Background..married 13 years, together 15, two young children (under 7)
I discovered an EA my wife was having 5 weeks ago. It was occuring with a co-worker that resides in another state. It was taking place at work via, email, instant messaging and phone.

She has met him in person approximately 10 months ago. She claims that they started talking and about 3 months ago things crossed the line. They started sharing intimate details about their sex lives and that culminated with some phone sex.

I only found out when I found an email to him with nude pictures of her. She lied about who the guy was, where he lived, etc. However, she finally came clean ( I think). She said that it was never physical and that she thought it was "safe" because of the distance involved. She told me repeatedly not to call his wife as it was not "his fault" and his family should not have to suffer, etc.

She does travel for work. I checked records of calls, etc and the indication was that he was not with her as there were calls made to him on her cell phone to his office phone when she was out of town.

She must continue to have occasional work related contact with him. She told him (according to her) that she needed to have a "professional only" relationship as their relationship was negatively impacting her marriage. She di d not tell him that I knew about it because she thought that he would respect her request more if it was coming from her with no influence from me.

Since that time we have been going to MC. She has gone about 6 times, I have gone 3 times and we have gone twice together.

It appears that I was not meeting her EN's in regards to conversation and some others and that is what he was fulfilling. She has identified that she feels like she has been carrying the burden in our marriage due to my shiftwork, etc. She has not spoken up about her EN's not being met and that has only recently become apparent to me.

She is trying to deal with some personal self esteem issues and assures me that when she deals with those that will assist us in rebuilding our marriage. However, she says that she has "doubts" about it working out, etc. I am sort of on hold until she figures herself out.

Over the past 5 weeks our communcation has improved. We share a lot more about what is occurring at work, etc. We have increased recreational companionship dramatically (one of her EN's not being met) and I have gone to a shift that I am at home every night for dinner with the family.

A pivotal point came last week when she said that she would have to travel for business to the office that this guy works in. Needless to say I was not happy. She claims that she may not even see him, but if she does, she thinks that it will not be a big deal. It is as if she does not see the negative impact this "relationship" has had on us.

By the next morning I was wondering how the custody issue would work. She had MC in the morning. Afterwards she said that she felt better. She was assured by the counselor that feeling confused and having ups and downs were "normal" and that this would be a lengthy process. Turns out she thought that our conversation insinuated that she needed to refuse the trip, which would get her fired, or quit her job.

There was no insinuation. At this point in time work is what she lives for. She derives her self esteem from it and is excellent at what she does. It is the one place that she claims to have "direction".

A day after I thought divorce was imminent she told me that the reason she did not think that it would be a big deal "if" she ran into him was that her needs are being "met" and addressed by me and our marriage counselor.

That was reassuring, but confusing. The MC assures me that this is normal. MC thinks that she is not having any "personal" conversation with the man and work related business has been limited to several emails and a single voice mail with no personal overtones. Again, what my wife is telling me and the MC. The MC thinks she is being honest.

I asked the wife if she thought she could be "just friends" with this man. She said that she thought that she could, but wouldn't because of my feelings (how nice). However, she asks like she is completely in control, invincible to temptation when she travels to his city.

I relayed that to the MC. I was assured by the MC that she would reinforce that this was not acceptable and that she (my wife) was still fragile and that NO personal contact could occur. No, explanations that I give my wife are good enough, but if the same words come from the counselor it is gospel to my WS. I hope this will give her some perspective.

At our MC's suggestion we have been "journaling" to one another. My wife had told me that I need to trust her again over time, otherwise she could not see this working out. I feel like I am being given an ultimatum in that regards.

I asked her (journal) what she saw each of our respective roles in rebuilding trust. She responded being open and honest, but referenced everything to financial matters. Apparently, buying things made her feel better and some credit card debt ended up being 4x higher then what she had told me. She commented that I am now more involved in the financial matters (prior to this she paid bills, etc) and that wasn't a bad thing, but took some getting used to. Furthermore that I would need to "respect that I might want to have some things that are 'mine' (IE surprise purchase at Victoria's Secret) that I will share with you when I am ready to. I would ask that you accept those things at face value and not jump to conclusions should you discover them before I reveal them."

She seems to be talking about the finances? I could care less at this point about a few thousand dollars, but want to know more like how she is going to rebuild trust after she has betrayed me with her EA. She does not even address that in her answer.

Lastly, not that I am complaining, but I am trying to figure out the sex. For the last year her libido has been rather high. She attributes it to age, mid 30's, and better body image (finally lost the post pregnancy weight). Sex occurs 4-5 times a week and has even though the EA discovery. In fact it occured the night of the conversation that led both of us to believe that the relationship was doomed.

