To Jayban's Mother-in-law and Father-in-law:

Parenting our children is something that never comes to an end, whether they are 5 or 35...or even 55, as long as we and they live. Our moral responsibility toward our children does not stop when they reach adulthood.

My now adult daughter and I have always had a somewhat rocky relationship, even though I love her more than my life. She has always been a "Daddy's Girl"; and, you can bet your boots that she played it to the hilt...and he sucked it up. One of the problems was her lack of respect toward me, and her daddy overriding me on issues and criticizing my parenting in front of her contributed greatly toward that.

For instance, she would go to him and ask him if she could go to a party. To his credit, he WOULD ask her, "What did your mama say?" Well, she never told him that she had not asked me, but said, "Oh, Mama doesn't care if you don't care." She never wanted to ask ME because she knew that I would first call the party-giver's parents and ask questions about if they were going to be at the party the whole time, if they were going to allow the kids to drink, etc. If the party wasn't chaperoned by responsible adults, and drinking was allowed, then NO, she was NOT going!

Anyway, she is now 32. Last year, I caught on to a "friendship" that seemed to be very inappropriate. After some observation and snooping, I did what I believe was best for my daughter. I called the OMW, and told her. Later, the OM came to me and told me that nothing was going on, except they were "friends". I told him that married people have no business with an opposite-sex friend who is not friends of BOTH spouses. He asked, "Well, what should I do?" I told him, "Write her a letter and tell her that you never want to see or talk to her again, let your wife read it, and let your wife mail it to her."

Well, I caught almighty h3!! for it. She hated me, blah, blah, blah. I told her that I would not apologize for doing what I thought was right.

Her father, whom I had asked to remain neutral, also got into the act by telling me, in front of her, that it was none of my business.

A couple of days went by, and she came out to the house, and we had it out again. We got it all out this time, without my H interfering.

She left the house, and since that day, we have gotten along very well. In fact, we get along MUCH better than we used to, and she is much more respectful toward me.

After she left my house, I finally had it out with my H, too. I told him that his interference in my relationship with MY daughter was coming to an end, and that I would never forgive him for betraying me to her.

A couple of weeks later, DD and I had a mild disagreement over something, and he started to butt in (taking her side, as usual, of course). I told him, quietly, but firmly, "This is between my daughter and me. Your interference is neither needed nor appreciated."

Since that time, DD and I continue to get along very well. She KNOWS that I love her. She KNOWS that I will risk losing her love for her well-being...because her well-being is more important than my feeling that she loves me.

My point is that enabling your child to do a horribly wrong thing is NEVER in your child's best interest, NO MATTER how old she is! Think about what you're doing to your granddaughter!

IMO, what you need to do is to tell your daughter this:

"It is WRONG to have a "friend with benefits" or even a male "friend" who is not a friend to your husband while you are still married. You might be "separated", but you are STILL MARRIED! Your husband loves you and wants to rebuild your marriage. He is working on HIS issues that led to your marital unhappiness, so you should work on YOUR issues WITHOUT any other man in the picture.

We will NOT help you get a divorce. We will NOT provide you with financial help. We will NEVER allow your so-called "friend" in our home. Dump this jerk, go back to your husband, and really work on your marriage."

THAT is what you should have told your daughter, instead of wringing your hands and saying, "Oh, well...whatever you feel like doing, honey..."

Believe me, you will not lose your daughter's love; you will GAIN her respect!

I would have to agree with a number of points made above.
Friends of the opposite sex, despite "separation", point to something shady. Spending the night with a male friend does indeed NOT look good. It seems, reading through the story, that WW thinks separation equals freedom to be single again. No, that is not the case.

What I see here is a walk-away-wife in the traditional sense who is overlooking the possibility of reconciliation with her husband because "she tried" and is going for the big D. I see a genuine effort from her husband to save this marriage by any means possible.

The ILS should have said "Hey, it appears we have been lied to by WW about her intent on moving out, or we've lied to you Jayban." There is NO DOUBT in my mind that WW started her EA before she ever moved out. In fact, I have no doubt her PA started before she left either.

It's not unreasonable to ask that WW quit seeing OM "as a friend" or whatever if she's truly intent on ANYTHING: D or Reconciliation. The lack of interest in "proving" anything by WW clearly shows that she is "involved" with OM. I thought that FIL sounded like a smart guy at first, but I'm having doubts now if he doesn't see through this "friendship with benefits" for what it is. Wrong.

I'm sorry Jayban, I respect your efforts. So long as WW stays involved with OM you will have a tougher time.

