FTS,

I thought it best to create a new thread. I suspect others are going to post and did not want to interfere with Deeply Torn's thread.



I am sorry you too have found yourself in this situation.



Reasonable.



Well I am glad he decided to try and work things out.
I will not comment on the trigger part, I will take your word for it.



I don't have much to say about how OW feels about her "dream child", I do have comments about the stealing comment.
Your H, like me created an expense. Children MUST be taken care of an not be finacilly abandond. I know first hand that CS can be setup in a way that is UNFAIR. There are many example here, but some level of support must be given.

Don't take this as a defence of OW, but an acknowledgement of H's part in this mess. He, like I, have blame to bare. Unfortanly, the liability also spreads to the W and COM's.

I will disagree that OW alone is responsible for OC. For him it is just as much his as it is OW's child and he shares responsibility in that.




I agree.



Nothing wrong with telling the truth. I to will have to answer for what I have done.
However, Your H IS responsible for the outcome of OC just like he is any of the other children.
To walk away from that responsibility makes him a "deadbeat" like any other father that walks away.

There are circumstanses that make it impossable, but attempt should be made.
This however would not apply if OW is married and her H is willing to work things out. Diferent set of rules.



Yes it is devastating to all partys.

Children are children no matter how they got here. The shame of the parents acts should not be transferd to the child. I know it is hard to accept (and maybe you never will), But the OC is the child of your H and the brother or sister to your children that you had with your H.



I do not belive that a W should be forced to have contact with OW or OC if that is her chioce. She is ENTITLED to that choice. At the same time, it is ALSO unreasnable to expect (DEMAND) that a father walk out on his child finacialy and emotionaly.

Some will say that the M comes first, I belive that to applies when both parties are in agreement about continuing the M. But it is not wrong for a man to feel for his children. ALL OF THEM!


In a case where thier is disagrance, then with the expeirance I have went thru, I would sugest a cooling off period
so that focus can be given to the M. If after 6 months to a year or focusing on the M, the H still wants contact and the W will not, then I would question wether the M should continue.

At that point, a decision could be made with a clear mind.


I can name ten off the top of my head. Many post on this very board.



I don't disagree with you entirerly on this. The OC is innocent, but the "primary concern" part you have a point.
Basic needs of OC should be met, then focus on the M.


TH

Oh man TH, just when we were on at least a 3 month run of peacefulness around here......

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Those are some good points TH.

LOL, AD you took the words right out of my mouth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

NC/C should be a POJA issue in my opinion. OW does not factor into this decision but the OC does deserve financial support at the very least. I believe every couple has the right to decide C or NC. It is a very difficult situation all the way around.

FTS, it sounds as though you are still hurting. How is your M recovering?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That was funny.

Great points made though!!!! Great points

TH I browsed some of your former printing and know that I could let loose with hurtful and mean things. That is not what this is about. Circumstances dictate to all of us.
Yes Faithful, I'm still hurting. I have my good days. Work is great because you can't think about yourself and so you find a week goes by an you can actually laugh and have fun. Then another letter shows up reminding you what a failure your past has been. What you thought you were working on for your children, family and future together wasn't real. It has been tainted by images that overlap. You rememer the vacation you took in autumn with the family only to now know that OW was pregnant and calling everytime you and WS were apart. Whatever good times you thought you were having and building go up in smoke. You can't speak to anyone about the A without falling apart. We moved because I didn't want her showing up on my door with my children. WE decided it was best for our kids not to know. One is 9 and one is 18. Only ten people in the State I left knew about the A. No one here knows about it.
I find it very hard to have any respect for myself for staying in the M. I love my H. We are starting to do well most of the time. But I spent time on antidepressants and was very close to ending it 6 months after discovery. My children were the only reason I didn't. I also ended up with one of the cervical cancer strains of HPV that the OW passed on to my H. My PAP has finally returned to normal, but I still have to go every three months.
I never believed that this man was capable of such coldhearted cruelty. There are many men out there that I wouldn't doubt that behavior from, FWS wasn't one of them. My confidence in my ability to trust people is gone. I will never trust another person do be decent or honest. Every interaction is a new test.
I am not against him having to provide REASONABLE support. But she tagged on an extra $480 a month in daycare expense above the calculated support, she is not using because she won't work. She showed the courts a paper saying she started the day before as a temp. worker for $8/hr so she could ask for the daycare costs. (An Extra $24,000 before CS can be recalculated).
WH is NOT a deadbeat dad. He is paying the money. OW didn't want C.

