Well it has been two weeks since I imposed NC with my WW and the other pig (OP). Talk about withdrawal, it has been an unbelievable roller coaster ride and I am trying hard, I think she is too. I would like to think that she has adhered to NC, the only time I really can't monitor this is during the day - but she is home with our 3 yr old and I am sure he would mention the OP if there was contact.
The first three days after she admitted to the A was like a whirlwind of stories about the A - actually too much to handle. The man she was with is a bus assoc of mine - actually a client who obviously manipulated her, our friendship, and used his postn of power to get what he wanted.
After she admitted to the A - I told her that I had cameras throughout our house and that seemed to propel her to come out with a lot of details. I told her I could not stomach to see the video but the PI that was taking it said he had plenty.
After a few days of listening to her come clean, I told her that I didn't have the cams bc I didn't want that to hang over our recovery. After that point in time she seemed to slip back into a sort of denial about the A.
This got to the first blow out when we decided to go out on a Sat night - five days after she came clean. She had a few drinks at dinner and the subject came up - it was obvious that this guy still had his hooks in her bc she at one point admitted she still had strong feelings for him.This pig even told her one night during one of there flings when his wife was rampedly calling at 4am that he "hated her (his wife) - but that he loved my wife" Just the mere though makes me want to kill this dog. Anyway getting back to that night - her actions were all over the place and I could tell she was major league confused - she walked out of the restaurant a few times took a walk came back two times. We were in a major city and I couldn't leave her - even though she went to the ATM and took out money for a cab. Our dinner was a complete disaster and I ended up waiting her out - it started to rain - and she reluctantly got in my car and home we went. Ironically when we got home our babysitter was reading a book about the Peterson Case and his affair that led to him killing his pregnant wife - very weird but now everything like that is very sensitive.
The next morning I was like a zombie until we ended up talking. We talked about her childhood - she being the product of an alcoholic father who kicked her mother, sister, and my wife out of their home when she was 5. A nasty divorse ensued and we both know we don't want that for our young children.
We got in touch with a well recommended MC and went to him this past Tuesday. The first session went very well with the only bad momment being when my wife lied to him and said she never had sex with the OP - even after telling me they did at least 4 times. The MC seemed unfazed bc he was way more interested in the emotional affair - the part my wife calls "just friends". I told the MC that at one point the OP had told me when I accussed them in the past that they were engaging in an EA - he said that his son was a Psych major and just did a paper on EA and said they were actually "good" for a marriage. Of course at the time I believed the OP even though I didn't feel that way (denial) and obviously our MC said that that was outright BS. An EA on any level is very destructive. Before leaving the MC I asked if it was right for me to force my wife to take one of the kids with her whenever she went out at night - to which he said that I was absolutely right that there were major trust issues. He also told my wife that under no circumstances was she to have any C with the OP.He then told us to refrain from any talk about the OP or the A that we should save it for the sessions.

