Mel, I think he was referring to her EA as him "being raped" as well, not that he was struggling w/the term per se. Is that right, FFN?

Have you read the part about making selfish demands? Thats really cute, but his books tell *you* how to behave. You can't dictate to her how she should behave - that is a lovebuster. You are not in a position to make any such demand.

Your affairs are "not over" to her. She won't just "get over" them. It will take her 12-18 months to recover, if at all. Perhaps longer, becuase your deceit went on so long. So you can expect her to be angry for a year or more. That is a normal part of recovery.

ok, FF, what do you want us to help you with? We are not going to help you shut your wife up. So, what is it that you want exactly?

Do you want to try and save your marriage?

Hi Standing,
I appreciate everyone on here and their trying to help me. I don't see anything about this as humorous though. I love my wife and it hurts me to see the results of all of the terrible wrong things that i did. it hurts to see that she is still in such anguish. I am in IC but she refuses MC or IC or any outside help. This terrible psychological burden she is carrying and ferocious outbursts that she has are sometimes unsafe to her own self. I don't find that anmusing at all. It is a living ****** for both of us, and we are both living and feeling people. I think some people on here have vendettas against WSs and they are in the same kind of resentment...so I am an easy target, but none of this is funny OK

So far, after having read what you have penned here I feel like you need some positive direction.

First, it’s time for you to be a leader here fathfulnow.

You two have such a convoluted mess that you are going to have to STOP and take a deep breath and slow everything way down.

Your going to have to break all of your problems down into much more manageable elements that you can affect.

You are going to have to decide that you love your wife because that makes you happy, and it makes you fulfilled to know that she is being treated the way that she deserves to be treated; with respect, honor, dignity, and compassion.

You both have made mistakes obviously.

Hear me on this: if you two keep living in the past your M will die. That’s a postulate that I have yet seen proven wrong here or anywhere.

So how do you accomplish your side of the equation here?

You LIVE your words. You become a doer of the hard things. You go to IC and work on yourself with an open invitation to your W to join you at anytime. You make it clear that you want to do this to be the best H and person that you can be so that you can love her in a way that she will come to cherish and find value in.

All of the infidelity and adultery in your M is surmountable. I believe that.

But the work involved to straighten out a train wreck like you two have is going to be like climbing Mt. Everest.

That’s straight up talk. And we’ve all seen worse.

But the thing that may be the most difficult for you is that you are going to have to be still enough, quiet enough, to look inside and see what mistakes you have made that originate and end IN YOURSELF.

My W had a full blown A. Does that make it right for me to run out and screw around on her because I’m wounded or owe her one? Nope. Not for me or you or anyone.

Read up on plan A. Execute a similar plan. Not to bust up an A, but to show your W that you mean what you say.

Be honorable, compassionate, esteemed, sincere, empathic, well groomed, and fun.

Date her while you work on yourself.

If this all sounds like it is more than you can bare; then let her go.

That is NOT what I meant. It was the question about Melody reading the Dr. Harley books that I found humerous b/c of the fact that she has been here for years. I'm sorry you took that as a slam against you. It wasn't meant that way. I thought I explained that but I obviously failed.

I agree, NONE of this is funny. Quite the opposite. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. Let's start over.

Did you read anything else from my post? Let me respond to your other post:


I believe you.


She might be of the mindset right now like my H was that she can do it on her own. That is unhealthy IMO. I think you do need outside help so I agree w/you.


And what I'm trying to tell you is that right now she is trying to process all of this information & come to terms w/it. It's fresh, it's raw. SHE hurts!

Are you still struggling w/the fact that SHE had an EA?

FF, everyone decent resents a WS, as they should. But folks welcome a FORMER wayward who takes accountability for their crimes and shows sincere remorse.

I think what you may not understand is that your wife is acting perfectly normal. Your serial cheating was as traumatic as a RAPE. And she was raped continuously for YEARS.

So, of course she will be traumatized. That is a natural, normal reaction of being assualted for years on end. Many women have nervous breakdowns or suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from having to endure years of adultery.

So, I think the key for you is to understand whta you have inflicted here and try to show a little compassion for her. You are looking at well over a YEAR for her to recover, if at all. And it sounds like she may have decided the resentment is just too great for her. Which is understandable.

But, if you want to keep her around, I would start by taking accountability for your affairs. Stop blaming her for your affairs, and stop using weasel words to define them. ["errors"] Show some compassion and understanding for her EXPECTED and inevitable anger and TRY TO HELP HER THROUGH IT INSTEAD OF WHINING ABOUT IT. Step up to the plate like a MAN and just TAKE IT.

I think doing those things will calm her down immensely becuase all the things you are telling us here have only AGGRAVATED the situation. Time to take a new path.

Plank-
That was a great reply. I DO want to work on myself and our marriage to get better and so on. I also know that if we keep living in the past our marriage will die, that's why her behavior is so frustrating to me right now. I will look at step A and your suggestions.

Thanks

Mel,

I think what you are missing is the fact that FFN's W had an EA before this. He had his A as a reaction to hers. I think we have to take that into consideration here. I agree w/everything you're saying, but I think his W needs some accountability as well if she hasn't had any.

Fn... almost every post from you has a "blame her" component to it. Even in your response to Plank... "that's why her behavior is so frustrating to me right now...." I know you are not coming out and blaming her byt hose words.... but there is an implication that you are.