The couselor we saw tried to convince us that OC deserved C. WS can have all the contact he wants with OC or with COM, his choice. COM do not have unknown siblings. Siblings grow up with you and share the same experiences, vacations, bad teachers, house rules. Our society has forced some of them to grow up only sharing half of those. The worst thing for my oldest son was to maintain contact. A single home, single set of values is were we get our values base. Just because genetics are partially the same does not make people family. I do not believe that blood is more important. I believe that heart, respect and caring from sharing similar family experiences are.
I am not a saint, I can not have the OC in my life and NEVER the OW. I would never have done this to my H. (I know every one is capable of it) I AM NOT. I believe in my heart and gut that you do not start something knew until you have finished with the old. I do not believe you get something in the wings to flee to when you end the old.
TH do not preach to me from your point. You were capagble of intentionally doing the most destructive thing in the world to the person you vowed to protect and cherise. You did it, you additionally put her health at risk for your enjoyment, you put your children's emotional well-being at risk, you add injury to insult by having another family with the OW and trivializing your family and there importance by wanting to bring the HO's ****** (My apologies but according to Webster this is the correct term) into your children's life as though this is something normal and anyone who can't see that has a problem. Those of us who cannot bear contact think you are WRONG!!
Sorry, I got a little emotional there again. For those of you that have circumstances and the heart to be able to make C work, I applaude you, but I can't.

>but I can't.

It's okay.

C/NC is a personal husband/wife choice.

I know the words are too small to make much of an impact on your feelings right now, but it WILL get better.


((((((((FTS))))))))

{{{FTS}}}

Good to get you talking about this, it helps the healing process. I want you to try to look at this from another perspective ok? IT is easier to quit. You took the hard road, the road paved with respect by working things out with your H. I am not saying that those the choose D are wrong, I am saying that staying with someone who doubly betrayed you is HARD. My friend Kimmy who just posted to you has TWO OC in her life. You know what? She is happily recovering. It can be done. The contact or no contact is your choice. As much as I have wanted a chance to love on the OC, the longer this crap by OW goes on the more I see NC as the only way to go for me as well. This concerns me. Don't the courts require her to provide proof of daycare expenses? How is she managing to do this? Do you have a good attorney? Sorry I was not accusing your H of being a deadbeat, just meant to convey that OC (not the OW) deserves the support as they didn't choose the circumstances of their birth.

I am so sorry about the HPV. Getting an STD from your spouse is shocking and extremely hurtful.

I was a WS in my M at one point. No one would have ever thought I was capable of it either. I have turned myself inside out and upside examining the why's of it all. I can tell you with all honesty that I am not that person any more. What is important is for your FWH to know the why's and place strict boundaries on himself and to EARN your trust back. No you will never implicitly trust again but you can and should trust. I hope you are getting some help for yourself as well as the marriage.

God bless you.

FTS,


Yes I have a past, yes I wish I could change it. But now all I can do is own it.


I know. It was difficult for me to own up to what I did to my W. I hope your H is quicker at it than I was.



Like I said above, it CAN BE UNFAIR.



I don't expect you will change your position anytime soom if ever. It not difficult for me to read that you have been put thru the ringer. I won't even pretend I understand how deep the pain goes.

But as far as what the OW wants, who cares???????


My experiance with coudelors was pretty rotten as well.

Is your H currently out of the fog?
Has he been doing everything he can to show you Love and Affection? Has he expressed how sorry he is for what he has done?



I will admit that my life experiance has influenced how I feel about some of these subjects. I don't know what all of your experiances were that bring you to your conclusions.


Well, I am by far not a saint myself. All we can do is try to soften our hearts and move on.



Yes, I am guilty of all of that. I heaped great amounts of pain on my family. Even after DDAY, I was to blind and unskilled to try and turn things around.

It took the help of some books and VERY special people on this board to help me see the right way to do things. Even then there were many times I failed.

I sure there will be times I will fail again to be the H my W needs me to be. But I will not give up, I will continue to try to learn to be the H that my W needs me to be.

I love her with all my heart, and it kills me inside to know what I did to her.


Feel free to yell at me anytime.
TH has got a pretty thick skin. :-)

I wish you the best,
TH

Lovely post, TH. TFS, as you can see we all have different experiences we bring to the table. That is the beauty of these posts. Keep posting.

Faithful,
We had a very good attorney. The courts don't care. The state does not want to support this child. She showed a hand written receipt from a friend saying she was charging $120 per week daycare. She showed a piece of paper saying she had been hired by a temp agency the day before. This OW had not held a job since before she became pregnant. The child is two now. The courts have assigned an order and do not want to be bothered for at least four more years. She received two rental properties from her XH, one to live in one to rent. She can afford to live off the child support for the next sixteen years.

We are working on this together. The last six months with moving and all it involves has also taken a lot emotionally. It's hard when everything is great. I know that I can not do the C. I also know that there is agreat deal of fear that at sometime in the future my FWH could feel the loss of OC and leave me and mine because of it. I will never be free of that fear either.

TH,

I'm sorry for that attack. It is very difficult not to respond when any of those arguements come up. For me, he disregarded me and everyone I love for fifteen minutes in the sack. Thought if noone knows, what the hay. He has true remorse and like you claims to regret that for the rest of his life, the pain it caused and what he saw it do to me. It doesn't undo it though. It doesn't make us believe or trust. Somedays it is hard to breathe. I would love nothing better to go back to oblivion believing I was married to the most incredible man in existence. Not one without problems, but one who loved me, and wouldn't "intentionally" hurt me, our children, or the rest of those who care about us.
Thank you for having thick skin!!