We went to the diner after that and it seemed as though she was trying real hard to say that it was a good friendship - the whole denial thing on her part was trying to break out. She even made a comment "no one is going to tell me what I can and can't do" which obviously really concerns me. I told her that if we are serious that after a while of working on our marriage - she won't even think about him anymore. I am really trying to be optimistic while inside I have some doubts but it is too early yet.
Well that was last Mon, the next day went well, and on Wed we had a very big family day - I was in the local papers and honored by our city for a big deal civilian postn in our city govt. I had to make a speech and my wife was by my side very proud of me and she seemed just as nervious as I was. Our oldest son on the same day was put in his school's gifted and talented program. We ended the day going out with friends and it was a really great day. The next day was so-so. My wife has been really trying hard making dinner for the family most nights, basically under house arrest, so one of her girlfriends called her to go out to another girlfriend's house to comfort her bc she is also having marital problems with her husband - which is another story in itself. I reluctantly let her go out as long as her girlfriend picked her up and drove her home. I know that all was on up and up bc the girlfriend who picked her up is older, more responsible, and is one of the very few that know about our situation.
Well the next day really sucked. I guess it hit home to my wife that many of her past freedoms were really out the door. I ended up having to come home from work at one point bc she said she was going to "have a nervious BD" I ultimately told her that I was not laying down any rules, the simple fact is that it is about her choices. She can choose to go out - at which point I told her she would not be welcome back home. Or she could choose to work on us. It got nasty - at one point she grabbed a suitcase which was more of an idle threat. She even at one point said that she never had an A - total denial on her part. I told her that I did in fact have cams on the house and that she was full of S. I told her she better come back to earth and get a grip or she could 4get about future MC bc I was not going to waste the money. Things little by little calmed down. I went back to work. When I came home she started playing a few mind games with me and I literally had my own breakdown. That was the first time I think she really realized how upset and hurt I was. I left her to sleep on the couch that night - something I never done in the past.
Since then things have been going rather well. Sat night we eneded up going to my sis 50th bday party - believe it or not we ended up having sex in her bathroom like 2 teenagers. It seemed that the MC told us to try new and different things in our sex life and she seemed to go for that advice. When we got home later that night we had round 2 as well. Sun was a good day, as was Mon, and today as well.
Tomorrow she is going to the MC alone. The MC requested that and I think it is a good idea - I am just not so sure how she is going to play it out with him. He seems like an incredibly bright guy - one who has seen thing a million times, so I am confident he will see through any BS she shovels at him.
I am a little confused at this point as well - could we really be on the road to recovery this fast? Or is this all just a mirage like all the manipulations of the past. I really just don't know what to think. I am definitely trying to stay positive, even our MC believes that our prognosis is good. I still haven't confronted the OP to let him know that I know about the A. Things have been very quiet on that front. I know I have to face him, I just can't seem to stomach doing it right now - at least until these thoughts of killing him die down. I atually though of trying to confront him and try and drive him out of town. We do actually have a full scale scandal on our hands if I ever confronted his bosses with this - I could take it to the point where he would actually be disgraced and possibly be forced to quit his job and inturn he would loose his contracting side business - who would hire someone that could possibly go after your wife - like he did mine, and how many other guys before me? So I did think about confronting him with this scenerio - I just don't know if there would be a downside on my end - it could possibly blow up in my face and I could actually be forced to leave town in embarassment.
I thank you all for your time in reading this - any advise would be appreciated.

It's really early to tell, but hopefully she is having no contact, which is all that really matters right now. Have you exposed the affair to his wife?

I wouldn't count on that ... a 3yo is not a reliable source of such info.

No I have not exposed yet. I have evidence and I have time. I am going direct this to my MC to see what he says. The situation is quite complicated. This guy is highly manipulative but at the same time even my wife gave me some key info that would definitely get his wife knocking his head in. As I mentioned - the 4am story. His wife called him several times that night - he used his best friend as a cover.
I am really concerned about what this guy is capable of if I expose. I know he will be in deep S&%t, it may even break his family apart - but I worry about my business. He is quite a powerful and coersive guy in town. Even with proof on my side I worry if I don't do things in such a way - it all could backfire in my face. I also belong to a family business - only one family member, my brother, who is also my partner, knows about the A. I am afraid that if I exposed this pig - he will turn around and do something to ruin our good business relationship with this client and then the rest of my family will find out - put my wife on the outs - and could really make our marriage repair difficult if not impossible. This pig really knew what he was doing - he not only manipulated me and my wife, he also was covering tracks along the way and has too many friends in high places to get hurt - in his mind.

