Oh, she has asked. I think she is ready to listen.

why not show her a book HNHN

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html

also

Dr laura's book

Care & feeding Of Husbands

I have both and have read them...I mean, she has. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Honesty & Openess
Admiration
Sexual Fullfillment


I think maybe the ones we pick as the most important are the ones we feel that are lacking at the time.

oh

well then why not have your friend call the Harleys?

Pep

I am saving my money. It may take a little while before I am able to do that.

Pep, a couple of questions if I may continue this discussion...

We discussed truth - living and dealing with what is really there, rather than what I hope is or want to be there.

What do I do if (and this is a biggie for me)...

I SEE what is really there, acknowledge it, and then other people tell me that is NOT what I am seeing?

This happens often, and I am not necessarily talking about the people who are dishonest with me (telling me this). I am talking about casual observers - rational, logical, respected people - saying "you are crazy (irrational, over-reating, seeing it wrong, etc.)

I thought of another big question in the car on my way to work, but I have since forgotten it. I wish I could remember because it took me almost three weeks to figure out how to articulate it and I finally had it...for a moment.

bwhaaaaaaaa



either you are:

1. MY age
or
2. you are stressed
or
3. distracted & busy

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think everyone should go back and edit their posting, to indicate whether they are male or female. it would be more enlightening <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am male. It's tough for me to pick the "top" ones for me. but I can at least eliminate ones I dont feel are very important.
In the "dont really care" =
Physical Attractiveness, Financial Support, Domestic Support, Admiration

Out of the 6 left, I think my top are, in order:

#1: Family commitment (but not in the usual sense; more the
"show you are committed to OUR FAMILY, including your spouse, more than anyone else"

#2: recreational companionship

#3: affection

I'll be shockingly anti-male, and say that I think SF is more a biological need, than an EN for me. It's very enjoyable and positive, etc, etc. but given the old "kisses or sex?" question, I'd pick kisses over sex.

picking affection, is kinda wierd, in that i havent had it for a very very long time, and feel like i've gotten used to doing without it. so is it really that important to me?

But to me, I think that regular, daily affection from your spouse, shows that they are always "connected" to you, and caring about you. That might even be my #2.

i had that a looooong time ago from my wife. But I dont think she was regularly affectionate to me for the last i-dont-know-how-long years of our marriage.
I miss it quite a bit.

4.) Have a dysfunctional ADD brain.

I remembered what it was, though. I was going to ask...if I use my judgment to ensure that I am seeing what is really there, how do I determine the difference between actually seeing what is there and not being duped and DJ'ing? Does that question make sense?

My number one is not on the list.

A SENSE OF HUMOR!

well
the one thing you cannot "see" is someone else's perception

I get the feeling you are asking about determining another person's feelings/motive/etc ... and not something measurable

if there is a difference between what someone is saying, and what someone is doing ... make your ultimate decision on what ~you~ should do based on what you can measure

comprende?

pep

I think so.

I think maybe I am getting mixed up trying to prove intent. What you are saying is that intent is irrelevant to truth? Or that it may matter, but falls outside the scope of prove-able, so chasing after it will only keep me running in circles?

This is hard. I am finding it hard to prove action.

Let's say that someone taps me on the shoulder while my back is turned and when I turn around to see, they are not doing anything, yet every time I turn around, I FEEL someone/something tapping me and they are the only one standing there!

I can't PROVE that they are tapping me and they certainly aren't going to confess. My logic tells me that the person is tapping me, yet they continue to deny it.

I do not know how to measure or prove this.

Why should you have to prove anything? If someone else's word is enough, why shouldn't yours be enough, too?

You do not have to prove anything to anyone but yourself. Anyone who insists you have to "prove" your perceptions is playing mind games with YOUR head and getting exactly what THEY want - which is to control you and drive you crazy so you can't "control" them first.

Oh, and btw, I know my #1 EN is Openness and Honesty but I'm not sure about the other top two. Conversation, Recreational Companionship and Affection are all in there at about the same level.
Mulan

Stepping gingerly over my fundamental unease with the blame-it-on-unfulfilled-ENs theory of adultery, I have an observation and a question. I am interested in reading other’s comments.


It has been stated by many here that ENs often evolve over time. I agree with this. ENs I have now are not the same, nor in the same ranking, as when I was 30. Or even 40. Or even, well never mind. You get the picture.

I have also noticed my ENs change somewhat from ENQ to ENQ. For example, an EN that is not met at all for a while will be near the top. ENs met to one degree or another tend towards the end of the list.