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This ought to buy you some time to plan A her before she files. If you do a good plan A you may find that she never gets around to filing. Once you have several months of plan Aing her it will set up plan B well. You have already done a good job removing the fantasy of her A. She feels dirty, she's on the defensive, and exposure will start to erode the illicit relationship. Your M is far from over as long as you decide to keep working towards it. Now is the time to work on yourself and make love bank deposits with no withdrawals. Seventeen years is a lot to throw away if her interactions with you are only positive from here on out. If she was dead set on D and being with the OM, she would file ASAP to get it over with no matter the financial difficulty. You may be able to ride this one out, so get your batteries recharged at home. It sucks that your IL's didn't put a swift end to the A, but you'll have other opportunities.

Glad to hear from you. Its always nice to return home isnt it? Yep - I agree - your family is worth the fight. That alone speaks volumes of your character.

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S,

Listen, you know who I am - we know each other very well, and have known each other for YEARS. I just read this entire story after hearing the entire story. I know the entire story. I know that Jay has been an [censored] to you. I know that you have been LESS THAN PLEASANT with him over the years.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR WHAT YOU ARE DOING NO MATTER WHAT B*LLSHIT YOU ARE SPOUTING NOW.

1. Have you worked on your marriage?.

That's my first question. Here's my second question for you,

2. Have you worked on your marriage?

I already know the answer. Look, everything here can be fixed. I've watched the videos, listened to the audio, screamed at Jay for his [censored] behaviour over the years. He knows there is no excuse, I see a repentant man who loves you truly, has a history with you, and has more motivation on earth than any other man you will EVER FIND to love you the right way.

Wake up! No, your parents did not do the right thing. This is, what, the third time they have inserted themselves into your marriage that I've seen? It's time for you two to talk like adults and work on your marriage.

Have you done marriage counseling? no.
Have you talked like adults about the problems in your marriage? No. Only one of you at a time. If I had the time I would fly down to Dallas myself and smack you both silly.

I read this entire story, and I realize he left out the story of your lives and the problems you have had. It appears to be the story of the last year in Texas.

Work out the past, work on the future. And then LEAVE the PAST in the PAST. Ever since I've known you that has been an issue. YOU ARE NOT PERFECT EITHER. Someone here said it perfectly: the problems in your marriage are shared. You withdrew from the same imperfect marriage that he was in too.

I agree with you, Jay has been an [censored] who deserves a 2x4 for his mistakes. I agree with him, your methods of "Trying" are BS. Remember, you were both very young and immature (until recent years, and even then...). But the bottom line is when I saw you together you were MADE FOR EACH OTHER AND LOVED EACH OTHER.

Dump this jock looking dude. I saw him, yes. Quit trying to live your dreams and Jay's through this punk. Yes, he is a punk. You ARE Married. It doesn't matter what damn State or planet you live on, YOU ARE MARRIED. He is a POS.

There is NO EXCUSE for what you are doing with this "Friend with benefits". Yeah, you moved out like a hurricane back in December and found a "friend with benefits" a few weeks later. Bullsh*t.

Quit pointing fingers at Jay's problems, I hear a truly apologetic man who has begged for the most important person in his life to forgive. I haven't heard you say one thing anywhere resembling remorse in these audio tapes. I know you anyways, so I know you are stubborn. So is he. But he's a changed man, I knew it the moment I saw him and talked to him. And he's still your husband. You are still his wife.

I realize it will take time to fix your issues. I agree, so long as you mess around with this scumbag then you are risking losing a truly wonderful man who CAN and WILL love you the rest of your life in a whole new way.

Quit saying "you" and start saying "I feel" like an adult with him, and you will find that something special can be rebuilt. You still love him. He loves you.

Get to it. And one more thing: I gave him the asschewing of his life, I'm not saying he is without fault.

Try to save your marriage S with him, whether you want to or not, you will NEVER regret it.

Sincerely,

An Old Friend from California

Powerful stuff, from a true friend. I hope for Jay's sake it cuts through the fog. Typically, though, trying to talk sense to a Wayward Spouse is a bit like throwing cotton balls at a crocodile.

In Jay's behalf, thank you for standing up for the both of them, as was needed. Friends who call it as they see it, regardless of the fallout, are the best friends. Jay and his W are lucky to have you in their lives.

SD

Stilllovingyou,

If there were more people like you out there, things like this would never happen. There is a saying that evil occurs when good people stand by and do nothing. I want to congradulate you for standing up and saying the right things.

