you change that.

Next time...and I think there will be a next time...you pick up your daughter from the police or school because she's in trouble or maybe even drunk or on drugs right out of your wifes current home (assuming wife is NOT there supervising her)....YOU can take your daughter home and immediately file a protection or emergency temporary custody hearing on her behalf.

We'll have to game plan on this.

Additionally, are you still paying for WW's car??? You gave her money the other day, why?

YOUR WIFE IS WAYWARD AND EVERYTHING SHE SAYS AND DOES IS FILTERED THROUGH HER ADDICTION TO ANOTHER MAN. It is evident she still cares about you and feels slightly guilty but TODAY she is a wayward wife. Do not trust or believe anything she tells you. An alien has infected this woman you have known and loved since you were 15. SHE is not your wife and enabling this alien is getting you no where.

I am not criticizing you. You are stuck in a new city and have NO experience with infidelity. You ARE a little late in this process but you fortunately have finally found MB and you CAN do something productive and give yourself the best opportunity for a favorable outcome. At the very least, if you stick to this MB program YOU WILL MAKE IT.

Mr. Wondering

Jay,

You have some great posters posting to you. Please listen to them.

Your WW IS having an affair. Affairs change spouses into entirely different people.

Do as Mr. W suggested. Find out where she lives and SPY on her so you can get intel. Then we'll tell you how to use that intel to break up the A.

Find out everything you can.

And keep posting!

~ Marsh

Jayban, I hope you are still watching this thread. For your own sake, stick around and learn some more about affairs.

This site is founded by Dr. Willard Harley, a certified marriage counselor who has specialized in infidelity. Everyone who finds themselves posting here has, at least, some suspicion that something is dreadfully wrong with their marriage. It's a gut feeling that one should pay full attention too.

All of what your hearing may sound a bit dramatic and harsh, but those of us who have read 1,000's of posts here have seen the same dynamic over and over and over again. It's almost like Wayward's have a handbook.

You'd be crazy to believe a bunch of strangers on a website you just found without some investigation. Well, read every "first post" on each thread in the General Questions II forum and on the "Just Found Out" forum, and you will find a variation of your story in nearly every one. Perhaps excepting the man whose wife is having an affair with another woman.

Read about infidelity, starting at the home page. Learn about the dynamics of adultery, and how there is a very strong similarity to an addiction involved. Learn how all the Waywards act just like your W is acting. Learn how all the Wawards say the very same things your W is saying....and well as doing. It's all textbook behavior.

Harley's philosophy is counterintuitive, and some of the stuff doesn't make sense at first blush. But if you'll allow yourself to get over the shock, overcome the denial, and come to terms with the fact your W is in an affair, or more than one, then we can roll up our sleeves and get busy and teaching you how to counteract a great deal of what's taking place in your life.

There are hundreds of success stories. Each one started with one post on these forums. People here are real, and people here care enough to help others, freely giving their time to save newcomers, not unlike yourself, from making many of the mistakes we made along the way.

I'm truly sorry you are here, but I'd be even sorrier if you leave and continue to "trust" your Wayward Wife. Your life will get far worse now, whether you work on your marriage through Marriage Builders, or not, but at least here you'll have a chance to save your marriage, with the help of a tremendous support group, and a tried and true plan.

If you choose to go your own way, the pain will be no less and the chances of your marriage surviving will be left to dumb luck.

Your call...

What will you do?

Best wishes,
SD

Post deleted by Jayban

If I were to ever again become suspicious of my H in this way (fooling around)... getting a GPS would be the first thing I"d do...

I don't mess around with worrying too much

I prefer to take action

GOOD LUCK

Pep

Obviously she wasn't worried about YOU getting her pregnant.

Good job on getting the GPS tracker!

Here's a list of Do's and Don't's that Mr. W. brought here...

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP


~ Marsh

Well I am going to add my two cents. First, whether your W is having an affair (EA or PA) is hard to deny. She is giving you all the signs. If it is a work place affair, she can keep the evidence from you easily enough. After reading this and thinking about it, IMO, this may be a hard A to bust up – at least at first. You have done some self-examination and found some things lacking. I tend to agree that your W lost respect for you but that may have happened long before now and you are just seeing the results. Don't know for sure. I can't help but notice that your W married you at a very young age. It also seems like (if I did the math right) that she "had" to marry you. Do you remember how MIL and FIL felt about the marriage way back then? There may be some residual fallout now. I also can't help but notice that your daughter is more or less the same age that your W was when she got pregnant and I wonder if that is affecting her thoughts.

