The emotions involved don't change the principle, though. I bet finding out your child was molested is very emotional too. The death of a child is very emotional. Do we not tell the parents because "it might hurt them?" Of course not. That would be silly.

Sure, the affair is emotionally charged, but it is still THE AFFAIR that causes the harm, not the telling. Avoiding the truth is a dysfunctional, sick way to live.

Ever heard the phrase "the truth will set you free?"

If someone were to NOW bring me the fact of my husband's heretofore unknown infidelity

I'd be very angry at my husband, not at the messenger

I'd be neutral about the messanger

because when we recovered from the known infidelity I specifically said ... "tell me about any previous events" ... he said there were none

and if he lied at that time

our recovery would be built over a lie

and we would not have what I thought ... an honest marriage built over truth

he would have decided for me of what I did and did not need to know ... unacceptable

so
historical radical honesty (as discussed by Harley in the concepts ) is one of my top ENs

a deal-breaker

it is a measure of integrity for me ... the integrity of our marriage

Pep

Oh, I doubt they are in "denial" at all. Most people know they are fat.

Dr. Harley on Radical Honesty:

Basic Concept #6: The Policy of Radical Honesty


It isn't easy to be honest. Honesty is an unpopular value these days, and most couples have not made this commitment to each other. Many marriage counselors and clergymen argue that honesty is not always the best policy. They believe that it's cruel to disclose past indiscretions and it's selfish to make such disclosures. While it makes you feel better to get a mistake off your chest, it causes your partner to suffer. So, they argue, the truly caring thing to do is to lie about your mistakes or at least keep them tucked away.

And if it's compassionate to lie about sins of the past, why isn't it also compassionate to lie about sins of the present -- or future? To my way of thinking, it's like letting the proverbial camel's nose under the tent. Eventually you will be dining with the camel. Either honesty is always right, or you'll always have an excuse for being dishonest.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_summary.html

Hi Pep-

Would information about your husband's past (that you did not know) lead you to file for divorce?

not if HE brought it to me on his own, in the spirit of reconciliation and honesty

but think about this ... if I asked him today about any unknown affairs

if he said "there were no others " today

and tomorrow I find out he was (is) lying to me

what do I really have?

I have a man who is willing to lie to me

unacceptable

It might be different for someone (not me) to say "IF there were any others please don't tell me" ... something else altogether, you see?

YES, I'd file
and I'd be sick

Pep

Thanks Pep.

MelodyLane,
I am interested in when you informed the OWH in your first husbands affair and when you informed the 2 other husbands of the other women your 2nd husband was having an affair with.

I find your*****tactics very interesting. It looks like it is the same thing you said your tried with your first husband when he left you. *********EDIT*********

quote:
I continued to bully my husband for several months and never failed to rage, rant and humiliate him whenever I saw him. I was outraged that he would leave my 2 sons and I!


I also find it interesting that even though you do nothing but promote Dr.Harley and all he says, that you didn't apply these very same principles in your own situation. (and yet they worked)

quote:
I gave him the the evidence that I had and explained to him that I had no interest in being in a relationship with a man of his caliber and that our marriage was over. I told him that I was not the kind of woman who would share her husband with internet ****.[or anyone for that matter] I then made arrangements to move to another city and hired a mover and was setting up job interviews.
Several days later, he came to me and begged me not to go, said that he was sorry. I thought about this for a while and agreed to give it a try on a temporory basis as long as he got help in marriage counseling.


So, you advise others on here to not move out, but you were going to do the same thing yourself? (and it worked)

You advise others on here to not date before they are divorced, but you dated before you were divorced? (and admit at the end of your signature line you are "happily recovered?) (looks like that worked too)


You advise the betrayed spouse not to educate the WS, but when a WS comes on here you do nothing BUT try and educate. (which seldom works)

****edit************

I have read how Dr.Harley talks to and responds to a WS and I have yet to see that he comes across as rude. *****He seems to help them to feel safe, *******which is another Harley principle in helping a WS opening up and slowly learning to be completely open and honest.

Doesn't look like trying to bully a wayward spouse on here works too well to me. I personally would try another tactic to HELP them to come around.

What some people call "honesty" others view as rude.
I think the word "tact" is a much more effective solution to HELPING a WS to turn around.


************EDIT*********
But, what do I know?

As much as I didn't want to bump this thread I had to respond to this.

I remember reading in the book "Torn Assunder" by Dave Carder of exactly such a case. The man had been on a business trip and had a ONS with some chick he met in a restaurant. Never told his wife.

