Hi everybody.

It's time for an update, and I'm sad to say the news is not good.

V was preparing to leave me, which I discovered by snooping last week in an IM conversation with her mother on Tuesday.

On Thursday evening, I was able to convince her to give me 3 more weeks to show changes and improvements in my behavior - less controlling, less smothering, etc. It was very difficult even to gain this. One of her conditions was that she be able to *speak* with Dale. Sadly, I wasn't in much of a position to say no.

On Saturday , I discovered a "Valentine Application" in her MySpace from Dale. I deleted it before she saw it.

On Sunday, I checked again, and say a message from her to him that she hadn't received it, confirming that she was expecting it. I gave her the opportunity to tell me the truth about this, but she lied with a smile on her face. So, I confronted her right then, telling her I knew she was lying.

I told her that she agreed to give me 3 weeks, and sabotaging my efforts wasn't part of the deal. I also told her very firmly that she MUST not lie to me anymore. She agreed to both.

I fear things are nearing the end. I have until Feb. 15 before she's out the door, but I don't know if I can make it that long.

A Plan B may be the only possible option I have left in the near future. But I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth it.

Just a question - why are you identifying your W as a "FWW"? It seems to me that she's an active WW.

MiM, good catch.

I haven't updated my signature yet, but you're right.

Have you exposed to her work yet? Why not? I told you that you need to get her out of there. You are lucky that her company has a policy against this kind of thing. One of them HAS to go. Don't negotiate with your WW. Don't ask for more time. BREAK UP THE A!!!

Where is she going to stay on Feb. 15? How is she going to be able to afford it on her own. Stop enabling her. Cut her off financially if you have to. Block access to the internet pages that they communicate. Contact Dale's parents! You need to take MORE action to prevent contact.

I'm going to write EXPOSE TO HER WORK every day until you finally do it. She wants more space and for you to be less controlling so she can continue her A. EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE. Find OM's parents TODAY!!! Dale is a POS, all OM are. He never stopped trying to court your WW, he just told you what you wanted to hear to get you off his back!! Get a program to block myspace.

You need to stop LBing as well and keep meeting her ENs. Come on NST, you can do this, but you need to get tough!

Hi Jim,

I don't know that she'll actually be moving out on the 15th. That's the agreed date at which we'll evaluate whether to keep going. If the answer is no, she moves forward with whatever plan she has for moving out -- which has only been vaguely described to me as "a female friend of a co-worker who needs a roommate."

V seems to think she can afford it, and I guarantee she'll receive no financial support from me if she does leave.

I don't know if I'm prepared to block access to web pages and email on her computer. Given that her primary problems with me are control/smothering issues (exacerbated, surely, by the thing with Dale), this would only make things worse I think.

Again, I agreed to allow her to *speak* with Dale. Stupid, perhaps, but I had to in order to prevent her from leaving. Maybe I can re-negotiate this part of the deal if she lies to me again, I'll have to try. Otherwise, I think it'll be Plan B time.

Thanks for your advice, Jim, as always.

(((2x4)))

You what? Her main issues are control, it is keeping her from continuing her A with DALE!! Stand up and enforce some boundaries. Expose to work and block those webpages otherwise you will continue to get hurt and your M will stand no chance.

A truly FWW here...I agree with Jim...When are you planning to expose at work??? By the way, you do realize that Plan A includes exposure, right??? Without it, it is NOT a true and complete Plan A...

And this allowing her to speak with Dale...NO, NO, NO...You NEVER condone this behavior...and your agreement here is implied condoning...Stand your ground, enforce YOUR boundaries...The only thing worse than making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise...

You are afraid of your wife's anger and also of losing her...Her anger is really NO BIG DEAL, she will get over it...And as long as OM is in the picture, you have already lost her...

So, let's get moving on exposure to kill this affair, whaddaya say?

Mrs. W

NST - you have to realise she has already left even though she is there in body. You don't negotiate with a WS. Expose her. How much respect do you think she has for you when you allow contact with Dale? Women do not love men they don't respect and she surely does not respect you.

If you want to keep enabling her and allowing her to have contact, don't be surprised when you don't get the result you want.

You delayed her departure by 3 weeks. WOW. Hope it's worth it but it will not change the result in the end.

Time to MAN UP man

Expose to her work

Set your boundaries



When you do expose be ready for her to tell you something like:

"I was goin to work on our M, but you went and told my boss so it is so over between us. You did it now you crossed the line."

Just let it blow over - in one ear and out the other.

NST,

Call the Harleys.

Exposure is a great strategy....however control issues can complicate the dynamics, and come into play when deciding (not IF, but) how and when to expose. So please, enlist the aid of the professional counseling services with the Harleys....it's worth every penny and you'll also be able to get advice about what to do about the bad deal you've already made about her talking to Dale. You may think you didn't have a choice.....but you did. Stop letting your fear of losing her control your choices right now.

Get some help. Good luck!

Look...show me a single WW that does NOT claim that the BS is controlling!!! Just one...I don't think we've seen one yet.

My wife sure accused me of trying to be 'her father'. During her affair and immediately afterwards of course...that all disappeared after she finally was beamed back down.

This is STANDARD WS SCRIPT...and I'd be willing to be it's absolutely nothing more than that.

Just for fun, ask her to show you one example of where you were controlling her...where you weren't working to save the marriage, OR she doesn't sound like a whining teenager when she's telling you about the incident.

Where ARE you at on exposure? Who knows, who doesn't, who should you be telling right now?

On exposure, the people I've exposed to:

Her parents and mine
Her best friend and all of our mutual friends

I'm collecting resources for exposing to her work and Dale's parents now.

Starfish, sadly I just don't have the money to call the Harleys.

Just a few words about exposure:

Don't tell anyone ahead of time that you will be doing this.

The longer you wait the harder it is to break it up.

Remember what I said about your wife getting pi55ed at you. Your M can survive pi55ed, but not an on going A and lies.

you can do this, most of us here have been where you are.

Never, you don't need to call the Harleys' in order to expose, it is standard advice around here. Expose, expose, expose! If you do feel you could benefit from some professional insight, though, you can call Dr. Harley on the radio EVERY DAY for free.

He does an exceptional job of assessing situations over the phone and giving guidance. I would give that a shot if you feel you need it.

The others are giving you excellent advice. Be brave and move forward!

Owl.....I agree with you. However, the reason I feel a little more cautious in this situation is because NST married his wife at 19 (and she had no other boyfriends before him)...he's ten years older and probably does seem a little "parental". They have no children and have only been married a short time....so not as much history and bonding as I wish they had. Aside from that....NST very candidly revealed this:


So I think perhaps it's not just WSspeak.....and that perhaps there is a real control issue that predates this A. Besides....I didn't say he shouldn't expose at work....just to get some professional advice about how and when (timing) so that his wife can percieve it separately from his natural inclination to hold on too tight. He might not be able to....but there may be some things he can do to demonstrate that he's not obsessed with her or interested in controlling every aspect of her life....before he takes what may be a very necessary step to expose at work. I'm just wanting him to use extra care....and that seems warranted to me. Since he can't afford that....he'll have to either give the doctor a call on the show....or make the decision himself. This forum is great for offering different insights.

I recognize that if the affair doesn't end that nothing he does will matter....and exposure is a powerful weapon against infidelity....so again....I just want NST to expose from a position of strength where he's controlling his own LBs....that's all. I think that's been a challenge for him.


Mel....Yes...it's standard advice around here and sometimes, I think to look at the whole picture and how exposure fits into it. One size doesn't fit all. The Harleys don't set those kind of "standards"...they consider each marriage and the timing for each strategy based on the complexities of each situation. I took the time to read NST's old posts before weighing in. I think what he needs to do more than anything right now....is BE STILL and show his wife that he is strong enough to go on without her.

I know ANY question or difference of opinion about exposure is going to put some folks "on point"....but please know I'm just trying to be thorough and responsible...and I think everyone else is too.

Do her parents know about the kissing and the fondling? Do they know that she is trying to hold you emotionally hostage? Don't let her. She is probably scared of going out alone and supporting herself financially. What she is doing is probably a bluff. When I cut my WW off and told her to get out she agreed to NC with OM. In your situation it is more difficult because they work together, but you need to expose. Counseling with the Harleys is cheaper than divorce. If you still can't afford it, I'll put $50 toward your SH fund if you email me your address. You don't want to be in a relationship with someone holding you hostage. Enforce your boundaries, lovingly detach and avoid all arguing and LBing, and just try and meet her needs, especially for admiration. Tell her how nice she looks, smells, thanks for cooking or cleaning, etc.

Also, if you ever need someone to talk to you can email me your phone number. Not only have I gone through your exact same situation (and am coming out the other side), I have also helped many other people through these things. You need to know that these affairs are all the same and believe in and stick to the proven techniques. If these techniques don't work, then nothing will, but at least you don't have to be a doormat.

starfish, I realize this is your personal, unprofessional opinion, however, PLAN A is actually standard advice from the Harleys. Never do they state that one has to have counseling to execute Plan A. If that were the case, then thousands of people would never benefit from Marriage Builders. Sure, some can afford it, but it is most certainly NOT a requirement.

Dr. Harley routinely advocates exposure as a standard procedure on his radio show. [the concept of exposure comes from him, after all] It is part and parcel of Plan A, which, except in rare exceptions [addictions for one], is pretty much for everyone. Folks don't have to get counseling to execute Plan A. Nor have I ever heard Dr. Harley recommend against exposure over control-clinginess issues.

While I do agree that he may need some special focus to address his clinginess, that is something that most certainly should be addressed in Plan A, and is not anymore problematic than other lovebusters. I think his best bet is to conduct a comprehensive Plan A, not a lopsided plan A, that includes meeting her needs, avoiding lovebusting behavior [clinginess], and most ESPECIALLY, doing what needs to be done to apply pressure, such as exposure in order to get the maximum impact. Exposure, as you well know, is a very potent, positive weapon against adultery, and he would be at a huge strategic disadvantage if he skipped this step. And for no compelling reason.