My H had an EMA for about 2yrs. He was in love with his AP and I was basically just a baby sitter and annoying money pit for him during this time. It's been about 4yrs since d-day as I know it and I'm still obsessing and rather pissed. We actually have known one another since childhood and we have a long history together pre-M. He's a good friend to me now and was pre-A. Husband wasn't getting his needs met by me (went both ways) at the time of the EMA and he got to travel a lot due to his work. He ended up in his EMA with a co-worker (surprise!).

Skip to today. I am almost at the 4yr marker but frankly I'm still on the fence as to whether I should be with him. How said is that? He's done everything he should do after I found out and basically he is in love with me again.

Why am I still on the fence? I have this strong belief that because I stayed in the M I must be weak or feel that he may view me that way. I even think that he's not had respect for me before or after d-day. I'm really confused as to what's normal. Is it normal to feel crazy about who I am spending my life with?

We have one son and he's still young but gets the whole divorce concept. He asks me about his friends families, etc.

I feel like I need someone to tell me what to do. But know one is going to do that. So here I sit day after day wondering and waiting for some sign that where I am in my life is where I should or shouldn't be.

Ugh!

Thanks.

Hi, I just wanted to say welcome to MB's.

I don't have any advice. But I wanted to tell you that your not crazy.

Soonerorlater -


What was your personal recovery plan? What steps did you take to heal from the affair your husband had, what did you do to address the problems you contributed to your marriage that left it vulnerable to an A? What have you done to reconnect with your husband?


Have you brought this up with a counselor, or even your husband? If you feel that you're still on the fence after 4 years, and your husband has done everything he could and everything you've asked of him, then something must be missing - either within yourself or within the marriage? Do you have any inkling what that might be?


You are partially correct. No one can make you do anything, though many can tell you what you should or need to do.

My guess, completely unprofessional, is that there is something missing somewhere, or something that has yet to be addressed.

Can you give us more information on the A, and the general status of your M prior to and after the A? What has your husband done to recover, both personally and from a marital perspective? Are there things that he did not do that you need or want him to do? Are there things from your life before your marriage, or from your family, that might be casting shadows on you now?

Suppose it would help if I had given more information....

Basically we are the classic case of boy meets girl, girl likes boy, boy and girl are friends for a long time, share mutual friends for a few years, start dating, get engaged, get married, play for a few years, have baby, wife is awful during pregnancy, husband is patient, wife and husband get transfered across the country (no family), husband is feeling neglected from his wife (new mom, me) and has been trying to get through to wife for years with his needs but wife has been depressed and on this med and that. It wears on husband so he starts to notice co-worker. Co-worker is unhappy with her husband as well. They start to talk, become friends, are attracted, the emotional relationship starts, the typical problems in our M start as a result, it becomes a love relationship between H and AP and then I'm the baby sitter and leach in a neighborhood were I know no one, I'm lonely, depressed, closed, etc. I know something is going on, I know he's doing the above but I'm so depressed and closed that I'm not sure what to do.

Eventually I get proof and have a melt down. But at the same time I was very calm and numb. I felt like I had given up my identity to be with this person and for what? Now that all this is out in the open and we've seen a counselor (not long enough) and we both have read everything on this site. I've read all the books and now I'm resorting to Oprah's guys. I'm tired of working on me entirely.

Husband is at "peace" with what he did - that's what he says. He's apologized and talked openly with me. BUT I am angry about interactions that only in hindsite I can recal and realize they were wrong and I was wronged.

What do I do with information that to this day I'm processing? Why do I still have a-ha moments? 4yrs later and things from the past put that puzzel together. I need to know how to approach H about this without him thinking I'm some insane freak who can't let things go.. Is there a solution here or am I doomed to sit on a fence for the rest of my life????

Hi Soonerorlater -

I'm going to make a couple of assumptions, so please correct me if I'm wrong:

1. You recognize that you're on the fence, and you want to decide which side of the fence to come down on.
2. You are leaning towards coming down on the side of your marriage.


If your husband did all he could and all that you expected, why do you feel that you're working on you entirely?


It sounds to me like your recovery was not complete, at least for you. Your husband may feel at peace because he has no idea that you're feeling the way you feel. He'll sit there, fat, dumb and happy so to speak, until something gives. And when that something gives, and it will, it may be too late to do anything to solve the problem. Problems don't go away on their own - but they do get bigger and bigger the longer they go unaddressed.


You're right - you need to approach your husband with these things. You won't know how he'll react until you give him the opportunity to do so. Fearing he'll think you're some insane freak is, in my book, a DJ.