We have discussed it and came to the consensus that this is about the only area of our life that we are both completely secure and happy in.

She freely tells the MC that her sex life with me is great and never better. Again....confusing, then why the EA with phone sex? Ego stroking, different, fantasy?

Anyway, now that I have probably information overloaded most people, does it appear like we are going in the right direction??

Obviously, it will not be resolved tommorrow. However, my suspicious mind tells me that her non-chalant attitude towards her EA that contact is still occurring???

I have resolved myself to address her needs that I was not fulfilling and to work on the things about myself that contributed to fostering the environment that she sought an EA. The rest is up to her. I can not change or control her, but have thrown this back in her court.

Any input??

Hi,

Sounds like you need to get a plan. In addition to your MC, have you read SAA (Surviving an Affair) and HN/HN (His Needs/Her Needs)? Also give Jennifer from MB a call for some support phone counseling.

You really need to have a plan and direction.

L.

Orchid,

Shouldn't the OM's wife know about this? I still think there is a potential problem with her talking to OM and more importantly visiting his city. Temptations can get the best of most at some point.


I worry about the continued contact and I have an issue with OM's W not knowing about their EA and phone sex.

Tough one?

committed, contact probably is still occuring and will continue until a) she leaves this job and b) stops traveling over night. As Dr. Harley would tell you, you should NOT SPEND ONE NIGHT APART after an affair. That is just asking for trouble. She has already demonstrated to you what will happen. She has already demonstrated what happens if she continues to work with the OM. [we have some 4,5, and 10 yr affairs here because this step was ignored]

If you want to save your marriage, she will have to agree to NEVER EVER be in any contact with the OM again. Calling her affair "just friends," or "professional contact" is cute, but is still CONTACT. They have evolved beyond that and cannot be "friends" or "professional" colleagues. That is like expecting a drunk to sober up by changing the name of his drinks to "professional drinks". Changing the LABEL will not work, only changing her BEHAVIOR will effect a change.

I would suggest you start by exposing this affair to the OM's W. This might be the very thing that kills it. At least it will be harder to for them to resume with 2 ppl watching and keeping tabs from both ends. Do this without forewarning your W. You will then want to expose the affair to Human Resources and both their bosses.

This will likely kill the affair, because exposure is RUINOUS to affairs. I doubt the OM wants to lose his family over a cheap piece of fun and will quickly dump her. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure ruins the foundational fantasy and forces the affairees to see how sleazy they look through the eyes of others.

Your next step will be to get her to quit her job. Just explain that there will be no recovery until that happens. Recovery is impossible unless she leaves. Nor will she have "self esteem" if she is carrying on an affair, so it can't be said that maintaining this job will give her "self esteem." The affair undoes all that.

Here is a good arcticle from Harley about what it will take to start recovery:

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Can I also suggest that you find a MC who is qualified and who understands the dynamics of adultery? Yours does not and I fear that may land you in trouble.

She may end up causing more harm than good if she is reinforcing practices that will DESTROY your marriage. And yes, contact will destroy your marriage because it will result in an on-again, off again affair spanning for YEARS. Marriage Counselors have the LOWEST RATE of success amongst professional counselors so most are useless at best, harmful at worst.

I would also suggest a couple of things: get Surviving an Affair and Fall in Love, Stay in Love by Willard Harley. Instead of wasting your time with an unqualified MC who knows nothing about adultery, call Steve Harley. He SPECIALIZES in adultery, has a great track record and will be worth every penny. He will not suggest or reinforce practices that will PREVENT your maritial recovery because he has EXPERIENCE with this.

Your w needs to EARN trust. It is her job to do this, NOT YOURS. I would explain to her that it will be up to HER to earn your trust. Trust must be earned, it is not an entitlement. The things she is doing, contacting her OM, traveling to his town are things that DESTROY trust rather than encourage it.

TOO MUCH trust is what got you in the mess in the first place. In order for an affair to take place, a double life must be led which is based on secrecy. If you had not been too trusting in the past, it would have been very hard for her to have an affair.

So, I would ask her: WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO DO TO EARN TRUST?

Here is an article of what must happen in order from an affair that might be helpful to her:

Four Rules to Guide
Marital Recovery After an Affair http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

Orchid: Yes. Who will tell her? Can you?


Orchid: Worry? Ok, now what r u going t/d so you can stop worrying? Don't be afraid to rock the boat! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.