I've spoken to Jay as well. Some of the things he has said that he's done, I'd like to slap him for. He obviously didn't have a clue as to how to be married. But guess what - MOST OF US DON'T. The only clues we have about how to be in a relationship come from our parents. Society obviously doesn't give us a good example. Well, my dad had a temper and would scream at my mom. So guess what, when I would get into an argument with my W, I would scream and love bust as well. Let me tell you, that really did wonders for my M. But guess what, when it really came down to crunch time, I came here and changed what I needed to change, learned what I needed to learn. Now I would consider myself a superhusband. Any woman would be lucky to be married to me (even my WW who still hasn't committed to our M yet). What example did Jay's parents set? I'm assuming that they didn't do the best job at showing him a good example of how to have a great M. I know for a fact your parents didn't either. Your F doesn't spend the necessary amount of time with your family, has had his own issues with infidelity, and it sounds to me like your M has been a WW herself. Anyway, it is no wonder that the two of you have no clue how to foster a happy M. What kind of message are you sending to your daughter? She is a wild child in need of some structure, discipline, guidance, and 2 parents. But a crisis like this gives couples the motivation to make the necessary changes to alter the course of their M for good.

S, the roadmap for happiness is right here in front of you. Take advantage of it. I've talked to Jay, and I'm familiar with so many people's stories on this forum. I'm really confident that you two will reconcile. I know you don't feel that way right now, but given your history and the tools that Jay now has at his disposal, this change in Jay WILL have an impact on you. The longer that you continue your A, the longer it will take to heal and be happy again. Do this for yourself. Respect yourself, and don't let this POS OM continue to defile you and your family. I know that you think that this OM cares about you, but he really only cares about himself, otherwise he wouldn't be having sex with a married woman. Trust me because I know, I am a man, certain men prey on married women because they are vulnerable, just like some prey on single mothers. I'll pray for you, Jay, and your daughter that you do the right thing.

Happy Valentine's Day!

I sent my wife a dozen roses today, roses have always been a big thing for us. I also sent her an email to her private email as a card. Today definitely sucks!

I'm off to hang out with a single friend tonight and watch some other friends play The Roxy in LA, so that should be a good time.

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Have you called up Dr. Harley yet?

I think you should continue to plan A your WW for a while. Stop talking about the A, just engage her in conversation like you would if you were trying to court her. Draw her in and meet her need for conversation. She won't let you if you keep talking about her A. That is a sore subject to her. She really angry and conflicted right now. She's having a hard time justifying her A, so she is taking all her anger out on you. You just need to learn to let it slide. She is going to continue to shut everyone out who doesn't agree with her choices. Eventually this will wear on her.

As far as the cult thing my WW continues to think that about MB. My WW just three and a half months ago told me that we were definitely getting a D, she wouldn't ever be with me again, and I was totally wrong for exposing her A. Today she is not going anywhere. We still lack intimacy, but we have the great friendship back, and the intimacy will come. She is afraid to put herself out there and get hurt again. The same holds true for your WW. She finally shut you out last summer/fall, and she's afraid if she makes herself vulnerable again, you will go back to the same patterns that led her to emotionally divorce you. It times time and effort to slowly break down that wall. Having the OM in her life just makes it easier because she doesn't rely solely on you to meet her ENs anymore. If she didn't have OM, she would slowly gravitate back towards you. I'm sorry, but you are just going to have to deal with OM for a while. You can tell by her sneakiness, however, that she isn't okay with everyone knowing of her adultery and this is causing huge internal turmoil. Just keep sticking with the plan, Jay.

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It is a rollercoaster... and a stomach-churning one at times.
When you feel like this, I'm guessing it's a sign that you need to do more for you for a while. You've had a big blow... time to "rest up in bed" metaphorically speaking, and recharge yourself for a while. Then see how you feel.

I've had some really, really low times over the last... gah. 8 months. sigh.
When those times have hit, i've wanted to chuck it all in. but after I've given myself some healing time.. some "me time"... I find that I still love my wife, and am ready to keep trying still.

I try to enjoy "small victories" in my own personal space.
For example, I've taken this opportunity to make small changes around the house, that I've wanted to do for a while. Just cleaning up some areas... getting some new shelves for others... putting in a decent looking plant in front to replace the nasty scraggly thing we've had for years by the front door...
I try to do at least one thing for each weekend I dont have our children with me. (and sometimes, I do it WITH the children. they loved picking out "their" plants <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Bump for a friend. The new thread is aptly titled, Jayban Pt. 2.