He told me a month ago that he was looking for property down south - I guess for his retirement. My plan would be to confront him directly and give him a six month window to get out of town. After six months I would go to his bosses and tell them that they are looking at an unbelievable scandal - one of which they are more than likely not in a postn to handle. They are a major public entity that in the past year has had their share of really bad stories. This pig in fact was just investigated by the FBI for something that he got over on - but is guilty of. That is how powerful this guy things he is, but I know the truth, although I also know it is heresay as he told me things at my house back in the day when he was bamboozaling me and screwing my wife at the same time. I have other info as well besides the A with my wife.
As for my wife with NC - your right about my baby boy. In fact today she said she was driving around bc he fell asleep in the car - she could have easily drove by his worksite, who knows? She does know that we live in a small town and if she does have C that I will throw her out of the house. Is that more powerful than her fix? I don't know. I still would like to think that NC has been made. If my son was awake and seen this guy he would definitely tell me as this guy even made his way into his world and my son always told me whenever he seen his "friend". This guy is a very dangerious player. I need to formulate a good rock solid game plan that is just short of murder. Ever time I think about how he clawed his way into our lives - that I gave him the open door into our perfectly happy home - I just want to see some sort of Karma kick in. My best friend knows about our situation and he als o thinks I should confront his wife as well to make sure that he doesn't do it again to someone else - which he definitely will. I even thought of hiring a PI just to track him but as he told my wife already - "no one would ever have a PI on me - I move around too much and it would be too costly"
He even set up the A is such a way that my wife always initiated C with him - this way if the thing blew up he could always claim that she was the crazy one stalking him. As me and my wife discussed a lot of their relationship I think she came to realize that she was played a lot more than she thinks. I just can't get over her denial at times. She knows that now the A is exposed it will never be what it was - yet he seems to have this hook in her. Like I said though - I do believe in my heart that NC has been made. At night now she is always home and when she goes out - she has one of the kids. The topic has not come up between us since Fri, yet this does not mean I know where her head is at. You guys are really right, this is like an addiction. I do know what you are getting at though - if I exposed to the BS then I would be assured it would be over - but at what cost? I should at the very least confront him and tell him I know though. I am just thinking of the right thing to say, I wonder if it is realistic of me to sort of blackmail him into leaving town....

So tell me why you don't have cameras installed in your house?

Or have a friend stop in...without warning?

Why do you say you put NC in place? She does that by choice...you can't put it in place. You can check up on her in a myriad of ways...still her choosing NC.

Her fog doesn't instantly disappear with NC, btw. Fog is generated by a wayward state of mind...entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. Your part is to look inside at these areas within yourself...and to talk about what you find...what you believe, perceive...feel.

Mostly, to live from respect right now...where you hear what she's saying by listening and repeating. Handing back her words, like about the friendship, "I hear you saying that being intimate with your thoughts and feelings with a man other than your husband is a good thing for our marriage, is that correct?"

Listen and repeat...to confirm and clarify. To respect her stuff as hers...not The Truth...her truth. And know your own. You don't have to refute or persuade her...or tell her she's wrong. As the fog lifts, you'll get your real wife back...unless you try to dominate her, change her stuff...tell her she's wrong.

From entitlement comes justifications...they don't make sense...they FEEL right...false beliefs give us false feelings...they don't last. I share this with you so you don't fall prey to your own...you can't control hers. Control is an issue for her. May be for you. Respect her stuff...respect your own.

Focus on your own, too.

It's yours.

Sounds like you have a strong MC...what part of "don't discuss the A or OP unless it's in the session" didn't you understand? When she brings either up, respectfully say, "I choose to trust MC at this point, because I'm lost in how to handle recovery. If you choose to discuss the A or OP, I'll have to remove myself for ten minutes to settle my emotions down. I choose not to talk about the A or OP (and be sure you're calling this OM by his last name, not his first) outside of MC right now. I believe I'll get to where I can, outside of MC, after I learn more."

I hope highlighting these statements help you:

" She even made a comment "no one is going to tell me what I can and can't do" which obviously really concerns me."

Would you place your concern where it counts? She feels like she's being told what to do...that others control her. Focus on that...find out the root of it. Go for knowing, not judging. Stay present.

"I told her that if we are serious that after a while of working on our marriage - she won't even think about him anymore."

Do you want to prove her false justifications? Own your stuff..."My hope is that through months of recovery, you won't think about him anymore. I feel pain knowing you replaced me with him in your thoughts, your heart."

Calmly, firmly, respectfully. State your stuff. Own it. Stop choosing to react and act instead.

You're in a whole world of hurt...from her betrayal and your own...our denial is our betrayal, too. Choose to not betray yourself. We do this through ownership.

She has to go through withdrawal...it's a really tough time on BS's...mourning the loss of a fantasy...be patient, respectful...and you'll get to where real recovery begins...after withdrawal.

You can do this.