Yes, there is a solution. You are only doomed to sit on a fence for the rest of your life if you choose to.

Radical honesty is one of the four rules of protecting your marriage. Radical honesty includes sharing with your spouse those things that are on your mind. You need to do that in a safe (non-LB manner), but you still need to do it.

If you have questions from the A, if you have doubts, if there are things that you feel are missing, you need to share that with your H. Only by being totally open with him can you hope to have the beginning of a solution.

Ask the questions you need to ask, if there are unresolved issues from the A. Share with him how you feel, and why you think you feel that way.

If you want, post specific questions here so people can give you feedback, advice and/or suggestions.

You have the power to get off the fence <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for such thoughtful responses. I'm not the best at expressing myself on the web but here is an example of a current A-HA moment:

Husband loves to read, loves books, words, etc. Turns out the OW has a Masters Degree in Library Sciences - just found out cuz I found her on the internet in a newsletter. I also saw the picture of her and wanted to barf. Anyway, it just reminded me of WH telling me how different we are and have nothing in common - this after d-day....

How do you go back and address things like this? Who do you go back and address this with, it hurts like ****** that he betrayed me, to this day I can't move forward and I keep creating awkward moments for us because I feel this anger and hurt and it comes out all wrong and directed at some stupid issue that has nothing to do with what I'm really hurt over. This issue is the EMA is 3+yrs ago and he'll play the aren't you over this card if I even bring anything up at all. I'm so frustrated!!!!!

SOL,

"I felt like I had given up my identity to be with this person and for what?"

I believe this is you signalling yourself with what you might have missed in your personal recovery (separate from marital recovery)...

And you looked up OW four years later...a stage those here at MB usually go through the first year...you hurt yourself comparing you to OW...and there's no comparison. Your FWH CHOSE to have an A...period. You couldn't make him have one...no human is that powerful.

Sounds like what happened here is that both of you skipped recovery. See, if your FWH can still say that you and OW were so different and have nothing common...and not mean that she was fantasy (totally not real) and you're real...then you guys get to start over...and recovery TOGETHER.

I love to read, love words...and my DH doesn't. I still share what I'm reading with him, get his thoughts...now that we're recovered. I didn't before. My choice...not his.

You CAN recover...you chose to stay, to rebuild your marriage...that you haven't doesn't mean you can't. Your choice. MB provides great tools for great marriages. Read everything here...grow yourself...that's not a put down...everyone has to do that themselves...do it as an act of love for your authentic self...and live freely.

You aren't bad, wrong or defective. You took a very brave route...to stay, to work on your marriage...I believe it's a hero's journey...take it all the way through.

To have an affair, one must have a wayward state of mind:

Entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

Look inside and find where your resentment has hardened into entitlement...where you aren't respecting...reality, the past, the present...yourself, your partner...your humanness. You can find a lot within which gives you feelings as if the A is still happening...and it isn't. You know a lot more than you did then...which means you aren't the same person...know more.

Radical Honesty...RH...like HB said...means that you share your stuff...your thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perceptions and perspective...with FWH. You don't judge your stuff...you share it. You don't judge his stuff, either...his opinion is about him...he wishes you didn't hurt (that he ever hurt you so deeply)...that you would fall in love with him, too...know that's his stuff...not yours. Both are valid. Awkward moments are signals of miscommunication...learn to communicate cleanly, with "I" statements, to listen and repeat...to hand back what is his...and know who you really are.

You don't lose yourself from others' actions...unless you're living through them, instead of beside them. Another signal...not good or bad. Just is. Get the signal. You're whole, complete and marvelously made by God...in God's design...we are new again every day...we have to choose to see ourselves and others as they are right now...not crudded over with the past or pinned down by the future...right now. And resentment will block you from falling in love with your FWH...I know...I lived that way, too.

You're not alone.

In your corner,

LA

LA,

Thank you for your insight. This post came on the heals of a particularly bad interaction with my H. And of course I had been drinking (something I'm recovering from - it's awkward but it's reality). I wish I could communicate effectively and I'm in a class that is the beginning of what you are describing - taking a non-judgemental look at all of this. I have 3 more classes and then I move on to an 8 week stint of more of the same, this through a medical doc.

I think there is something wrong with me. I don't think my behavior is "normal." I don't believe I made H have an A. I will never believe that as long as I live and breathe. I will also refuse to believe that it's my fault in some way. He chose his route of self destruction and I've just noticed mine.

So I suppose this comes back to the fact that we are all human and have our issues. I'm just getting over the idea that I never would have gone to the level I have with Alcohol had he not chose his route. I was a mild drinker until about 2yrs ago but the years after d-day the alcohol consumption slowly progressed and it did make me feel better for a while.