25 years later or thereabouts - his marriage fell apart. The intimacy between him and his marriage had deteriorated over the years due to the guilt of the affair. Eventually he did confess and a full recovery was made. But they both lamented the LOST 25 years that were robbed from their marriage.

Point being, there is a reasonable chance OW's M has turned to chit as well. The lapse of time changes nothing.

Hi Big K-



Yes. We are in that boat- we lost 17 years.

I understand what you're saying.

You raise the possibility that OW's marriage may be suffering from this long ago transgression. But I am raising the possibility that their marriage may be strong and happy. In one case I can help, in the other case I could hurt.

I have to add that I would react like Pep- if the tables were turned and I heard the truth from OW's husband instead of Messdup after all this time had passed, I WOULD DIVORCE HIM. The only reason I have considered staying is because he confessed to me himself. So, if OW's marriage is suffering, I question whether the information coming from me would help them recover and build their marriage.

I realize that you feel strongly about this and my opinion will not influence yours. I'm not trying to change your mind; just explaining why I chose this route. I agree that in most cases it is best to expose to the other betrayed spouse.

I don't want to write on this thread any more either. I'm getting worn out!

Mel:

Since I am your personal whipping boy on this thread I thought I would point some stuff out.

You STATE That I:



With your support being this:


So, look for my Questions to Dr. Harley and his response that I have posted in two other threads. And this was not answered four years ago, but today, It came from him thinking about it and responding. And I didn't make it up. If you attended the MB weekend, you can read it for yourself.

And then, since it isn't PRINCIPLES or CONCEPTS, really, you change the defination to suit a broader classification:



So, we have as exhibit A, Ace in Bucket, who wanted to find something that could "work" for her NOW. Maybe not tommorrow, or a week from now, TODAY. And she claimed that it worked for TODAY. That's all. Now lets deal with tommorrow, tommorrow.



Oh, Boy! LG wants to be liked? Thanks Mel. I can go to an awful lot of other places and never have to expose anything about my past and get alot of approval. And around here I WILL ALWAYS be on the opposite side for some. And sometimes, posters around here just need to ease into what they have to do. We cannot solve all thier pain, or save all thier pain, with one post.



NEVER, EVER make this presumption, Mel. And don't think because you have 21,000 posts around here that it allows you to make this presumption.
Your bias shows thru plainly enough with just that line.

And this was just plain harsh:



Somebody decides that what is in the past, especially the distant past, no longer can affect them, and they have an Ostrich Approach? Seems somewhat healthy to me. You want to know what kind of life you are living and the world that created it. But you will never know all. And some people do not realize that they might have a piece of your world that could be important to you. Because maybe they just don't know it could be important to you. We grow and we change. The past has created me, but it doesn't define me. Nor you.

I DO have a piece of OW Spouse's world. And I will discuss it with my BS and use POJA to decide what to do. I know it is the "moral and right" thing to do. And proceed accordingly.

LG, Dr. Harley did not answer this question four years ago, the affair had ENDED four years ago and the BS was JUST TOLD. He gave this answer just a few months ago. Dr. Harley stated, and I will quote AGAIN, that the betrayed spouse should always be told. This was in response to a case that was being discussed on the board at the time.



What we REALLY have in Exhibit A is an ongoing affair that is now on D-Day #3 and is headed for D-Day #4, per Ace, because the affair has not been exposed. Let's try and deal with REALITY, ok? Telling Ace not to expose was absolutely irresponsible and will likely lead to the D-Day #4 she fears. She is the average fearful BS who comes here looking for help but really wants to take the easier softer way. That is what you handed her. You told her what she wanted to hear rather than what she NEEDED TO HEAR, at her expense. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Well, everybody is biased, so lets keep in mind that yours comes from the perspective of someone who is a wayward spouse and is brand new to recovery.

And I am interested in why in the world you would imagine that I would discuss my history with a troll. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> No thanks, but I will pass, girlfriend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />



Not much, IMO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

LG, did you actually read Dr.Harley's response and apply it to Ace's situation? Your "advice" to Ace was in direct CONTRADICTION to Dr. Harley's advice:


Ace is now on D-Day #3 and fears that #4 is right around the corner. She has no assurance the affair is over. Yet, you told her NOT TO EXPOSE against all common sense. Do you want to retract that now?

Her signature says it all:

DD #1 June, 06
DD #2 one week later
DD #3 month after #2 (same OW online & phone)
Fear DD#4 although WH says EA over

Bump for Onethousandwords