I am posting this here at the suggestion of a member. While we haven't experienced overt infidelity in the sexual sense, my husband had given up on our marriage and was getting at least some of his emotional needs met by an unavailable neighbor.
This is a copy of the thread I posted; any insight would be welcomed, especially where to locate the article that was mentioned:

I've been looking for the article about why a woman would want to leave a man, but I can't find the other way around.

We were married 14 years ago. I grew up with him. I feel like the rug was pulled out from under me.

I have been to counseling and I am coming to the realization that I made some terrible mistakes, but am still searching for what to do know. The counselor is helping me understand what lead to my unconscious actions, but I don't want to wait too long to focus on us, too. I want nothing else on this Earth but to save my marriage. I never thought this would be us.


Alphin responded:

Hello, and welcome to MarriageBuilders.

I'm glad you are here, but very sorry for your pain.

I'm sorry to have to ask this, but is it possible he is having an affair? Men very, very rarely leave a long term marriage unless there is someone else to 'run' to.

Secondly, if he is saying he is not in love with you, one wonders: who is he in love with?

There isn't much traffic on this board, so I suggest that you post on General Questions II, in the Infidelity section.

Even if you are certain he isn't being unfaithful, it's still the best place to post - all the most experienced posters and vets are there.

Peace to you.

Alph.


CnD0531
Junior Member

Reged: 02/01/07
Posts: 2
Re: My husband is not in love [Re: Alphin]
#3180223 - 02/02/07 07:23 AM
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No, I know that it hasn't gone that far. He did turn to an unavailable (married) neighbor for friendship, and I thought that he might have fallen in love with her. But that was not the case--I was unknowingly not meeting his emotional needs, taking on too much responsibility at work and volunteering. He was doing alot around the home, and felt that he was taken for granted.
He tried a few times to tell me what he was feeling, but I did not hear how deep the problem really was. (He told me a few times that he was tired and stressed out, but then I thought, aren't we all?) He didn't push it the way I so wish he could have, made me see.
He felt that I had to find out his feelings on my own, that I should have seen how unhappy he was. Apparently, this has been going on for the last 3 or 4 years! And the last year, he has told me, he just gave up.
All while I was oblivious.

If you had asked me in October, I would have told you that we had a very good, strong marriage.

Anyway, thank you for the reply. Do you know the article that I mentioned?
And, if Tempest thinks its a good idea, could the thread be moved?

Thanks,
D

CnD...

what are you waiting for...
why the need to understand..

just start today...

romance your husband
flirt with him
make him his favorite meals...
buy him his favorite candy bar and tape it to his steering wheel...

smile at him

go out buy and read in front of him the
Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands

take him out on a date...
wear something sexy...

act in a loving adoring cherishing way....

what have you done...
and what more can you do every single day so he knows how much you love him..

speak your admiration
speak your gratitude...

speak words
act actions...

I mean what else is there to do...
there's no point in drowning in psycho babble as to why or how...

just stop the behaviors that make him feel bad and engage in those that dont'...

AM I wrong here...

ARK

Ark gave some great advice.

I also agree with the note that men don't usually break from a long-term relationship on the drop of a hat. It does sound, based upon what you wrote, that this is an issue that can be turned around.

Meeting his emotional needs, coupled with time, will win this battle for you. Start doing this...yesterday!

Let us know if you see any results, and take it one day at a time. You are in a position to win your H back EARLY in this type of situation, many of us are fighting a tough battle that is far more progressed. You can do it!

I am doing some of those things (and thank you for some of the other suggestions that I haven't tried yet!). The sh**t hit the fan back in the beginning of Nov. So it has been a few months. The counselor has pointed out that what took 3 years in the making is not going to be healed in three months...
but H still says that I am "not in his heart" like I used to be. He says "I love you" all of the time, and I do believe him.
But he has also said that the sudden turn around has left him in disbelief, and a bit angry--why didn't I do all of those things sooner, he wonders?
All I can do, I think, is keep "making Love deposits," and let time convince him of my sincerity and love.
Meanwhile, I do feel like I have to find out how I got in this place to begin with, so I never end up here again, you know?

You are doing exactly you need to do: Make deposits in the Love Bank, be patient, give it time for him to see your sincerity.

As for finding the truth of your life, that starts with you. Use some self-reflection and be honest with yourself. Then move to conversation. Is he talking to you about your relationship? If so, you are in a good starting place. I'd recommend getting his and your ENs identified, if he's willing to work with you on that, by printing off the questionnaire.

If he's not willing, then there's a different approach. Don't cling, push, or chase. You chase, they run. Easy math. Gently, patiently and consistently keep up the good work, avoid Lovebusters (look to identify them too, there's a questionnaire for them, same as what I wrote above. Self-reflect first).

My wife is acting the same way: "This is so frustrating, you are becoming exactly the man I always wanted you to be and it's too late!" "I don't have those feelings anymore, and it frustrates me to see you change this way" There is alot of frustration a spouse in this situation will feel and express. I believe my wife, her feelings are in turmoil, to her: She means it. It doesn't mean that neither one of us can change as people or change our minds.

One of the best kept secrets in life and relationships is that "People can change. And do". That's a positive statement, never let it be spun.

I'm curious of how you know there is no affair. Your neighbor might not be as "unavailable" as you think.

H wakes up at 4 am to go to work, we are home about the same time every day. There just isn't any opportunity. That is not to say that there hasn't been an emotional affair.
My first clue that there were problems was their budding friendship, especially since she is not in a good marriage.
When I first went to therapy, even the counselor's radar went up. They were talking every day for at least 1/2 hour to an hour. She has marital problems that he would listen to. Sounds really bad, doesn't it?

Then, I told him how uncomfortable I was, and started to try to make demands--how could you be friends with someone who is not really friends with both of us?, etc.

After my D-day (the completely empty kiss when he was leaving for a business trip, 11/4/06), it did come out that he had originally been drawn to the friendship as a way to try to make me wake up to the problems.

I was still in denial, and could not see.

But when I did not respond, he found that he valued the friendship itself. Even with all of this disclosure, he is still adament that he is not in love with her, and my original focus on that possibility was me missing the point--that I was taking him for granted.

So, at this point, even if he is in love with her (maybe without even realizing it), it really doesn't matter. He is willing to work on our marriage. He has come to the counselor with me. He has pulled back on his contact with her. I have become more involved with this woman through daily talks, which would make it very difficult for her to hide something.

I am finding that there is only so much that I can control over this situation. I cannot reach into his heart and make him love me. But I can change my behaviors, look within myself to discover my shortcomings and my needs. Tell him and show him every day how much he means to me, how much I love him. Be patient while he goes through this, too.

I feel like I must have been asleep for a long time, running on autopilot. I am awake now.

What he is having is an emotional affair, which is often just as bad as a physical affair. While she is in his heart, there is no room for you.

They need to have no contact. Only then will you be able to fill your husband's love bank.

She lives across the street. She watches my daughter every morning for about 1/2 hour until the bus comes.

How do I make a demand as to who he is allowed to be friends with, especially since he is the one who lost feelings for me?

Confronting him with my feelings has made him deny it and be defensive.

This is why I at least tried to get closer, make things uncomfortable for her, if she was also being disloyal.

Any ideas?

He lost feelings for you because of the emotional affair with her.

You can let her husband know that you suspect an emotional affair, and that your husband know longer loves you. You can stop contact with her, and ask her to step out of your marriage. That one usually doesn't work, because the other woman doesn't care about your marriage or family.

Wow, every time I try to write a response, this sounds worse and worse.

I don't think that her husband would do too much, even if I did talk to him. They seem to be having even more problems over there. But it is something to be considered...

I did confront her over the summer, when I felt like they were getting close while excluding me. I was still in denial--I kept wondering why he would be friends with someone who was not close to me, too? She said that I intimidated her, that we had too little in common (I have an advanced degree and teach, she has a HS education). She cried and said I must think that she is a slut. On the inside....
At the end of that, she thanked me for allowing them to be friends. Am I an idiot, or what?

Anyway, I think that he might have to come to see his relationship with her for what it is--if I try to go around him, he will only be infuriated (and probably drive him toward her even more).

Sucks.

And I think that he had an emotional affair because he lost feelings for me. I don't think that his relationship caused this mess, it is a symptom. I was not giving him something that he obviously needed.

There may have been some needs you were not meeting, and problems in the marriage. Every marriage has those issues, and you need to be working on changing and meeting his EN's.

But the problem now is that there is an emotional affair going on. Once that happens, he will not be open to you meeting his needs, because SHE is meeting some of them.

It probably started out innocently enough with him trying to support her re her marriage problems. But now it is like an addiction to the two of them.

And of course you intimidate her - you are the WIFE!!! She wants to be "friends" with your HUSBAND, not you.

If a wife came to me and let me know that my friendship with her husband was causing problems, I would immediately have no contact with him. That is what a normal woman would do - stay clear of interfering in a marriage.

Ok I needed to respond to this... me being the exwife of a man that had an affair with the woman next door - though I refer to her as the *hore next door - anyways... All three of us were friends - our kids were friends... I used to listen to her marriage problems - etc... then I find out that her and my husband at the time - were actually much more friendly than the two of us... in all actuality - they had been having an affair for months and months... he would leave at 5am and she would leave at the same time to say she was going to the gym.. he would go out to the store and they would meet up... And I can also say that I never thought there was anything wrong with my almost 15 years of marriage.. and maybe the only thing that went wrong was that I figured it out...but not at first - first this was an elaborate cover up.. I accidently intercepted phone calls between the two... and even then I didn't believe it.. and then all of a sudden we all got divorces.. of course the two of them denying it all of the time - still to this day - though of course they started dating a year after we divorced - they still denied it to the kids... So do not believe they are just friends talking to each other.. and don't think that it couldn't be happening... once I figured out - it was true - he used to call her at 2am all hours of the night - when he went into the bathroom etc.. And then once everything was over with - I stopped and looked back and well - it was all there I just chose not to see it - cuz "I" didn't think it was true...

Thanks maw, I was feeling sort of alone in this. You were like the normal, trusting wife. Why would you suspect anything when the infidels were covering it up so well?

So, what would you do? He has already said that he is not willing to give up the friendship, straight out.

There was a bad day for me after the DDay, when I was still processing this whole mess. I was still coming to terms with how I let him down, and trying to focus on what I should be doing, not on their friendship (since he said that was not the point). The day before, he had said he was going up to the bus stop, and he must have seen me cringe inside (he was giving her a ride up there daily, to talk and because of the weather). When he saw my face, he said that her husband was going to be at the bus stop. I felt so much relief--he finally saw that I was uncomfortable, even if that wasn't "the point!"

But the very next day, I am coming down the hill from work, only to see them driving up to the bus stop together!! I was furious--I didn't even go home, and they both saw my speed away. He tried to call me on the cell, but I turned it off.

I drove around for about an hour. When I did get home, it was very hard.

He could not see how my reaction could possibly be warranted. Maybe we couldn't work this out at all. Was he supposed to leave his friend standing out in the cold while he was in the warm car? How could he do that?

Any time I have tried to tell him how much this hurts, he tells me that I am focused on the wrong thing.

I can't even begin to think how I could change this--I don't think that there is anything in my control, that I just have to watch and wait for him to wake up.

Do I go to her again and tell her to cool it? She is sure to say something to him (because she doesn't want the friendship to end, either). My counselor has said that if you accuse someone of something often enough that they have not done, they start to wonder why they shouldn't go ahead and do it now--they are suffering the consequences, anyway.

I don't want to drive him to her, you know?

"My counselor has said that if you accuse someone of something often enough that they have not done, they start to wonder why they shouldn't go ahead and do it now--they are suffering the consequences, anyway."

I hope you will get rid of your counselor. This is an old, old excuse that the infidels use when caught.

So, what to do?

OK well I don't agree with the whole if I keep asking him he is eventually gonna do it - because I used to get that from my husband all of the time... he would say - well I am not sleeping with her and I might as well be... and the busstop - well it is funny but I used to go to the busstop and that is where I started comparing notes with her husband about my suspicions.. Even when I intercepted the phone calls - that were - HI hun it is me I thought we were gonna hook up but you must be with your family - I went to the car wash and washed my car with the hose thing I know you hate it when I use that" etc.. .not your normal friendly neighbor thing.... I was the one accused of well you talk to men in the neighborhood you could be accused of sleeping with them... Well you know what - I wasn't talking to them in private... He is gonna do anything to twist this around and try to make you feel like this is your fault or that you drove him to do it - My exhusband rewrote our history - almost to the point that I wondered if we ever got married and had two children or I was dreaming it... I was a complete emotional basketcase .. and I blamed her for everything... and I was still kissing his butt worried about him getting mad at me.. all of the time... The simple fact is that - if they are talking - or just discussing their marital problems - THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THIS... if there is something wrong with your marriage nothing that she says is gonna help him - it is between the two of you... I am sorry to say this but your gut is telling you that something is going on your just are choosing not to really and truly see it... My sister used to scream at me and say how much more proof do you need - do you actually have to catch them in the act to believe it???? I truly think that if your husband wanted to fix your problems and she didn't mean anything more to him than a friend - then you know what he would stop talking to her - something else is going on there... Does she call your house?? My neighbor was always at home every night and she would say to me - how could I be having an affair with him I am always home - OK ya she was home alright but what I didn't know at the time is that he would park his car at the store and walk through the yards to get to her house.... if there is a will there is away....

OK and I just want to add - that my exhusband was a firm believer in the line - I love you I am just not in love with you" and that I should have seen all of the problems.. well you know what there werent' really any problems.. only that he cheated - he got caught and well I just couldn't live with it - even though I was willing to forgive - he wasn't willing to live a life where - I would always be wondering...