WS are scum of the earth... and yes, I will admit to a vendetta against them. FWS are among the best people on this site... but WS are not.

What did you think of the suggestions I made to you earlier int he thread. If you KNOW you would never commit another infidelity... is there any reason you couldn't do those things? If your wife asked you to take a polygraph test tomorrow to prove you have been honest about everything... would you do it?

Rmemember... for right now... this is not about you... it is all about her... and your latest infidelity was only 6 months ago.

Be strong... be a husband.

Hi Melody,
I understand what you are explaining with the rape analogy. Unfortunatley, to make matters even worse, her experience with her XH (married 2 months and long before she met me) was not an analogy. You have valid insight and I respect it. I just get sucked in when she has an outburst and I don't know what to do, she makes me feel so useless, I can't help her, i am her enemy. I don't know how to process that either.

Fathfulnow,

I’m glad that you find some encouragement here.

The thing is that if you just glean from these posts that what you want, instead of the truth, you are only going to delay the inevitable throws of death for your M.

You need to have a fire lit under you’re a$s to make changes that are positive. You make them in yourself first because YOU WANT TO BE A BETTER PERSON.

Then you start moving forward one step at a time.

Read what Melody is telling you here.

Her explanation of your W’s feelings are absolutely dead on and she is telling you things that you need to hear just like everyone else here is.

But to get started you need to get the first step in the right direction.

I’d shove you myself if I was there.

Being WS that is trying to become a FWS is a very tough thing to accomplish.

You are going to realize that a lot of the motives that you *feel* like have justified your actions in the last decade of your existence are going to go up in smoke. Without self improvement, I can guarantee you, that you are going to end up feeling pretty damn bad about yourself.

That’s why you work on you.

Because we all know that you can do better than you have been.

BTW, for what it’s worth….

I had an EA. My W had a PA. When we compare notes on the subject she does not express feelings of rape and post traumatic disorder. Actually, she thinks that the whole ordeal that I went through is pretty slight in damage to our M.

Of course I don’t feel like that, but it seems to be her opinion.

On the other hand, even with my transgressions being what they were, I felt completely devoid of all value as a human being for quite a while.

Read the link on the bottom of this post to “the Affair World”. That’s what she is picking herself up off the floor from.

She absolutely needs your help to do that.

Thanks for the heads up, but be assured I did not miss that at all. He did not have an affair in reaction to hers. He is fully responsible for his own affairs.

I understand that Mel. I'm not saying he isn't. That was his decision. I guess I'm just wondering how her EA was dealt with.

I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that they're both responsible for their own choices. Hers for her EA & his for his multiple A's. I'm not trying to lay the blame for his A on her. That's not what I'm saying at all. Boy, am I just coming across completely wrong today? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Like I said FFN, she is going through some raw emotions right now. You have to be supportive of her right now.

ST, but the issue at hand is his affairs. Whether she takes accountability for her affair is not relevant to his own accountability or lack thereof. Her affair does not entitle him to have affairs. It was introduced as a diversion to shift blame.

Faithfulnow,

If I get the timing right you have been faithful for 3 months now. You were in a physical affair for 2 years, and interenet affairs for what seems to be around 3 years. Have I got it right?

You said

So what you are saying is that roughly 5 years of betrayal should be forgotten and recovered from at 3 months of your non-betrayal. WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING???

She said she wanted a divorce about 3 months ago, which was when you apparently decided to stop the internet interactions am I right? This suggests that you only stopped when she threatened divorce. She still wants divorce apparently because she does not want to go to counseling. It is her right to not go.


You are not an "easy target" you are being extremely foolish in your expectations of your W. That is very normal for a WS who has not "gotten it" yet. Your attitude is that it is really her fault for not getting over this, but you seemed to be oblivious to the damage your internet activities have done to the marriage. You have not connected the dots between your affair three years ago (which was two years in duration) and your internet activities that have just now ended. She has connected the dots my friend, and that is the problem for you and your marriage.

Once you finally realize and accept that her reactions are indeed driven by YOUR actions, then YOU have a chance to save this marriage. If you don't come to the realization deep in your heart, there is really little chance that it will survive nor should it really.

It is clear neither of you know a thing about relationships and how to handle them, much less marriage. Now the only question remaining is whether or not YOU are willing to learn. Are YOU? It won't be easy. There is no guarentee of success. And it will take roughly two years to heal the marriage IF it can be.

So are you game or not? That is really the question. This part has nothing to do with her, it is really all about you, your attitude, and your willingness to save this marriage.

Let us know your decision and there is a path to recovery. It is very narrow, and it is tough. What you need to understand is that many here have taken it. AND, they have taken it from both sides of this situation.

Please think carefull about this.

God Bless,

JL

Damn, he's good!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Melody is right. My W's EA is not an excuse for my PA's or online A's. If I couldn't accept her EA I could have divorced her. My actions are mine and I alone am accountable. She does have a right to her anger and feelings right now. Its just really hard for me to hear it, and I need to learn ways to deal with it without reacting and realize that it is nothing compared to the terrible way I treated her. In fact, how lucky I am that she is still with me at all.

good job!

Hi Pepper,
i remember you from years ago when i was in my A. Thanks for the support. I do love my wife. Her angry outbursts bring the affair back to me, and i am forced to view the ugliness that i inflicted upon her, and that she has internalized, i am only seeing a tiny bit of it. I bet some WSs divorce just out of pure guilt and not want to face the guilt of what they have done.