So anyway, I don't have a lot of time to read all the posts here but I'm sure that someone here has to have posted something or a situation like this in the past. I've look in recent posts but haven't found anything.

I'm really trying to make the right choices for myself and my family. I just sometimes wonder why isn't anyone looking out for me? But then after thinking about this self pitty type thought there are a lot of people who care about me.

One other thing. When I told my mom about my Hs EMA she hardly reacted and she still to this day acts as though my H is gold. There was never a moment where she at least approached me to say, hey are you okay? She never follow-up and when I was crying as I told her about it she didn't even hug me! I think that's an issue as well.

So now I've muddled the situation further with this issue! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Soonerorlater-


Question here, not a judgement. If you're recovering from alcoholism, why were you drinking? If I misread your statement, please let me know.


There's nothing wrong with you. You are correct - your husband owns his choice to have an affair 100%. You both own your individual contributions to your marriage 100% (i.e., you own all of yours, he owns all of his).

What is your route to self destruction? Alcohol? What are you going to do to get off your chosen path of self destruction?


If I read you right, you're saying that you understand (now) that your husband is not responsible for your alcoholism - that you chose that of your own free will?

If so, that's good. It's important to recognize and own our choices, and not pass them off on others.


The search function in the forums is less than optimal. You might be better served by doing two things:

1. Read up on Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts and his Q&A columns on infedilty (if you haven't already).
2. Work to really define your situation, and then look for others on the forums who have gone through similar things.

In reality, you will find that most everybody here has gone through what you're going through. The gameplan is always the same - it's just the players and the details that very from one to the other.


Not to be cynical, but at the end of the day the only person you can count on to look out for you is you. However, as you indicated, you do have a lot of people that care about you.


Yes, it's an issue. You'll have to ask yourself what can you do about it? What part in that do you own? Have you expressed to your mom how her actions hurt you and made you feel?

I get the impression from what you've been writing that you've been holding a lot of things in, and not sharing your feelings with other people. As LA pointed out, that will build up into resentment and entitlement.

It could be that the people you feel have hurt or wronged you have no clue that you feel that way, and did not mean to do that to you. Or they may not care. Either way, by stating what you feel, or felt, in a factual non-judgemental way, you can begin to move past that. Even if the other party(ies) don't appear to care.

If I may ask, what was your recent bad interaction with your H about? It might help us help you to get a good idea of the dynamics going on in your relationship.

SOL,

"I think there is something wrong with me. I don't think my behavior is "normal.""

There is no normal...people do and do not...all people experience life through their own filter, choose their actions...there is nothing wrong with you. There are choices you are making, as HB pointed out, which are unhealthy...and we keep making unhealthy choices, our self signals us, ever more strongly, until we feel we're at breaking point..."This isn't working!!" and we get our signal.

You've just noticed your own...joy point right there...go for clarity, not judgment. I noticed a lot of judgment words in your posts...would you consider coming from a new place...to know, not to judge?

"So anyway, I don't have a lot of time to read all the posts here but"

To know your true power in life, words to others and yourself change..."I don't choose to take time to read all the posts here" and if you mean the whole forum and history of...oh, I'm with you! And know when you use a "but" it negates what went before...a key phrase we use to signal ourselves to self-deception.

Alanon...I strongly suggest Alanon. You've got alcohol in your life...you had it in your history, maybe? You are a partner in a relationship where you want a lot of control...feel controlled...sometimes feel victimized...Alanon was amazing for me...to get to see life as it truly is and adjust my filter, change my experience...

"I'm sure that someone here has to have posted something or a situation like this in the past. I've look in recent posts but haven't found anything."

If you're brave enough to share here...the practice will up your courage to share with your FWH, your mother, your children, which changes all your relationships. Why not post more...share more?

"I'm really trying to make the right choices for myself and my family. I just sometimes wonder why isn't anyone looking out for me?"

When I felt this, it was a signal that I honestly believed I had to be looked out for...that I was weak, done to, powerless...and it was me choosing to believe this, perceive this, which was a fantasy...because I wasn't...that gave me the abandoned, neglected, resentment life I had. You can choose differently.

"But then after thinking about this self pitty type thought there are a lot of people who care about me."

Don't step over the biggest question...Do YOU care about you? What do you do as acts of love for yourself? Do you accept, know yourself to be whole and complete...marvelously made? Separate and equal to every other human on the planet?

"One other thing. When I told my mom about my Hs EMA she hardly reacted and she still to this day acts as though my H is gold. There was never a moment where she at least approached me to say, hey are you okay? She never follow-up and when I was crying as I told her about it she didn't even hug me! I think that's an issue as well."