I will repeat my hypothesis that divorce is contagious. You say that everyone she works with is single or divorcing and that they celebrate divorces when they happen. Your W may have been observing all this and getting that "grass is greener" feeling. She may also not have established proper boundaries in her work relationships or at school. When you refused to go to those events, you were forcing her to make a choice. She made the one you didn't want. Okay so you have a young woman who is about to see her daughter leave the nest. She is going to school now because she couldn't before. She never had an adult life. She is growing and changing and may feel that you are an anchor holding her back. In short, I think your W may be having a MLC. She is at a crossroads. She feels young but may feel that time is running out for her. She made the decision long ago for no more kids. This may have been building up for many years and everything has finally come together to push her over the edge. She now works with people who show her that divorce is an accepted and apparently pleasant alternative to M. She is going to school and imagines a whole new life ahead. She leaves bankruptcy behind and gets a fresh start with first and last months' rent guaranteed. She feels she is growing/changing/evolving and you are not.

It also sounds like she is surrounded by enablers. If you do find an affair and want to expose, I'm not sure who you expose to unless OM has something to lose. In that sense, it is worth the effort to find out who OM is. Otherwise I would plan my exposure carefully because you are in enemy camp.

I guess my more immediate concern is for your daughter. Was she a wild child before the separation or is this her response to it? I ask this because this may also be something in W's subconscious mind. If daughter has been a wild child for a while, W may blame you for this as well and believe that separation may be in daughter's best interest although I'm sure that logic isn't quite clear to her. Regardless, you need to get your daughter attended to the best way you can. Your daughter is genetically predispositioned to replicate your W's adolescent behavior pattern. In other words, don't be surprised if she ends up pregnant in the near future if you aren't careful.

You need to get your own life in order and the sooner the better. I think, in a sense, W's boss gave you some good advice. I don't think your W is going to have a light bulb moment and "come to her senses". I think it will take some time. Also remember that divorce does not mean the M is over. Resist it if it is not what you want (i.e. don't give it to her on a platter).

Can I ask what is/was your profession and what does your W do at the company and also what is your W studying to be? Are you reading the literature that has been recommended to you?

There was something you said that made me think. Earlier in one of your posts she said that she didn't want you to tell anyone at work about your separation. This leads me to believe that she is "friends" with a man at work, and doesn't want her coworkers to connect the dots. This is good news because she and/or OM could get fired, and there will be extreme shame having to walk around the office once you've exposed to her HR manager, boss, and coworkers. I really think the OM works at your company. Do you have any friends in her department that might shed some light on who it might be for you?

I'm not just contradicting you Jim...you are on a good line of thought here

However...be careful contacting any "friends" at WW's work:

The friend, if there is one, is likely the OM himself. If ANY of her male co-workers HAS made any attempts to befriend you in the time she has worked there I'd suspect THAT guy the most.

The guilt, the danger, the riskiness, the "I want to be his friend and get him to like me so he doesn't kill me", the evil thrill and further denegration of you by befriending you, the spying on your frame of mind, etc. Waywards are sick and twisted.

BTW, I really like piojitos post too. Nice insight.

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted by Jayban

One thing about the bankruptcy:

IF you file now and get it...as is your right.

You should discuss what happens if you do end up divorced with your attorney.

I am concerned that later, in a divorce proceeding, the court may split up the remaining marital debt (i.e.-WW's debt) 50-50 or some other percentage and then you'll still have debt upon which you can not file bankruptcy.

In some states you are able to place most of the debt accumulated by a wayward spouse, accumulated in pursuit of such adulterous relationship, fully upon the wayward spouse. However, you have yet to discover any waywardness and determining when it started (and the debt started) may be difficult without FULL legal proceedings including depositions and scrutinized discovery...which you can't afford.

I still urge you to snoop. YOU will regret very much someday if you fail to seek the information, somewhat easily available to you, about the truth of your life. You can never go back to today and discover it. The time for action IS upon you. Your WW will NEVER just volunteer the truth.

Mr. Wondering

I don't know which one wears the pants in the IL family but I am guessing it is MIL. FIL may privately look like your greatest supporter but will refuse to conflict with MIL.

Does your wife only have her undergraduate degree? If so, what kind of job can she have at a university? Not a criticism - I would really like to know. It helps explain the context.