Get to know that you don't "let" or "allow" or "stop" what isn't yours...she honors you by asking permission...still doesn't give you the actual power...she chooses. And learn who is a friend of your marriage...not her girlfriends because they like her...there's three parts to marriage...you, her and the marriage. A friend of the marriage supports the marriage...honors marital boundaries and doesn't condone or support attacks on it...like adultery, degrading one or the other partners. Real friends call their friends on their stuff.

Get to know her girlfriends directly...together. Talk with each other about friends of the marriage...this was a totally new concept to me and my DH.

"She can choose to go out - at which point I told her she would not be welcome back home. Or she could choose to work on us."

Whoa.

You're saying if she chose to go somewhere, not make contact, you would ask her to leave? Really? That's a boundary you're enforcing? What if she could document where she was, what she was doing...be transparent? Would that cross that boundary?

Do you know the difference between an ultimatum and a boundary enforcement?

"at one point she grabbed a suitcase which was more of an idle threat." This is a DJ...have you read up on Love Busters (LBs)?

"She even at one point said that she never had an A - total denial on her part."

Had you listened and repeated what she said, you might have heard, "No, I said I wish I'd never had an A." or "It wasn't an A, it was love."

Fog says strange stuff...trying to impose logic or honesty to it isn't logical...took a lot of self-deception to choose to have an A...made it look like the right, good choice...if you battle her about The Truth, then you refute your own.

"I told her that I did in fact have cams on the house and that she was full of S."

That's abusive...telling anyone they are full of S degrades and abuses them.

"I told her she better come back to earth and get a grip or she could 4get about future MC bc I was not going to waste the money."

Ohmygosh...do you want to save your marriage or punish her into feeling as much pain as you feel right now? Trust me, her pain is real...and if you can't be clear on your intent, your goal, why are you expecting her to be?

"Things little by little calmed down. I went back to work. When I came home she started playing a few mind games with me and I literally had my own breakdown. That was the first time I think she really realized how upset and hurt I was."

Which says that you weren't being open and honest with her, yet you were requiring her to be with you. Human rule is: You can't enforce a boundary when you don't hold yourself to the same standard.

Be brave and breakdown...speak of your pain, your sorrow, disbelief, denial, anger, fear and resentment. Don't demonstrate it through abuse...state it, own it; that's honesty. That's openness. That's intimacy.

"I left her to sleep on the couch that night - something I never done in the past."

I'm not clear here...are you saying she chose to sleep on the couch, which she didn't do before...or that you told her to sleep on the couch? Or before, you talked her out of it?

"Since then things have been going rather well. Sat night we eneded up going to my sis 50th bday party - believe it or not we ended up having sex in her bathroom like 2 teenagers. It seemed that the MC told us to try new and different things in our sex life and she seemed to go for that advice. When we got home later that night we had round 2 as well. Sun was a good day, as was Mon, and today as well.

Tomorrow she is going to the MC alone. The MC requested that and I think it is a good idea - I am just not so sure how she is going to play it out with him. He seems like an incredibly bright guy - one who has seen thing a million times, so I am confident he will see through any BS she shovels at him."

Focus on you, not on her...when you reach for conjecture, you're reaching for false comfort...beware, it's cousin is denial. Realize there's a lot you can't and don't know...and trust you will know, when you're shared with. That will help you in choosing to share...to know and be known...instead of assume or mindread.

Also, another way to DJ is to interpret moods, feelings, her stuff...without really knowing...by reading her...and judging better, good or bad days, moods...that stuff. It goes against honest communication. Hurts you and it hurts your marriage.

"I am a little confused at this point as well - could we really be on the road to recovery this fast? Or is this all just a mirage like all the manipulations of the past."

Did you read Surviving An Affair? Has timelines and great info in it...no, you're not to recovery yet. That comes after withdrawal. Your being honest may seem like a turning point...your breakdown...it can turn back. Stay honest, open, use "I" statements, listen and repeat.

"I really just don't know what to think."

That usually signals you're looking at her, focusing on her, not on you. You have two recoveries...your marital one and your personal one. Get to work on your personal recovery.

"I am definitely trying to stay positive, even our MC believes that our prognosis is good. I still haven't confronted the OP to let him know that I know about the A."