TH, I don't come on this board much at all as my FWH had an A, but no OC was produced.

I just want to say to you and all of the others in this sitch, God Bless You. I really, really don't know how I would handle this one. I just really think that all of you who stay with your spouses in this situation are truly SAINTS.

Best of Luck.

Dear Fled,

you said:



Due to my recent personal experience with this very issue ... I must say I 100% agree with you

A half-brother of mine recently found out his mother lied to him for 62 years about who his father was.

This now 62 year old man introduced himself to me and my siblings (that' fine) .. but was insisting that we are now brother & sister ... and although I was willing to consider a friendship that would evolve by getting to know each other ... he pushed and pushed and PUSHED to the point of obsession ... and I had to tell him to leave me alone ....

you are correct

siblings are who you grow up with

Pep

Thank you Pep,

Not all agree with that. I think it is very personal, that it must effect you in some manner to really underrstand the difference.

Hanging in there and getting better "most" of the time

FTS

My Dad did not make an OC

he was married to her (WWII time)
while he was deployed, she moved in with OM

when Dad returned, she said OM was the father, not my Dad

they annuled
birth certificate did not name my Dad as the father

she lied for decades

it's that thing called THE TRUTH that bites ... even after 60+ years !!!

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

TH, I actually agree with some of what you wrote in your first thread, but I do find a problem with this portion...as I'm sure that you already know.

TH, a father who walks away from an OC is NOT a deadbeat as long as he handles his financial responsibility, and if he is a deadbeat to the OC, he was already a deadbeat to the COMs because he walked away from them too and created another life with another woman, and you can't walk back from that. Every minute, every second, every milisecond spent with the OC is time that he stole from his COMs...I believe that.

What irritates me with the form of thinking that a man who goes NC is a "deadbeat", is that you can now find the time and the compassion to think about the OC, but never, not once when sleeping with the OW did any of the MM have that same compassion or time to think of the COMs. The MM walked right out of their lives and didn't even look back once, you showed them a form of NC, and didn't give a damn, now a BS is supposed to bend over backwards and have some compassion for a child that is not hers, created out of disrespect to her and her children...and they are supposed to understand the bond between father and child? Where was that bond with her children....

I guess my point is...why argue the point now that the OC is a child and deserves your attention and anything less makes you less than a man, when the COMs weren't worth that same argument during the affair?

In my opinion a "deadbeat" doesn't pay his responsibility...I agree that he owes financially (I still have problems with the CS laws, but that's another discussion), but beyond that every other moment that he has belongs to his COMs and his wife...that is the true price the MM pays for having a child outside of his marriage...the price he pays for himself and the price he makes his OC pay. Here is my example: If you belong to A company and you give your services to B company and they prosper, too bad, you are contracted to A and had no business at B...your loss.

Just FYI...I have not read the whole thread...I didn't get past your post TH...:D

CH I think that is just a matter of opinion depending onwhere you are mentally with this. I do agree that if they are not there they are deadbeat. No matter how the child gets here. 'Example.........my xh has always paid cs. Up until he moved in with his gf he was neverconsistant with our com. Breaking promises to them and then making stupid excuses why he won't come get them or spend time with them. He was a dead beat father.

Although him and his gf drive me crazy I am so thankful that he has stable visation with them and has taken a bigger role in there life. They know he lies and breaks his promises (in different ways now) but they love there dad and the sun and moon falls with him and for that I am very very thankful.

My biggest fear is that they will break up (again as much as they drive me crazy) and he will go back to the ole daddy he was. I know that it's easier for him cause he has her to watch them and tell them what to do and care for them, but at least he is there for the most part for them to see his face. Kwim?

Again though I believe the whole dead beat father thing is a matter of opinion with what has happend to you in your life and where you are mentally. JMHO.

Hello CH,


I don't buy that! I can buy it about OW, not OC.
When it comes to my children, they are all equal.


No, the BS is NOT OBLIGATED to feel or do anything. It is a choice. The father how ever does have obligations that go beyond just money. Just because a man is married, does not give him a free pass to skip out on all of his duties.

I reliaze I can't do all things I would like to for my daughter as I will for my son's. It does not mean however that I should not try. Many a divorced father is in the same boat. Many try hard to show love and support to children they do not live with.

I don't buy the theroy that somehow OC are less than other children. Children are children and I will take care of mine.


Well CH, the BOND must have been strong with my family. We are still togther. Many may wonder why, but we are. I love my W very much. I am lucky to have her.

To me the relationship between father and child starts as responsibilties. It later grows to a bond. Again, I don't expect a BS to care or not. But I as a father have a duty and obligation to keep. All of my children are mine equal.

A father may feel he has to be NC to save his marriage. But in IMHO, he has failed one of his children. He has to live that down in addition to his adulterous behaviour.

TH