But even more than that, an EN that is simply threatened jumps right to the top of the list. It does not have to be suddenly unmet. Just a possibility that may become unmet.

My ENs twist in the breeze like a wind chime.

Which is why I think I intuitively discounted my ENs even before I first read about ENs in HNHN and SAA. They are elusive and pretentious. They are a face-saving device to help WS come home, or blame it all on forces beyond their control during early recovery.
They do not run my life in the least.

I have been able to suppress My ENs as the need arose. Even physiologically based ENs such as SF.

After FWW started her VLTA she became distant, unapproachable and dismissive of SF. We did not have SF for 2 years after the start of the VLTA. And then only occasionally for the rest of the VLTA. It took a while, but rather than have an A, as MB predicts, I realigned my needs. I suppressed my needs. And it worked just fine. I have never been into porn or self-abuse so I found other creative outlets. I took the equivalent of a mental cold shower for 10 years, and still do. I made this EN, and all the standard ENs that were not being met, go away rather than use them to justify adultery, or even stress me out.

I can say even now that when I take the ENQ all ENs are ranked nearly equal. They change only according to my instantaneous perceptions, like noise on the radio. Yet I live, have been living for years and years, without any of them being met to any appreciable degree.

Does this mean there is something wrong with me?

I mean, I still feel human.

With prayers,

Can I play?

Me:
#1 Affirmation (!!!!)
#2 SF
#3 Conversation
#3b Recreational Companionship


Him:
#1 Honesty and Openess
#2 Affection
#3 SF

What is funny is, number 4 for me is Domestic Support... I keep saying - I'm the boy! It's really hard for me to read HN/HN b/c NONE of the examples fit our situation.

And of course, glaringly obvious is the fact that I have blown all to he!! any chance of meeting #1 for H... at least not for a long long time.

Now, if there is a boy-type poster out there for whom Affection ranks high on the list - I would appreciate hearing some actionable things I can do to meet this need - I have asked H and he says, "You know, i just want to feel special." and I don't know what that means. Or he'll say, "I just want to feel like I'm your guy". and I don't know what that means either. I need steps to follow - a list to check off - the rest is all so vague!

And since he's not living in my house currently - how do I go about meeting this need if I a.)don't understand it and b.) he can't describe it?

Of much more impact on me, on my $LBank, have been DJs and AOs.

IMO, LBs are much more harmful to a marriage than missing ENs.

But maybe that's mostly becasue FWW was so good at them.

Aph,

You have some darn good replies. IMHO, we always have free will to choose our actions and responses to circumstances. That someone, who is M'ed, and doesn't seek out unmet ENs from someone else seems, to me, to be a person of integrity and character, in addition to being firm and tough minded. We need more such people in society.

V/r, No Way

[color:"red"]Froz[/color]



I get drunk ... and I don't intend to harm anyone...


but I get in the car intending to go home ... and I hit a pedestrian ... was not my intent

spouse Q has an A ... NOT intending to harm/hurt spouse T ... just wants to have fun

but the A hurts spouse T like heII ... even tho it was not spouse Q's intent

..... can't measure intent
can't qualify or prove it

can prove an event like an A

Pep

well, i fit that description, so I'll take a stab at it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think that actually, all the typical female-oriented affection stuff, should work just fine on guys who need it.
unfortunately, you probably cant apply this right now, 'cause accepting affection requires a preexisting level of intimacy. but you're lucky, becuase girl->guy affection is really difficult for guys to turn down, whereas guy->girl affection, for the average girls, usually get automatically bounced if they are not involved with them.
('cause most men will hit on anything female that's in reach, so it's an automatic "bozo filter" reaction, i think)

AAANNYWAYS, getting back on track <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


let's say you're out walking somewhere together... hold his hand. this is great affection, because it both feels nice, AND shows the world "you're his girl".

hugs

hand through his hair once in a while

little random drive-by kisses

little touches "just to be connected to him"

just smile at him sometime, for no other reason than you are together and you are glad about it.

It's all about showing that you WANT to be connected to him.
That you look forward to it enough that you will initiate it.

erm... if you're a baker type... bake him his favourite cookies. Dang, I miss my wife's chocolate chip cookies, she makes the best ones... sniff...

when you sit next to him, lean your head on his shoulder sometimes. or lean against him lightly.

again... show that you want to be near him.

sigh.. this is tough to write. I really miss that from my wife.


random thought: if you had a young child... think of how you would show him that you love him. Most of what I wrote, works for little boys, and big boys, alike <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> so does most anything else that little boys would like.

i'm a little jealous of my boys in that department these days...