You have expectations and they hurt when others fail to live up to them...first, look at the expectations...a mother should...and know that shoulds, has to's aren't real...they are fantasy...reality is people change in some ways and not in others. HB nailed this one...and yes, both his heart (I could tell) hurt for you and so did mine...from our own experiences, in our own ways with our mothers...how high our expectations of others determines how far we fall...not them. Speak your stuff...respectfully, with ownership...your feelings are coming directly from wanting someone else to be or do different...which signals you to be brave and speak or do differently than before.

When you act from love, you will feel filled with it...when you act to comfort, you are comforted...when you speak honestly and share...you will be shared with...not you making anyone, just you.

This is how you know thoroughly your own human power through awareness...and the freedom of your human limits. When you embrace all of this within yourself, you'll see it better, clearly, in others...you won't be try to tear out your needs from others...you'll discover a lot of them you aren't meeting inside yourself....and when you do...you may overflow with love and feeling loved...protected...significant...lovable...because you are.

LA

Hey,

I'm working on the NOT DRINKING Thang, believe me. I realize it's equally as destructive as an EMA. I do believe that I felt entitled to the drinking because I was so injured; I don't feel this way anymore though. Now I feel it became a bad habit that has kept me stuck and has back-fired.

I'm thinking that with my mom I'm simply repeating a pattern - that is just what it is. I have always been disappointed by her lack of loving, caring response to any pain I've experienced. I do know she loves me but she's so unresponsive. This just nails it for me. I hadn't had a moment with my mom where I was disappointed in her lack of response in a while and this is just more of the same. I thought that I had put this expectation to rest a long time ago but I've done it again.

lately I've had a lot of people ask me if I care about myself. I've had to process many conversations around this and for whatever reason this just seems so strange to me - the idea of loving myself and doing loving things for myself? It doesn't seem possible. How do you do that??? I'm totally honest here, I really have a hard time wrapping my brain around this one; sounds pathetic.

There is a serious disconnect between how I see myself and how others see me. If I were to write down what was to be ME and I asked a friend/co-worker/family member to do the same you'd get some very different information. While I know this is to be expected, I really feel that I'm not real or I'm watching myself and someone is pulling my strings. I suppose this goes with the control issues.

I'm just processing right now. The issues I have are so old I honestly don't know how I could bring them up with anyone. Doing this back-fired on me a year after d-day how can I even being to think almost 4yrs later that I would get some empathetic understanding???

Sooner,

Wouldn't it be cool if you healed yourself first. You talk about taking control of your life. In fact, going to address your drinking is in fact taking control of your life.

You need to address the alcohol first, that will help other aspects of your life. Next, you need to sit down and develop a plan to address your anger and fear. You should probably come to realize that anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as: fear, pain, anxiety, frustration, etc. Focus on what is causing the anger, ie what emotion are you really feeling. Then you can begin to address it.

Even better as you become clearer in what you are feeling your H may be able to help you with alot of this. Please read the articles, and come ask questions.

It sounds as if your H loves you. It sounds as if he is trying. I KNOW he is a lousy mindreader. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So that means you need to clarify in your head what you need from him and then ask him. What you don't realize that to rebuild a marriage and survive an affair takes tremendous strength.

You have done and are doing some very admirable things. You have saved your marriage (it just needs rebuilding now) and you have faced your drinking. You seem to be a far more powerful woman than you realize.

Must go, but please do a lot of reading, ask lots of questions, and realize that your marriage can be rebuilt.

God Bless,

JL

Basically I feel like I'm fighting for my life. I have this invisible adversary trying to kill me and I'm fighting hard. It's like I'm in a race falling behind, catching up and falling behind.....


I feel like with this very issue above I've not had the validation I need. I need to hear from someone I know that what I'm doing is a good thing. Do I need a thank you? What is it I'm looking for? When will I feel good about the choices I've made. It's not so much that I am looking for anyone here to actually answer me, I'm just giving you all an idea as to what's swirling around in my head....

Thanks for your thoughts JL and everyone else.

Oh and I don't think I said why I was drinking when all this happened. I was drinking because I'm coming to terms with the fact that I can't control myself around alcohol. I wasn't 100% convinced until this final unhealthy interaction. It's like any other addiction, I relapsed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But it's okay, I'm glad I can openly say now that hey, alcohol is not okay for me and I can't consume it. I can't promise I won't back slide but I'm 100% sure this is the issue. Tonight is one of my classes for better Mind Body health and I'm very happy to be going!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />