Noodle

In order to respect MEDC's space, I will answer this here rather than on his thread.


No, that was a bad way to start that sentence because no one really can force anyone to change their opinion.


I disagree with your disagreement - so there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I believe that hate speech is more than just expressing your opinion. It has galvanized people to do terrible things and is recognized more and more as a crime. Just calling someone a name isn't hate speech, of course, nor is just being rude. But, words can and do amount to more than just expressions of opinion.


Again, we agree. The only people on this board that can actively enforce standards are the moderators.


There are standards for this board - they are in the TOS.


I do believe that every user of this board has a resonable expectation that those terms will be followed and are tacitly agreed to be the Standards of the board. I certainly have the expectation that those standards will be followed.

Posting your opinion about a topic that disagrees with another poster is very different than posting "vulgar, hateful, obscene ... etc" opinions about another poster.


Yes, I would say it is.

I define productive pretty loosely as:

1.) not involving a circular discussion between me and another poster (I don't mind if other people want to go in circles)

2.) not advocating or suggesting violence, suicide, dishonest, or breaking any laws.

3.) not calling people names

The first one is my personal preference - the other two I reasonably expect to happen because those are the terms everyone here agreed to when they signed up to post. I believe those rules are there for the purpose of furthering a productive discussion.


I do report posts to moderators that I find violate the TOS. I will often post that I've reported the post and why on the thread in question. (I've reported very few threads/posts -- probably less than 10 the entire time I've been here.)

I would disagree that I discourage contradicting agendas -- I don't know that I've ever asked anyone not to post before though I have asked someone not to post to ME. I'm not even sure I did that -- I might have just said I wasn't going to post back to him (I'm not referring to MEDC, by the way).


I do judge things to my standard -- but I also hold to the standard and reasonable expectations of this board. I do not hold myself to be the final aribiter of the standard on the board -- that's what moderators are for.


Yes. Though, as I've mentioned, I do think it's a reasonable expectation to believe everyone agrees to the TOS standard.


I find it more interesting to have discussions with the not-like minded - provided it doesn't degenerate into a grudge fest.


Yes. Speech does not have to be manipulative, though. And, not all manipulation is bad. For example, trying to help someone feel better is manipulative -- in a good way.

Mys

But, words can and do amount to more than just expressions of opinion.


I have never...ever found this to be true.

Let's use the example of a BS trying their [email]d@mndest[/email] to force their morality abusively down the OPs throat.

99% of the time you are gonna hear crickets. The OP is not invested in your opinion. They just don't care if you think they are a wh*re or not.

I have even heard a person say scoffingly..."what are you going to do, throw some words at them?"

As for the TOS agreements...well now those are very VAGUE really aren't they?

They leave it up to the judgement of the moderator.

So no name calling isn't a hard and fast rule...but one mod might take issue with [email]b@astard[/email] and not hobgoblin [or ratturd as the case may be].

Alien also gets a pass.

Hate speech...subjective.

Vulgar, abusive, harrassing...all very subjective.

Illegal being the only one that is really relatively OBJECTIVE...and strangely the least well protected.

I may have to recant that last bit...but I know that these posts have been used for very questionable purposes that seem not to be legal...there may be a loophole...MB may be taking sme action I'm not aware of...end disclaimer.

I also think that manipulation is a neutral term...but regardless of the intent or the reaction [good feelings or bad feelings] manipulation is what it is.

Oh also...

The impression I am getting from this post [and just your posting style in general] is that you are happy to disagree on issues provided you can agree on discussion format.

For example...if their reaction to disagreement is to punch you in the nose while calling you names...that'd be a no go.

Pretty much the polar opposite of MEDC..no suprise you two don't mesh well.

All right. I still don't agree with you but I'm not really invested in changing your mind about it.


Yes, and we all tacitly agree to abide by their decisions.

True. Too much of it goes on in my opinion but it does seem to be part of the culture around here. Though, obviously it is enforced on occasion -- we have seen editing done. There are other boards that are more consistent with their moderation techniques than this one. I don't hesitate to report what I consider to be violations if they bother me enough.
Disagreement aside, I don't care to be punched in the nose! It's not like I'd enjoy being punched if someone did agree with me.

I think you have the right idea, though. I don't mind the disagreement/agreement. I don't like being punched in the nose.

Generally, I come to discussion boards for -- discussion. I happen to like different opinions because I don't find it particualrly stimulating to read a bunch of "me too!" "me too!" posts all the time.


Oh, I probably shoudn't put words in his mouth but somehow I think MEDC would object to being punched in the nose, as well.

Mys