First, thank you for taking the time to read this, and ever more gratitude for those that respond.

We were married for 16 years until this past August, 2006, when I let the A win. I followed thru with the D and the advice of so, so many (non-MB people). Let me break it down in MB style:

Me, BS, 40, Catholic-Christian
Her, X, WS, 41, Cradle Catholic
Married 16 Years, together 17; first son "brought" us together...
DS#1 16 - doesn't like Mom unless convenient ($), lives with Dad 100%
DS#2 7 - loves Mom & Dad, lives with Mom 60%
DD 5 - loves Mom & Dad, lives with Mom 60%
Her 6 month EA - 1993
Her 2nd EA (2003-05) turned PA (4/05 - 12/06)
I confront her MANY times 2003 onward requesting NC even then...
MC 3/2005-6/2005
IC me 6/2005 - 9/2006...IC thinks I'm good...
IC xWS 6/2005 - present - twice weekly...
Plan A 3/05-5/06; Plan B never really worked, but attempted
True DDay 12/24/05 - "I'm pregnant and it's not yours!!"
xWS moves out 12/24/05
OC aborted 1/06
xWS moves home 1/06 - warily I agree assuming NC
False NC(s) during next several months 2 many times...
Divorce filed by ME 4/2006
xWS moves into her own place 6/06; takes DS#2 & DD with her; OM spending the night since day 1...ugh...
Divorce final 8/06
10/06 xWS finds out I'm "seeing" someone & freaks out (I didn't plan on meeting someone...it just happened)
10-06-Present xWS and I start SF - in a quasi loving/passionate/emotional blend (had no SF together for 12 months)
xWS breaks up with OM 10/04/06 expects me to be there for her and rebuild
xWS continues cycle of breaking up and returning to OM for 2 more months. Everyone thinks the inevitable has occurred: its finally over.
12/06 Family home is sold, assets divided
12/06 I move into my new home
12/06-Present niether xWS or myself are seeing anyone but each other
PRESENT: xWS wants to reconcile...take our time...not blow it.
5/07 - xWS Lease expires. She's hinting about moving into my new house...

There are still red flags...

Me? What a wild ride. I have no idea if this is even possible. We love each other - are definitely emotionally & physically still VERY drawn to each other, our memories and our "family" -- but there are just SO many hurdles now. Trust is obliterated. There are also still times, and it can easily be sparked up in me, where I'm just disgusted/angry/resentful at her STILL blaming this on me -- also telling me that the A didn't cause the sale of the house or our divorce but that I chose to do that on my own.

Yes, I did choose those things. And for good reason. I lived on the same street as the OM! I would pass him coming home from her house in the morning! I would pass her going to his house or leaving in the early a.m. I just figured after so much had happened, this was over. She was a forever alien.

I was wrong. It just took me completely letting go for her to realize that I was not available to her. Prolly what a REAL Plan B would have done...

And now, I'm torn between wanting to start over on my own and eventually be open to the possibility of love again, or continuing to "hang out" with X and see what happens. She definitely is showing very clear signs that she is coming out of the fog -- but then again -- it's just too soon to tell. If I ever thought I could trust her, I would definitely try. I have a lot invested in knowing and learning and loving with this person. I just don't trust her...she got really good at deception. Personally, I feel she is an Alchoholic and maybe even a Pathological Liar.

What I do know is that being with her does bring out all of the rawness and ugliness of this life altering event. Not necessarily in our conversations, but when we are together I'm amazed at how little things all point back to one time or another during the A. Seeing a car like his -- wondering what she was doing at the bar she just mentioned and who she was with -- wondering if he bought her that bracelet or if she made love to him in the car I'm sitting in.

Yeah, OM is supposedly gone. She hasn't written the letter or sworn to NC. Says she needs to... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> DS#2 and DD ask about OM...WS says "he's in Cali visiting his Mom" and leaves it at that. So, they keep asking...apparently he became a fixture there. Why won't she just say he's kaput? Because she's not ready to, that's why. It's been 2 months. What's been going on there? My weary insiders don't know either...

Yet - I'm no longer the anxious mess I was this time last year. I've put on 15 pounds (at the gym) and have maintained a (reasonably) healthy diet. I've been off AD's for 6 months and sleep just fine. I'm happy in my new home and have many projects to keep me busy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Do I even want this? A SMALL part of me says yes -- but I'm not sure if its for the right reasons. Faith alone is such a tall order in this circumstance.

So, she goes to her non-MB, non-Christian counselor last night and shares the update of the last 2 months. Does he support the family? Never has really. Just supports her. Early last year he encouraged her to move out and "figure things out." She prolly convinced IC that I WAS an a$s and OM was an angel. So, she moved out. All that did was open the floodgates to chaos for my kids and me. OM and her went haywild.

So, last night he says, "Whoa, you should be alone. You don't need BS or OM." And, then when asked what prompted that she tells me, "Well, what I tell you and what I tell IC are two different things. I can't tell you these things. That's why I see IC"

My biggest EN? Yep, O&H...

This IC is an idiot in my opinion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And, look where we are now: textbook Harley stuff. OM wasn't the one. I am. Family is. Faith is. And, IC got a years worth of $ and IMHO just aided in the wreaking havoc.

And, now we're D...at least legally. The RC church doesn't see it that way...

*sigh*

4 months until her lease expires and I would bet that the real pressure starts in two months to move back in.

What do you think folks? Do I continue to just "hang out?" If I don't, then I'll have to confront X now, and stop "playing family" and having sleepovers. If I do, I'm back to square one and have to go thru the pains of recovery with her...which I've just begun to experience and I have to say...ick...

Too many Failed NC and False Recoveries. What makes this one any different? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Blue

The thing that really bugs me about this is that your xw freaked out when she found out you were dating someone else. That spells obsession and it is a dangerous road to go down.

I would say that she needs a lot of time alone getting herself in order and for you to just sit back and watch.

You seem to be in a great place menatlly and I would not risk that for someone that is at best a long shot. Don't play family... it will confuse your kids.

Be slow... and be careful.

She's not ready and you know it. There will be signs when and if she's ready. You know what to look for (i.e.- remorse, christian counselor, joint counseling request, O&H, selflessness, guilt, taking responsibility to all of her "stuff", considerate of your feelings, and much more).

I wouldn't do this to myself. What is your custody situation? I ask because your EX W (WW?) seems pretty screwed in the head to me based on the things she's done and continues to say to you.

Be very leary!

If you were seriously thinking about going down this path, I think a call to SH would definitely be a MUST. If she wants to reconcile, it must be on YOUR terms, negotiated by SH. You don't want to have to go through another false recovery.

MEDC: I agree, slow and careful.

HAP: Yes, I know...but aren't all WS screwed in the head? Isn't that the point here? To get them back to planet Earth?

Jim: I totally agree with you -- but -- if the WS thinks that my "controlling" nature is what got us here, won't MY terms be just another example in her head at this stage? Of course, that speaks to HAP's point about her not being ready yet...

Like on LilSis's thread, I know when the W is speaking and when the WW is speaking. I get more of the W these days...but still some WW bizarre stuff...just not nearly as much. I can't imagine that coming out of the fog is an instantaneous thing...

SO, what I'm hearing thus far is let her come out on her own and see what happens...

Sounds reasonable.

Mr. Blue,

Let's start from the top. With children in the house would you bring in a girl friend to live with you? Do you think that would send a proper message to them? They already see their mother doing this and it is messing them up.

So, until you two remarry, she doesn't move in. That was simple wasn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now to the very first part of your post;
Nope you don't love each other. Sorry, love is a verb and just reading what you said about her blaming you, suggests little love at all. Further, it is clear she is still in the fog and withdrawal from OM. Frankly, you should NOT be having relations with her other than what is necessary for the children until she gets some good counseling and begins to take responsibility for her actions.

I really don't want to touch the issue of her aborting OM's child, but that is soooo against your religious beliefs that there is much she will have to face before you could consider this woman a candidate for marriage.

I realize you have a history, but the woman you remember, the woman you married is gone. The woman sharing your bed, and messing with your life, simply looks like the woman you married. You have no idea who this woman is now. Further, with luck she will change further and become a human that can be trusted but she will never become the woman you married. So while she is in flux, stay away. When she gets out of this period of change take your time and reevaluate if she is someone you want to be around.

We are talking love here, NOT LUST. We are talking attributes that exist NOW, not your images from the past.

I think you really need to step back until...

The first clue you will have is when the grief hits her for what she has done to you, and the children. As long as all of this is your fault, you have no chance.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.

God Bless,

JL

I would definitely give the Harleys a call if at all possible.

The red flags are there!

Be careful...go...slow. Figure out if this is what YOU want.

The two young ones didn't know he was staying over. For those 6 months, he typically came and went while they were asleep...but, they did get to gradually see him more and more for dinner.

But, this doesn't dilute your message...I understand. I'll set those boundaries.


It's funny -- she flips flops on this one. She generally takes the blame for this -- but those 1 out of 3 times she blames me, I get livid and just clam up. It used to be 3 for 3...so she's making progress...


Understood. Have mixed emotions over this -- W#1 of 1 year also had affair and we D. Growing up, Step-mom had A and parent's D'd. Out of Love, I'm trying to break this cycle; I'm trying help this person, but what I end up doing is enabling...

My IC said it best: "You are the LAST person on this planet that can help her."


Concur. Am just waiting for that to sink in and get a common understanding about her actions. I don't need shallow justifications.

I do feel that by sorting this out now, slowly, will help us resolve many issues that DO interfere with us being strong individuals and subsequently, strong parents.

Thank you for your thoughts...

Blue

Yes, from Blue to "frankly." Partially out of wanting to change my acronym, to changing my identifiable identity...

But, as a quick update, the wise were wise.

Today would have marked our 17th anniversary. I'm doing just fine. Lots of mental images that I'm wrestling with, but for the most part, just fine.

X did have an OM "relapse" and subsequent "cover up." I spent the last couple of weeks of Feb and most all of March moving on and drawing my lines.

And, while I continue to submit to Him, there is a part of me that doesn't. I do earnestly *know* this is what's best for me and my own growth. But, I also know that she *knows* where her true heart lies. Yet, addictions are powerful - perhaps moreso with the passive aggresives?

Our separation is what's best for her growth -- for her salvation. Our Divorce was a very unfortunate casualty. I sincerely regret having taken that action...

Coming here, to MB, has been a tremendous help.

And now, however fortunate or unfortunate, I bring friends in tow...

Frankly,

Why do you hate yourself so much that you can NOT be convinced that you deserve better than your XW?

Frankly,
I don't see how you establishing boundaries to protect yourself from the manipulations of your XW is "controlling". I think it is absolutely necessary in order for you to preserve the sanity you have achieved through that ordeal.

What you have described in your initial post sounds like your WW wants to cake eat. Once she saw that she might not have the option to come back to you on her own selfish terms, she freaked out and used SF and the hint of wanting to reconcile to manipulate you into allowing her to cake eat. "Take it slow" rhymes with "not commit" to me. Just get rid of a any competition to your WW so she can more effectively manipulate you.

Sounds like I am being a jerk about your XW, I know, but I'd just hate to see anyone go through that a 2nd time.

Frankly,

I am not sure I understand your last sentence, but I am not surprised about OM. I suspect you really are not either. With regard to the divorce, yes you pulled the trigger, but she bought the gun, loaded it, taught you how to use it, aimed it for you, and put your hands on the trigger, and THEN squeezed her your hand holding the trigger.

So let's see who's fault is the divorce? Who made the decision to have an A? Who had OM around your children? Who has gone back many times to OM? The answer to each of these questions is the same, she is the one.

Move on with your life knowing you did all you could do.

God Bless,

JL

Cymanca: Interesting (great) question. I'll answer from a perspective of hope and compassion: I've done things in my past that I feel I'm paying for now -- and I would only hope that if I was in a similar sitch I too would be afforded grace. She's an addict who is beginning to understand and take action - albiet destruction has already occurred - she doesn't yet fully realize this. I do deserve better - without a doubt - we all do. In my personal belief system, it's my job to help her get to Heaven. One last thing -- this sitch has taught me SO much about myself, my faults and my character. I'm very proud of myself (now). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

GameFace: Agree 100%.

JL: Thank you. My last sentence was inferring to the fact that I have friends going through similar situations and I have pointed them to MB for guidance and support.

I'm 90% there - maybe more. I've made it real clear that there is not going to be reconciliation. She may doubt - but then again - doesn't everyone at some point?