As far as DD goes, I ask that you be sincere in your concern for her. Sometimes the BH takes on a newfound role as protector and role-model for DD that wasn't there before the A. Maybe it is genuine or maybe it is to try to differentiate himself from the behavior of the WW (be the "good guy"). If it is the latter, DD will be further pushed away.

So WW is at some risk and OM is at some risk if exposed. Personally I would suggest finding out who it is and using that information to get her fired. She needs to get out of the environment she is in and that is the surest way. Forget that she may get angry. If you have the ability to get her fired and don't, you are enabling her A.

I would tread carefully with FIL. At best he is a wild card and at worst a direct source of information to WW. You say you have no evidence of the A. I'm not sure that matters. Unless FIL is just loaded, I don't think they will be too happy financing WW's education only to have her tank it. Think about casual comments to FIL such as "I checked on-line and since her affair started, her attendance has gone way down and her grades have dropped to a X". If he asks how you know she is having an affair, tell him one of her coworkers told you. Nobody can prove otherwise. If he isn't sharing this with her, he will be pissed at her performance in school (and maybe the A). If he is telling her all this, she will begin to fear her own shadow (i.e. one of her friends outed her - who was it???).

I guess in a case like this where IL's aren't clearly against the A, I prefer to use them as a disinformation source. It reminds me somewhat of a situation her about a year ago where MIL pretended to be on the side of BH but was really masterminding things for WW. FIL was a limp noodle. BH confided heavily in MIL. MIL told WW everything BH planned to do.

WW had to give up her education for yours. Has that ever been a cause of any resentment? Do you think she has ever felt that you have held her back? Was the education really important to her or is she doing it for the money?

Jayban,

These stories would be funny if they went so tragic to those involved. Funny in that they follow a very predictable script. Your wife is very upset that you went to her work. Why? Because you are messing with her fantasy. When affairs are exposed to the light of day, good people are bothered. She or her OM may lose his job. Her OM may drop her once the affair requires effort. Her OM may be married and be concerned about what is wife may do if the affair was exposed. All of these things mean that the illicit, fantasy life will likely end. Her “drug” supply is in jeopardy and she is not happy. From your perspective – So what? Shielding her from consequences will only enable her actions. Staring down her cruelty without caving in will let her know you are a man than cannot be manipulated or intimated. She will respect you more and realize she has potential for loss as well.

My recommendations:

1. Don’t take her crap. She will threaten divorce. This is only to manipulate you. If she wanted a divorce you would have been served. People serious about divorce get an attorney and just do it. They don’t try to hold it over their spouses head. Your response to “If you do this I will divorce you” could be “do what you need to do – I am trying to protect my family”.

2. Don’t get to worked up about custody. Your daughter is 15, if you divorce she will 16 or possibly 17. Every court I know of lets children of this age decide which parent they will live with. Your daughter will need to decide which life she wants” with you structured with a present, caring parent, or one without bounds with and absent, self-absorbed parent. Just be the best parent you can be and let the rest work itself out. This is really the same advice for parent who have no marital problems who have a problem teenager – you cannot fix some who is 15, 16, 17. Your influence is limited to what they allow you to have.

3. Talk with an attorney about your financial situation. When would filing bankruptcy be best for you. See if you can severe financial responsibility between you and your spouse. See if adultery matters in divorce proceedings in your state.

4. Don’t get too wrapped around the axle in snooping. All indications are she is having an affair. If true, you will come to know it. No one else really matters or needs to be convinced by incontrovertible evidence. Snooping will consume, distract, and depress you.

5. Consider the worst case scenario and determine you will be OK if it happens. You will recover financially. You will find a spouse that loves and respects you. You will have a good relationship with your daughter.

I also married very young, had difficulties, and recovered. Maintaining your own mental health though this is paramount. I wish you well.

Bob

Post deleted by Jayban

find who the OM is yet???

Just checking in buddy

Given those circumstances, I can see how MIL might actually be encouraging the divorce behind your back. Receptionist? It is amazing how many guys hit on receptionists. If your WW is an admiration junkie, it is a bad combination.

I disagree with the post about snooping. I do think you should find out who OM is. I don't think you'll have to work too hard. Waywards are careless because they think they will never get caught. They assume they are much smarter than us. Knowing who OM is will help guide your exposure plan. You have to get the A out in the open.