Ask your WW to write a No Contact letter...do a search here for them to have a model. Make sure you read and approve...and mail it together.

"Things have been very quiet on that front. I know I have to face him, I just can't seem to stomach doing it right now - at least until these thoughts of killing him die down."

Do NOT face him...get rid of him as a client...NC is for BOTH of you, for life.

"I atually though of trying to confront him and try and drive him out of town. We do actually have a full scale scandal on our hands if I ever confronted his bosses with this - I could take it to the point where he would actually be disgraced and possibly be forced to quit his job and inturn he would loose his contracting side business - who would hire someone that could possibly go after your wife - like he did mine, and how many other guys before me? So I did think about confronting him with this scenerio - I just don't know if there would be a downside on my end - it could possibly blow up in my face and I could actually be forced to leave town in embarassment."

When you choose to act based on possible response, you are a slave to conjecture and other people. When you choose to act based on your code...your standards and boundaries...you are free man. Is this OP married? Expose to his wife...stating and sharing truth is really important...when you don't do that, then you are a co-conspirators, aren't you, in an A? You help keep it in the dark, where it grew.

I have no doubt your marriage can recover...that you can recover...please read a lot of books...Harley's are great...to gain a new picture of how partnership works...and not parenting in your marriage. Grow yourself...we do so through great trauma, sometimes...and in the end, it can make the horrific pain worth it...waaaay down the line.

You can do this. I'm not bashing you or telling you're wrong in how you feel, think, believe...I'm asking you to not verbally or emotionally abuse...because that's not who you really are. Know what you do...you didn't make her choose to have an A...you aren't that powerful...no one is...and her A was really only about her, her issues...not you. Take this opportunity to get to your highest honesty inside...like you did with the denial...seeing where you may attempt to protect yourself and end up hurting yourself in reality.

You can up your sessions, if you choose. Where you see MC for an individual session and so does she, same week. Then together for one...see what you can do. You need the support, the guidance, the attention...and sounds like you've picked a great MC. Kudos for that!

And going to MC doesn't mean recommitment to the marriage...my DH agreed and went to MC with me to decide if he would choose the marriage or OW. I'm grateful he went. Our MC said the same thing...any contact with OW continues the fog...that my WH couldn't make a clear, honest decision if he continued to allow OW's influence. WH listened to him...and I'm blessed.

You're not alone.

Welcome.

LA

Thanks a lot! I will have to read your post about 20 or 30 times for all to sink in. Your right my mind and judgement is so clouded right now. Some of the things I posted here were very emotional feelings - I am not sure I was every abusive like telling her she is full of s&^t. I am never that abusive to her emotionally because I am afraid she really is going to lose it - she does have issues from her past. To a degree you have made me realize that I have issues to - partly from this experiance and I guess partly from life. Thanks for the advice.
I am sorry though loseing that business is not an option - for my family's welfare. I do have partners that I have handed the account to so I am out of it. This guy is in town and I know deep down I can not avoid him - nor can she, it is bound to happen where one of us, if not both will eventually bump into him.
About the exposure to his wife, how should I best go about this w/o it backfiring in my face - what if she is (for lack of a better term) stupid and refuses to believe me - I feel like I may just be upsetting the hornet's nest. This guy is definitely going to go after me with a vengence and he is a powerful guy - it may make living in town ******. Yes I am afraid and I also do not know what this guy is capable of - he knows a lot of very bad people as well. Deep down this really could have been any other Joe, but my wife got caught up with the wrong guy here and I am scared.

Thanks again!

I guess in light of what I wrote last night about being afraid to expose to the OM wife - can anyone tell me their experiances with exposure. I feel as though I want to do this but I need to know the downside, as well as the upside. Is it possible that she will take his side? - attack my wife? - set us back on our road to recovery?

Does anyone have any real bad stories. I keep running this through my mind over and over again and I just don't see where I stand to benefit.

I most likely won't do anything until I consult with our MC this Sat as I have a private session set up. My wife went tonight and I am definitely laying off her, regarding any questions I may have. The only thing she told me is that we are going to be just fine. Do I really want to start stirring up this pot by exposure. It is also not in my nature to destroy another family - regardless of how I feel about the "other pig".